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Is there such a thing as anti-white racism?

Is there such a thing as anti-white racism?

  • Total voters
    86
teamosil said:
Nah. It's a very close question really. Technically, does it exist in the small r sense of "racism" to mean hostility towards somebody on the basis of the color of their skin, yes. Absolutely it does.

But, does it exist in the big, sociological, societal, sense of white people being oppressed because of the color of their skin? Of course not. Very much the opposite. Does it exist in a meaningful way where we should be seriously concerned about it? Or is it just a distraction from the real problem of racism against blacks and Hispanics? Obviously it's just a distraction.

Personally I haven't voted because IMO the question is ambiguous. You could interpret it either way, so either answer could be correct.
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Fair enough. My post was more of a joke though, I of course do not mean to say those 3 people are racist.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Neither my father nor my mother inherited any such 'privileges', except your imagined privilege of being born poor and white. My father was born in 1922 and lived poor near Omaha, NE until he dropped out of school and joined the U.S. army, later fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam, my mother was born in 1919 and lived poor in San Antonio, TX, until the death of her father (she was then age 9), then shipped off to live with an aunt in FL, eventually worked as filing/typing clerk in DC war office during WWII. My parents met in 1950, near DC, married and had three children, we then moved around the world and country a bit, as service families do. My parents inherited no money or property at all, as I am unlikey too either. What little they have, they have earned, have harmed no one in the process, have served their country well and owe no such debt as a result, nor do I. If you feel guilty, then perhaps you are. I feel no guilt or debt for any past sins, real or imagined, of others before me in my family.
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Liberals don't feel guilty, they are motivated by a desire to make other people feel guilty, enforceable by law. It's an elitist power play disguised as a morality play.
 
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teamosil said:
Nah. It's a very close question really. Technically, does it exist in the small r sense of "racism" to mean hostility towards somebody on the basis of the color of their skin, yes. Absolutely it does.

But, does it exist in the big, sociological, societal, sense of white people being oppressed because of the color of their skin? Of course not. Very much the opposite. Does it exist in a meaningful way where we should be seriously concerned about it? Or is it just a distraction from the real problem of racism against blacks and Hispanics? Obviously it's just a distraction.

Personally I haven't voted because IMO the question is ambiguous. You could interpret it either way, so either answer could be correct.
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The majority of White people are unfairly oppressed because of their class. Their oppressors invented this White Shame in order to further oppress them. The rulers passed the Civil Rights laws against the will of the majority not to help minorities, but solely to make the majority feel powerless. Once that resigned submission to anti-majority rule was created, the ruling few could pass economic laws to further oppress the majority.
 
Wow, 77 vs 3 voters, @ 5/30/2012.

The issue needn't be complicated. Assuming race exists all races can be targetted by the racism of other races.
 
Wake said:
Wow, 77 vs 3 voters, @ 5/30/2012.
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The poll result is completely irrelevant, as this is not a matter of opinion.

Wake said:
The issue needn't be complicated.
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When addressed honestly and accurately, it isn't complicated. When a factual matter is framed as a matter of opinion, however, such a framing helps to poison and undermine discussion of it.

Wake said:
Assuming race exists all races can be targetted by the racism of other races.
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For the upteenth time:

"Race" doesn't need to be real (concrete, biological) for people to ACT as if it is. Anyone can indeed be targeted by ideological racism, and the biological UNreality of "race" does nothing to prevent that. The SOCIAL reality of "race" is more than enough ammunition to support all manner of racist delusion.
 
cmakaioz said:
(1) The poll result is completely irrelevant, as this is not a matter of opinion.



(2) When addressed honestly and accurately, it isn't complicated. When a factual matter is framed as a matter of opinion, however, such a framing helps to poison and undermine discussion of it.

(3) "Race" doesn't need to be real (concrete, biological) for people to ACT as if it is. Anyone can indeed be targeted by ideological racism, and the biological UNreality of "race" does nothing to prevent that. The SOCIAL reality of "race" is more than enough ammunition to support all manner of racist delusion.
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(1) But that would be your opinion.

(2) If you want your opinion to be more understood, you should be succinct, concise.

(3) There doesn't seem to be many people in this forum who share your opinion. If you show me the exact undeniable scientific evidence then you may likely gain another person to this particular point of view.

Then again, if race does not exist, then neither does good and evil, right and wrong, being straight/bi-sexual/homosexual, justice, etc, etc, etc. Assuming they're just ideas. Constructs.
 
Wake said:
(1) But that would be your opinion.
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No, it isn't. It's not ANYONE's opinion. It is a fact that there exist one or more people who act AS IF "race" is real, and do so in a way which involves treating negatively at least some people socially assigned as "white". This remains true regardless of how anyone feels about it.

If you deny the fundamental difference between fact and opinion, then go shoot yourself in the head...after all, by your presumed standard it's only an opinion that most people who shoot themselves in the head die from it, so you should be just fine. After all, you don't have to accept their opinion, right?

Wake said:
(2) If you want your opinion to be more understood, you should be succinct, concise.
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It's not an opinion. Also, even with factual matters, after decades of discussion on "race," I have observed that being concise is not a reliable predictor of whether or not one will be accurately understood, or whether the relevant facts will be acknowledged.

Wake said:
(3) There doesn't seem to be many people in this forum who share your opinion.
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Fact, not opinion...and facts are not popularity contests.

Wake said:
If you show me the exact undeniable scientific evidence then you may likely gain another person to this particular point of view.
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Show you the exact evidence demonstrating that there exist one or more people on earth who subscribe to racist ideology as demonstrated by racist hostility against "white" people?!? Examples abound... for an easy example (since by your previous posts you have a pattern of not doing much work towards finding things out yourself), talk to Luna Tick...he's experienced it himself. If you don't believe him, you're calling him a liar...and you two can hash out that mess yourselves.

Wake said:
Then again, if race does not exist, then neither does good and evil, right and wrong,
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As a matter of fact -- in the context of referring to concrete instantiation (i.e. finding some kind of literal substance or material that is "race") -- yes, good and evil are also NOT tangible.

Wake said:
being straight/bi-sexual/homosexual, justice, etc, etc, etc. Assuming they're just ideas. Constructs.
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The difference between "race" being real in the sense of being tangible vs. "race" being real in a social sense has been explained dozens of times in various threads here. Were you not around for at least one of those, or do you truly not understand what was discussed?
 
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cmakaioz said:
No, it isn't. It's not ANYONE's opinion. It is a fact that there exist one or more people who act AS IF "race" is real, and do so in a way which involves treating negatively at least some people socially assigned as "white". This remains true regardless of how anyone feels about it.
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If it is not opinion but fact, then provide me the scientific data. If you do that, it's likely I'll adopt that notion. I'm under no obligation to believe any person when their only reason is "because it's not opinion but fact."

cmakaioz said:
If you deny the fundamental difference between fact and opinion, then go shoot yourself in the head...after all, by your presumed standard it's only an opinion that most people who shoot themselves in the head die from it, so you should be just fine. After all, you don't have to accept their opinion, right?
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You err. People are not going to be receptive if you speak like that. I understand the very meanings of "fact" and "opinion." That is not the issue. The issue right now is you providing the scientific data required in persuading others to take you seriously. Will you or will you not do that?

cmakaioz said:
It's not an opinion. Also, even with factual matters, after decades of discussion on "race," I have observed that being concise is not a reliable predictor of whether or not one will be accurately understood, or whether the relevant facts will be acknowledged.
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If it's not opinion but fact then show why. Provide the necessary data. I can understand anything so long as you make it brief and succinct, and solid in terms of undeniable fact.

cmakaioz said:
Fact, not opinion...and facts are not popularity contests.
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Then please prove it is fact.

cmakaioz said:
Show you the exact evidence demonstrating that there exist one or more people on earth who subscribe to racist ideology as demonstrated by racist hostility against "white" people?!? Examples abound... for an easy example (since by your previous posts you have a pattern of not doing much work towards finding things out yourself), talk to Luna Tick...he's experienced it himself. If you don't believe him, you're calling him a liar...and you two can hash out that mess yourselves.
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Oh, I know there exist people who think race exists and use it to be "racist." That's unquestionable. That's not the issue. You say race does not exist, so it would be appreciated if you were to provide the valid data showing, absolutely, why.

cmakaioz said:
As a matter of fact -- in the context of referring to concrete instantiation (i.e. finding some kind of literal substance or material that is "race") -- yes, good and evil are also NOT tangible.
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Good & evil and right & wrong are man-made hypothetical structures.

cmakaioz said:
The difference between "race" being real in the sense of being tangible vs. "race" being real in a social sense has been explained dozens of times in various threads here. Were you not around for at least one of those, or do you truly not understand what was discussed?
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It doesn't feel that you addressed the issue of "straight," "bisexual," and "homosexual." If "race" does not exist then neither do those three, justice, etc, because none of them can be observed under a microscope, like empirical data can. As for "human sexuality," it's like that the animal caled homo sapien, well, some mate to populate the planet and some don't.
 
PrometheusBound said:
The majority of White people are unfairly oppressed because of their class. Their oppressors invented this White Shame in order to further oppress them. The rulers passed the Civil Rights laws against the will of the majority not to help minorities, but solely to make the majority feel powerless. Once that resigned submission to anti-majority rule was created, the ruling few could pass economic laws to further oppress the majority.
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This is total crazy talk. Just FYI.
 
teamosil said:
This is total crazy talk. Just FYI.
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I happen to agree with him. The majority of folk, if it were put to referendum, would not have voted for the passage of the civil rights act, and the trans-formative effects it has had on American society. It was therefore, naturally, a more powerful minority (lawmakers) overpowering majority opinion.
 
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Wake said:
If it is not opinion but fact, then provide me the scientific data.
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You have repeatedly shown yourself to have exceptional difficulty comprehending the most basic concepts and observations which disprove the premise of racial realism. You have, on multiple occasions, asserted that for racism to be real, "race" must be real. This is a profound failure of basic logic, given the fact (oops...there I go using the F word again) that people are capable of being mistaken (and therefore a premise need not be accurate in order to be acted upon).

Unless someone's holding a gun to your head and ordering you not to examine the disproof of racial realism (in threads where that's actually the topic) already given multiple times, nothing's stopping you from reading through the appropriate threads yourself.

Wake said:
I understand the very meanings of "fact" and "opinion."
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Your posts indicate otherwise.
 
thecrazyfool said:
I happen to agree with him. The majority of folk, if it were put to referendum, would not have voted for the passage of the civil rights act, and the trans-formative effects it has had on American society. It was therefore, naturally, a more powerful minority (lawmakers) overpowering majority opinion.
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You mean to say that lawmakers actually stuck their necks out, showed some real leadership, and did the right thing even though it may not have been the most popular thing?

What happened to lawmakers like that?
 
Dittohead not! said:
You mean to say that lawmakers actually stuck their necks out, showed some real leadership, and did the right thing even though it may not have been the most popular thing?

What happened to lawmakers like that?
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They got -- and still get -- out-fundraised by serial liars, cowards, bigots, and plain ol' skillful actors who may not actually believe their own public lines but can pretend to do so convincingly. The politician's mantra might be: the key to success is sincerity...once you can fake that you've got it made.

For a recent case-study in this on an industrial scale, see Fox "News" Channel.
 
cmakaioz said:
(1) You have repeatedly shown yourself to have exceptional difficulty comprehending the most basic concepts and observations which disprove the premise of racial realism. You have, on multiple occasions, asserted that for racism to be real, "race" must be real. This is a profound failure of basic logic, given the fact (oops...there I go using the F word again) that people are capable of being mistaken (and therefore a premise need not be accurate in order to be acted upon).

Unless someone's holding a gun to your head and ordering you not to examine the disproof of racial realism (in threads where that's actually the topic) already given multiple times, nothing's stopping you from reading through the appropriate threads yourself.



(2) Your posts indicate otherwise.
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(1) So you offer bluster instead of succinct data. You're not going to persuade people with that behavior.

(2) Don't let your eyes deceive you.
 
cmakaioz said:
They got -- and still get -- out-fundraised by serial liars, cowards, bigots, and plain ol' skillful actors who may not actually believe their own public lines but can pretend to do so convincingly. The politician's mantra might be: the key to success is sincerity...once you can fake that you've got it made.

For a recent case-study in this on an industrial scale, see Fox "News" Channel.
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Ah, so that's why Washington is in such a mess.
 
Wake said:
(1) So you offer bluster instead of succinct data. You're not going to persuade people with that behavior.
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Once again, you keep referring to FACTUAL matters as if they are matters of OPINION, and evidentiary claims as if they are rhetoric. Please stop...it's incredibly offensive to anyone who takes accuracy seriously.
 
teamosil said:
This is total crazy talk. Just FYI.
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Who benefits by your denial of their ulterior motives? Why do you support them? Do you believe that to be is to obey? Don't drag the rest of us into your chanting back whatever has been preached to you. Are you so locked into the required interpretation of what is going on that you can never think for yourself?
 
cmakaioz said:
Once again, you keep referring to FACTUAL matters as if they are matters of OPINION, and evidentiary claims as if they are rhetoric. Please stop...it's incredibly offensive to anyone who takes accuracy seriously.
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I'm asking you to provide me the scientific data. Repeatedly you have refused for some reason.

If you shared with me the succinct data I would study it and possibly understand it as undeniable fact.

You are not doing an effective job at persuading people to your cause. Doing that in the realm of debate is like shooting yourself in the foot. I prefer accuracy over most people, including you. Please provide the scientific data. If you do I will read and consider it. What's offensive is a negative attitude and the repeated inability to provide proof and data to bolster your claims.
 
Wake said:
(1) So you offer bluster instead of succinct data. You're not going to persuade people with that behavior.

(2) Don't let your eyes deceive you.
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And again, Wakes' "refutation" makes his opponents point :lamo:

You have, on multiple occasions, asserted that for racism to be real, "race" must be real. This is a profound failure of basic logic, given the fact (oops...there I go using the F word again) that people are capable of being mistaken (and therefore a premise need not be accurate in order to be acted upon).
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cmakaioz gives a clear explanation for why Wake is wrong, and Wake can't even recognize that he's been pwned. Wake called it "bluster". The rest of us call it "an explanation"
 
sangha said:
-snip-
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Cmakaioz provided no succinct scientific data when civilly asked.

If your words aren't grounded in reality or validity, then they mean nothing.
 
Luna Tick said:
I visited Guam and loved it there. People were really friendly and didn't care that I'm white and have auburn hair. Some of the racist attacks in Hawaii, believe it or not, included hostility toward my hair color. I agree with you. I felt better respected in Guam than in Hawaii.

You did a great job rebutting the nonsense of "white privilege" in Hawaii.
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Factual question: are "white" people, on the aggregate, financially and politically better off than nonwhite people in Hawai'i?

Answer: Yes, they are. Hence, there is white privilege, not "white privilege", in Hawai'i. It is empirically demonstrable and pervasive. It's also obvious to anyone who grasps fundamental ideas like isolation of the variable under study.
 
Wake said:
Cmakaioz provided no succinct scientific data when civilly asked.

If your words aren't grounded in reality or validity, then they mean nothing.
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And Wake continues to make Cmakaioz's point by asking for scientific data to resolve a logical problem :cuckoo:
 
Wake said:
I'm asking you to provide me the scientific data. Repeatedly you have refused for some reason.

If you shared with me the succinct data I would study it and possibly understand it as undeniable fact.

You are not doing an effective job at persuading people to your cause. Doing that in the realm of debate is like shooting yourself in the foot. I prefer accuracy over most people, including you. Please provide the scientific data. If you do I will read and consider it. What's offensive is a negative attitude and the repeated inability to provide proof and data to bolster your claims.
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Which of the serial failures of logic are you requesting "data" for?:

your sloppy confusion of facts vs. opinion?
your multiple counts of insisting that "race" must be biologically real in order for racISM to be real?
or that there is such a thing as antiwhite racism?


The first is a fundamental failure of logic generally, so no amount of facts will make any difference.

The second is disproven by the easy and common observation that people are capable of being mistaken; thus there is no requirement that one must have accurate information in order to take action...people routinely act upon false or mistaken information. If you want to get more specific than that, you're welcome to visit the appropriate thread(s) where that issue is actually the topic (done here, it would be a derail).

The third claim has already been demonstrated here, by Luna Tick, who has articulated instances of being on the receiving end of antiwhite racism. Unless you're denying his experience outright, that's already enough demonstration of the fact that there exist one or more persons on earth who subscribe to racism and behave in a racist manner against people assigned as "white."

You clear yet, or have you found some other way of further adding to your mountain of Fail?
 
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cmakaioz said:
Which of the serial failure of logic are you requesting data for:

your sloppy confusion of facts vs. opinion?
your multiple counts of insisting that "race" must be biologically real in order for racISM to be real?
or that there is such a thing as antiwhite racism?


The first is a fundamental failure of logic generally, so no amount of facts will make any difference.

The second is disproven by the easy and common observation that people are capable of being mistaken; thus there is no requirement that one must have accurate information in order to take action...people routinely act upon false or mistaken information. If you want to get more specific than that, you're welcome to visit the appropriate thread(s) where that issue is actually the topic (done here, it would be a derail).

The third claim has already been demonstrated here, by Luna Tick, who has articulated instances of being on the receiving end of antiwhite racism. Unless you're denying his experience outright, that's already enough demonstration of the fact that there exist one or more persons on earth who subscribe to racism and behave in a racist manner against people assigned as "white."

You clear yet, or have you found some other way of further adding to your mountain of Fail?
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#1 is a logical question, which can't be proven with facts
#2 is also a logical question, which can't be proven with facts
#3 is a question of fact, but if Wake can't comprehend #2, no facts can convince him that it exists when he is unable to understand the logic of its' existence

And yet, he keeps asking for facts :cuckoo:
 
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