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Taser Use

Is using a taser to arrest a noncoperative but nonviolent person "excessive force"

  • Total voters
    50
Redress said:
Actually you replied to it: cop wants to come into my house without a warant and I refuse.
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Oh ok....no one is going to tase you for refusing to let them in with no warrant..UNLESS...they believe there is a crime in progress inside your home...
 
lpast said:
Of course no argument...the end result the final decision is made in court. Redress if we could know how many tasers are used in a 24 hour period across the entire country in every state...I think you would realize that cases that get to court a miniscule compared to the whole picture. People form opinions of police where they live...Police do not operate the same in every state every town...and what you read in the paper like this case...is a drop in the bucket compared to all that happens all over the country...the sheer amount of arrests..and incidents..
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I am not arguing that point and you are absolutely correct that almost every time some one is tased by the police, it is justified and legal. That does not change the fact that there are times when it is not justified and legal.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I understand where the attitude comes from. You spend your days dealing with bull**** and idiots, much of the public thinks you're a piece of crap, you have to deal with your own personal life, you aren't getting paid a whole lot and you have to balance all the other annoying and dangerous stuff that comes with the job. It's easy to understand, but understanding doesn't amount to me thinking that it's okay.
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No your wrong...most of the public treat us very well and understand...its societies dirtbags and criminals and idiots that have a big problem with any authority at all that are our problem
 
lpast said:
Sure you do...no argument, then the cop gets to decide to ask you come to the precinct and if you refuse he can arrest you IF the situation merits that action...were doing a hypothetical thing here
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aye.... I guess i'm weird in that I don't care about being arrested and taken down to the precinct, it's never bothered me.
some folks are more apt to simply comply in order to get out of being arrested...I just do my thing, do what's required of me, and that's it... if i'm arrested, i look forward to getting in front of the judge.

I much prefer dealing with street cops than CO's though...i've never met a CO that wasn't a complete asshole.
 
Thrilla said:
you sound like the very type of cop I dislike.... always on a power trip.
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Did I say something that made you think I cared what you like thrilla ?....you have an obvious cop problem that you have displayed in more than a couple of threads...just know this...you would come along like everyone else thats placed under arrest :)
 
Poll results are interesting. 3 people for each option.
 
Redress said:
Poll results are interesting. 3 people for each option.
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Its always split...in the end it doesnt matter if tasers are gone or not...more people will get hurt in the process is all...thats my opinion
 
lizzie said:
If you spent any time working the streets, you'd understand exactly where that attitude comes from. Frankly, I'd rather have an alpha male for a cop than a criminal, any day of the week. Being a cop (or paramedic/firefighter), you deal with the very worst of humanity. My hat's off to anyone who can put up with it as a career.
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nothing wrong with being an alpha male on the job... but professionalism and good judgement should come before the whole " obey my authoritaaay or else" schtick.
 
lpast said:
Its always split...in the end it doesnt matter if tasers are gone or not...more people will get hurt in the process is all...thats my opinion
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I do not think any one is trying to get tasers taken away from police. They are clearly a useful tool.
 
RadicalModerate said:
No, cops are people of many people's hatred because there are personalities out there who instinctively fight all authority, legit or not.
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If that's what you choose to believe, but it's not based in reality. A lot of people hate cops because too many of them do abuse their power. I don't hate cops, but I don't care for too many of them that I've had to deal with in the past, either. First off, a person doesn't come into my house without permission, especially doesn't tell me to "shut the **** up" in my home, and nobody harasses my family for any reason. I personally don't care about their badge, or their uniform. A mother ****er will respect my home, and my family. Especially when they have no permission to be there. These local cops here don't understand that, and that's why issues arise, and it's why the people here hate them, because they act like a little piece of shiny metal magically makes them demigods.

I don't blame all cops, I know there's good ones out there, and they do a hard job, but the ones with the attitudes are a huge problem.
 
Thrilla said:
aye.... I guess i'm weird in that I don't care about being arrested and taken down to the precinct, it's never bothered me.
some folks are more apt to simply comply in order to get out of being arrested...I just do my thing, do what's required of me, and that's it... if i'm arrested, i look forward to getting in front of the judge.

I much prefer dealing with street cops than CO's though...i've never met a CO that wasn't a complete asshole.
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You get arrested alot it sounds like...most assholes do :) but you made my point for me in this thread...you came along like a good boy...we like that...COs especially like that...lol
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I understand where the attitude comes from. You spend your days dealing with bull**** and idiots, much of the public thinks you're a piece of crap, you have to deal with your own personal life, you aren't getting paid a whole lot and you have to balance all the other annoying and dangerous stuff that comes with the job. It's easy to understand, but understanding doesn't amount to me thinking that it's okay.
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I'm just saying walk a mile in their shoes before declaring judgement. Cops get alot of bad rap for doing their jobs. They put up with **** that you and I would consider beating someone half to death over- well, maybe not you, but I.
 
From what I researched the law in Washington State regarding signing a ticket, the law was changed in 2006 where the person being issued a ticket was not required to sign the citation. She refused to get out of the car. That is not required in this for issuance of a ticket. If such is the current law then the use of the tasers was excessive and police procedure should come into question.

The body of the law is as follows:
"Sec. 1. RCW 46.61.021 and 1997 1st sp.s. c 1 s 1 are each amended
to read as follows:
(1) Any person requested or signaled to stop by a law enforcement officer for a traffic infraction has a duty to stop.
(2) Whenever any person is stopped for a traffic infraction, the officer may detain that person for a reasonable period of time necessary to identify the person, check for outstanding warrants, check
the status of the person's license, insurance identification card, and the vehicle's registration, and complete and issue a notice of traffic infraction.
(3) Any person requested to identify himself or herself to a law enforcement officer pursuant to an investigation of a traffic infraction has a duty to identify himself or herself((,)) and give his or her current address


((, and sign an acknowledgement of receipt of the notice of infraction))stricken from law in bold..
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http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2005-06/Pdf/Amendments/Senate/1650-S AMS KLIN S5393.2.pdf
 
DiAnna said:
So, you're bound by law to take her into custody. She won't get out of the car. What do you do?
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What do they use to put mental patients that are being violent out for the count? Now I realize that you need a doctor for that so that not too much is used. But being that they are non-violent I see no problem with getting one to come down for such situations. Yeah it takes a bit of extra time. But it is far more perferable to waste a bit of time than to use something that could kill or cause a lot of pain.
 
Redress said:
I am not arguing that point and you are absolutely correct that almost every time some one is tased by the police, it is justified and legal. That does not change the fact that there are times when it is not justified and legal.
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No it does not...and it does happen, I dont deny that one bit...when its not legal and its not justified im all for discipline, firing if its called for and the court gets to decide if he goes to jail.
People refuse to acknowledge that police are on duty in every state, in every town 24hrs a day 7days a week 365 days a year...how in the hell can there not be some bad cops and how can there not be mistakes made...
Look at the size of the military and the discipline and rules they are under...and we all know some soliders make mistakes...
 
Redress said:
OK, let me give an example: people are sitting in the doorway of a business as part of a protest, clearly trespassing. The police order them to leave, they refuse. They have their arms linked so just physically picking them up would be difficult at best. They are nonviolent. How do you get them to disperse or arrest them?
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If the''re sitting in a doorway, it can't be too many people. Therefore, the police should attempt to pick them up and force their arms apart anyway. If necessary/possible, get police dogs to intimidate them so they'll loosen their grip. If that doesn't work, pepper spray or LRADs.
 
Redress said:
I do not think any one is trying to get tasers taken away from police. They are clearly a useful tool.
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I wasnt referring to any indviduals wanted tasers taken...the courts very well may take them in the future...all im saying is that either way the job has to get done...and I believe its going to be more dangerous creating more injuries...and how could it not...instead of tasing a person and taking them into custody...every refusal to comply becomes hands on physical...
 
lpast said:
Its always split...in the end it doesnt matter if tasers are gone or not...more people will get hurt in the process is all...thats my opinion
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the problem I have with tasers is that when they are used, the officers have no way of knowing what maladies the perp might have .. such as a heart condition... that can make the situation a life or death emergency in a flash.
ya smack someone with a baton across the arm, we kinda know what the effects are( bruising, maybe a broken bone).... we don't know what the effects of 50kv on someone is going to be.( i hate hearing about someone ,with a heart condition, dying after being tazed... especially knowing the cop didn't want to kill them)

physical force is necessary sometimes, sure thing... but I think physical force is employed too quick sometimes.
 
lizzie said:
I'm just saying walk a mile in their shoes before declaring judgement. Cops get alot of bad rap for doing their jobs. They put up with **** that you and I would consider beating someone half to death over- well, maybe not you, but I.
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Did you even read my post? Did you not see the part where I talked about cops getting a bad rap, how much crap they have to put up with and how that in addition to everything else probably weighs on them? I said that I understand it, but that I still don't think that the attitude lpast expressed is okay. You just repeated everything that I said to me. Got it yet?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
If the''re sitting in a doorway, it can't be too many people. Therefore, the police should attempt to pick them up and force their arms apart anyway. If necessary/possible, get police dogs to intimidate them so they'll loosen their grip. If that doesn't work, pepper spray or LRADs.
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Know what you act like people are tased in every single situation.....police have to worry about crowds forming...they cannot afford to take too long to get anything done..in a major city...you have to consider that not all depts are the same...cops in a small rural town can take as much time as they want to coax someone...in NYC...CHI..Philly LA you cant do that...you have to get in and get it done...
 
lpast said:
No your wrong...most of the public treat us very well and understand...
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I never said any differently.

its societies dirtbags and criminals and idiots that have a big problem with any authority at all that are our problem
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So do you deny that police brutality exists?
 
Redress said:
Note: the woman is 7 months pregnant. Trying to forcibly remove her could be a greater danger to her and her pregnancy than tasing.
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I thought about that. Although, I think tasing automatically puts her in an amount of danger that attempting to forcibly remove her without excessive violence does not. I tend to think that 2-3 male cops could remove her from her car without hurting her too badly.
 
Thrilla said:
the problem I have with tasers is that when they are used, the officers have no way of knowing what maladies the perp might have .. such as a heart condition... that can make the situation a life or death emergency in a flash.
ya smack someone with a baton across the arm, we kinda know what the effects are( bruising, maybe a broken bone).... we don't know what the effects of 50kv on someone is going to be.( i hate hearing about someone ,with a heart condition, dying after being tazed... especially knowing the cop didn't want to kill them)

physical force is necessary sometimes, sure thing... but I think physical force is employed too quick sometimes.
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There were years of testing done before they were approved and deemed safe...all cops in academy get tased themselves...are some taser happy, sure, Ive acknowledged over and over there are bad cops there are cops that do bad things, commit crimes, the whole gamut of scumbag..to that there is no denial whatsoever.....My sons in law tell me from their training they are told that tasers do not stop a pacemakers...if you tase someone that has an unknown heart condition they can die of course...you hit a guy with a baton and physically subdue him hes dieing too..its all about the heart rate going up to a point a weak heart fails.....I saw many a heart attack from physical contact...perps and cops alike...I believe tasers overall are the lesser of the evils
 
Thrilla said:
nothing wrong with being an alpha male on the job... but professionalism and good judgement should come before the whole " obey my authoritaaay or else" schtick.
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Point to where Ive said anything different than that...heres what I said..and Ill say it again...once your placed under arrest...your going one way or another...and I stand by that.
 
Redress said:
Note: the woman is 7 months pregnant. Trying to forcibly remove her could be a greater danger to her and her pregnancy than tasing.
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There ya go...good sound common sense...the taser imho was by far the best way to go and the proof of that is the end result...shes fine
 
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