• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Texas secession?

Texas secession?

  • Anytime they want

    Votes: 47 54.7%
  • Bad times only

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • No way

    Votes: 35 40.7%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 3.5%

  • Total voters
    86
Because libertarians abuse people all the time. :lamo
I didn't mean to imply that, no.*

The first part, "If you want people to be happy you take steps to make them happy.", sounds more like pandering than anything else. In that light it seems damned funny coming from a Libertarian.

It would have been even more comical coming from a conservative since they seem to believe their politicians are above that kind of thing. Not true, of course, virtually all politicians do it, but they seem to think otherwise.



Ed:
*But haymarket does have a point in post #828.
 
Last edited:
So an American patriot punishes people when they practice their freedoms? Hmm..

Leaving the country when you have money:

We are going to tax your ass and you can never come back!

Leaving the country when you are a state:

You have to pay out of your nose and give me everything!

You are such a patriot. :roll:

You have no freedom to turn traitor and have a state leave the union. Your premise fails right out of the gate.
 
Because libertarians abuse people all the time. :lamo

Because the end result of many of the policies they advocate certainly would harm people.

One such example is the libertarian crusade to remove the government from the work of the FDA and drugs and medicines. If their wild dreams ever came true it would be a nightmare for the rest of society as people died from untested and unsafe drugs and medicines.

Yes, libertarian policies would indeed result in harm to people.
 
How is leaving being a traitor?

Quantrill
 
I didn't mean to imply that, no.*

The first part, "If you want people to be happy you take steps to make them happy.", sounds more like pandering than anything else. In that light it seems damned funny coming from a Libertarian.

It would have been even more comical coming from a conservative since they seem to believe their politicians are above that kind of thing. Not true, of course, virtually all politicians do it, but they seem to think otherwise.

It is pandering. You make them happy by making them free.

You don't make them happy by making them your tax slaves like haymarket desires.


Ed:
*But haymarket does have a point in post #828.

No he doesn't.

You have no freedom to turn traitor and have a state leave the union. Your premise fails right out of the gate.

Check again..

Because the end result of many of the policies they advocate certainly would harm people.

One such example is the libertarian crusade to remove the government from the work of the FDA and drugs and medicines. If their wild dreams ever came true it would be a nightmare for the rest of society as people died from untested and unsafe drugs and medicines.

Yes, libertarian policies would indeed result in harm to people.

Because the FDA keeps medicines safe . :lamo

And libertarians do have a plan for unsafe products produced by the market. Do you know what it is?
 
Last edited:
How is leaving being a traitor?

Quantrill

Haymarket wants everyone to be his tax slave and if you refuse you are a traitor and unamerican or unpatriotic, or whatever other old ass guilt trip from the beginning of the century he wants to throw up.
 
Last edited:
Haymarket wants everyone to be his tax slave and if you refuse you are a traitor and unamerican.

It boggles my mind why someone in one state would feel as if he has any legitimate claim on the sovereign people of another state. Some people just want to be the boss of the world.
 
It boggles my mind why someone in one state would feel as if he has any legitimate claim on the sovereign people of another state. Some people just want to be the boss of the world.

You make the fundamental error of attributing to those folks a quality they do not possess.
 
Haymarket wants everyone to be his tax slave and if you refuse you are a traitor and unamerican or unpatriotic, or whatever other old ass guilt trip from the beginning of the century he wants to throw up.

That is just nonsense. I want no slaves.

People who would destroy the USA label themselves as unamerican and unpatriotic by their views and their actions.

The problem with some on the far right is that they refuse to accept that they live in a society with 311 million other people and they are not the law unto themselves.
 
Because the FDA keeps medicines safe . :lamo

And libertarians do have a plan for unsafe products produced by the market. Do you know what it is?

It is difficult to tell from your usual enigmatic flippant shorthand drive-by response what exactly you mean...... I imagine you are confusing the PERFECT with SAFE. Sorry, but that just does not fly.

So please enlighten us as the the libertarian plan to both abolish the FDA and provide safe medicines and drugs for 311 million people.
 
It is difficult to tell from your usual enigmatic flippant shorthand drive-by response what exactly you mean...... I imagine you are confusing the PERFECT with SAFE. Sorry, but that just does not fly.

So please enlighten us as the the libertarian plan to both abolish the FDA and provide safe medicines and drugs for 311 million people.

If your car isn't working right, why fix it when you can just stay at home?
 
That is just nonsense. I want no slaves.

People who would destroy the USA label themselves as unamerican and unpatriotic by their views and their actions.

The problem with some on the far right is that they refuse to accept that they live in a society with 311 million other people and they are not the law unto themselves.

311 million? Don't you mean more like 6 billion? Or do you think the 311 million are a law unto themselves?
 
Destroying the USA. Its pretty basic.

The 'union' or the USA, is not patriotic in and of itself. 'Union' alone is not synonomous with good.

To be part of a union just to be part of a union is not good or patriotic.

The 'union' must be established on principles agreed on and to live by. A Constitution. One can remain part of the 'union' and be against the Constitution and be traitor. Just as the North did. One can leave the union but be patriotic toward the union because they are supporting the Constitution.

Just because one secedes doensn't make them the traitor. Union for the sake of union is stupid. It must be based on law. And when that law is ignored by a major section then they have destroyed the union because they cease to proved others their rights under the agreed law. That is not union. That is treason.

Quantrill
 
311 million? Don't you mean more like 6 billion? Or do you think the 311 million are a law unto themselves?

We are talking about secession from the USA.... and that nation has 311 million people.
 
One can remain part of the 'union' and be against the Constitution and be traitor. Just as the North did. One can leave the union but be patriotic toward the union because they are supporting the Constitution.

Just because one secedes doensn't make them the traitor. Union for the sake of union is stupid. It must be based on law. And when that law is ignored by a major section then they have destroyed the union because they cease to proved others their rights under the agreed law. That is not union. That is treason.

Quantrill

And it is interesting that the official body who has the job of determining just those things have decided that YOUR POSITION is wrong.

A formal SC decision says otherwise. Even Antonin Scalia - arguable the most conservative current SC Justice - says otherwise.

So can pontificate all you want about the law and union and the Constitution but those who are actually responsible for those things disagree with your position.

I will take reality over ideology every day of the week... twice today being a Sunday.
 
Last edited:
And it is interesting that the official body who has the job of determining just those things have decided that YOUR POSITION is wrong.

A formal SC decision says otherwise. Even Antonin Scalia - arguable the most conservative current SC Justice - says otherwise.

Yes, that official body flouted and disregarded the Constitution, making them wrong with the Constitution. That official body determined that union based on the Constitution was no good. So, they went to a different and higher law.

Again, they destroyed the glue which held the union together. They are the traitors.

Quantrill
 
Destroying the USA. Its pretty basic.

So destroying the US is letting unhappy members leave and come?

How has it worked out not allowing them to leave? Everyone is united, right? :lamo
 
Last edited:
But holding other people as property is completely acceptable.

Holding people as property was acceptable in 1776-1865. Protected by the Constitution.

Quantrill
 
We are talking about secession from the USA.... and that nation has 311 million people.

Yes, I am aware. I was simply correcting your statement that we live in a society of 311 million people. We actually live in a society with 6 billion people.
 
That is just nonsense. I want no slaves.

Oh so that is why you support using people and fining them when they leave your claw? Is that why we tax people all around the world when they don't even live here and you support it? Whatever Hay. Just admit you love using people for their taxes. Hell you have admitted it before, should I just quote it and get it over with or will you just admit the obvious?

People who would destroy the USA label themselves as unamerican and unpatriotic by their views and their actions.

Whatever that means. I guess that is why you support the twisting of the welfare clause, the necessary and proper clause, the commerce clause, the second amendment, the first amendment, the tenth amendment, the issue of secession and every other part you can use to your advantage because you are a patriot. :lamo

The problem with some on the far right is that they refuse to accept that they live in a society with 311 million other people and they are not the law unto themselves.

Oh yes, that is it! That is why we are against your tax structure. You totally got us there. :lamo
 
Last edited:
And it is interesting that the official body who has the job of determining just those things have decided that YOUR POSITION is wrong.

A formal SC decision says otherwise. Even Antonin Scalia - arguable the most conservative current SC Justice - says otherwise.

So can pontificate all you want about the law and union and the Constitution but those who are actually responsible for those things disagree with your position.

I will take reality over ideology every day of the week... twice today being a Sunday.

You disregard the Constitution and Supreme Court decisions prior to the War between the States. But you want others to adhere to the Supreme Court decisions today. Typical yankee. Your for the Constitution when you like it. And others better obey. But when you don't like it, you must resort to a higher law or principle. Because you are the people. Your the ones who say whats right or wrong and how we are to live. Thats why your damnyankees.

Quantrill
 
It is difficult to tell from your usual enigmatic flippant shorthand drive-by response what exactly you mean...... I imagine you are confusing the PERFECT with SAFE. Sorry, but that just does not fly.

So please enlighten us as the the libertarian plan to both abolish the FDA and provide safe medicines and drugs for 311 million people.

Hey, I'm not always making the case that the FDA is better than allowing people due process when we both know people die NOW for the exact same reasons.
 
Whatever that means. I guess that is why you support the twisting of the welfare clause, the necessary and proper clause, the commerce clause, the second amendment, the first amendment, the tenth amendment, the issue of secession and every other part you can use to your advantage because you are a patriot. :lamo

I would think that a patriot would leave neighboring and distant republics alone and allow them to govern themselves. I would never be party to staging an invasion of Texas or any other of my neighbor republics just to squelch their right to self-government.

Unless society is going to consolidate into a single, massive, world government, then there is a very good reason to allow people to form their own local polities and lives their lives how they want, not how I think they should.
 
Back
Top Bottom