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Texas secession?

Texas secession?

  • Anytime they want

    Votes: 47 54.7%

  • Bad times only

    Votes: 1 1.2%

  • No way

    Votes: 35 40.7%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 3 3.5%
  • Total voters
    86
Quantrill said:
I just gave you a quote from Madison one of the main figures in the creation of the Constitution.

Who ratified the Constitution? The people, or the States?

Quantrill
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I don't care if you quote God Himself. Is that quote in the Constitution or is it not in the Constitution?
 
haymarket said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. It is obvious that neither do you. Any person who wants to leave the USA may do so.

Why does anybody need to "pay you" when you do so? And what exactly are they paying you for?
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Your memory is extremely short there hay. So forget that the government levies a tax on all of your unrealized capital gains when you leave the country and you supported it by supporting a redundant bill that does exactly the same thing?
 
haymarket said:
I don't care if you quote God Himself. Is that quote in the Constitution or is it not in the Constitution?
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Lol, still not caring how you figure out what the meanings of clauses are. Go figure.
 
haymarket said:
I don't care if you quote God Himself. Is that quote in the Constitution or is it not in the Constitution?
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That quote tells you that 'we the people' means 'we the people of the states' concerning the Constitution. And the ratification process was to the individual 'states'.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
That quote tells you that 'we the people' means 'we the people of the states' concerning the Constitution. And the ratification process was to the individual 'states'.

Quantrill
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So your quote from one person IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. Thank you.
 
Moot said:
I think the point is the states aren't "sovereign" and never were. Some of the states might have thought they were, but the Civil War proved them wrong.
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I don't believe that this was actually the case. The states were sovereign. The treaty of Paris acknowledged the former colonies as free, sovereign, and independent states.
 
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Henrin said:
Your memory is extremely short there hay. So forget that the government levies a tax on all of your unrealized capital gains when you leave the country and you supported it by supporting a redundant bill that does exactly the same thing?
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I still have no idea what you are talking about. If you want to leave - then leave. Take with you what you own and can take with you. Pay your legal obligations before you do.

You still have not stated why anyone leaving should be paid and for what should they be paid.
 
haymarket said:
I still have no idea what you are talking about. If you want to leave - then leave. Take with you what you own and can take with you. Pay your legal obligations before you do.

You still have not stated why anyone leaving should be paid and for what should they be paid.
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Lol, and the legal obligations are the problem and you know it. You know perfectly well it is to keep people here so they DON'T leave. Your dishonestly is outstanding.
 
haymarket said:
So your quote from one person IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. Thank you.
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The Preamble isn't law, it's just ideas. The law comes from the Articles and Amendments.
 
dabateman said:
The Preamble isn't law, it's just ideas. The law comes from the Articles and Amendments.
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So the Preamble is part of the Official US Constitution but its not really an important part of the Constitution because it simply tells us WHY it was WRITTEN and what the scope and duty of Government is?
 
Texas has always been a foreign country within the US. (And so is California.) The US civil war did prove that leaving the union is not permitted, but the US constitution allows for it. So, legally, Texas could leave, and it would show to the world that the USA is indeed the fairest country of the world in the 21st century. But this will never happen, because most of the US federal infrastructure is in Texas, e.g. the energy grid/distribution. So this will definitely lead to the next civil war.
 
Henrin said:
Lol, and the legal obligations are the problem and you know it. You know perfectly well it is to keep people here so they DON'T leave. Your dishonestly is outstanding.
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Again, this is impossible to discuss this with you because
1- you will not clearly state why anybody leaving should be paid, and
2- for what it is that they are being paid for

Are you really advocating that people NOT satisfy their legal obligations?
 
haymarket said:
So your quote from one person IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. Thank you.
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The quote comes from one of the framers of the Constitution who explained who 'we the people' were. The people of the states. And in explaining he noted the sovereignty of the 13 states.

And, your ignoring the ratification process. Who was it by? The people of the Nation? Or the people of the States? Answer: States.

States did not lose their sovereignty.

Quantrill
 
haymarket said:
Again, this is impossible to discuss this with you because
1- you will not clearly state why anybody leaving should be paid, and
2- for what it is that they are being paid for

Are you really advocating that people NOT satisfy their legal obligations?
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I'm arguing that people should be allowed to leave whenever they damn well please without having to pay the government.

You and I also know that it is a punishment on the rich since it only APPLIES to the rich.

You can cram your little pay the obligations to the government bit since that clearly doesn't apply.
 
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haymarket said:
So the Preamble is part of the Official US Constitution but its not really an important part of the Constitution because it simply tells us WHY it was WRITTEN and what the scope and duty of Government is?
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Its an important part. Which is why Madison had to explain 'we the people' is 'we the people of the States' in their sovereignty.

Which your ignoring.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
The quote comes from one of the framers of the Constitution who explained who 'we the people' were. The people of the states. And in explaining he noted the sovereignty of the 13 states.



Quantrill
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Again, your quote from one individual is NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. Thank you.
 
haymarket said:
So the Preamble is part of the Official US Constitution but its not really an important part of the Constitution because it simply tells us WHY it was WRITTEN and what the scope and duty of Government is?
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So do the Articles of Confederation, but they're not law either. Neither are Jefferson's papers or any of the like. The law, the actual substance, begins with Article I. Besides. I didn't say it wasn't important. I said it wasn't the law.

But go ahead and try to ignore that...
 
Quantrill said:
Its an important part. Which is why Madison had to explain 'we the people' is 'we the people of the States' in their sovereignty.

Which your ignoring.

Quantrill
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So it is an important part when you want it to be an important part. But others on your side in this same thread see it it as just a bunch of ideas when they don't want it to be an important part.

Got it. ;):roll:
 
megaprogman said:
I see this as a case of the constitution being flawed. It should have addressed this question specifically and because it didn't we are stuck debating this topic that has no real legal answer. It could equally be yes or no.
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Article I, Sec. 9 contains the restrictions placed upon the states. Leaving the union is not among these restrictions.

Also, amendment 10 reserves the powers not delegated to the united states to the states themselves, or the people. There is no delegated power over the rules of exit, so it seems that the power to exit is reserved to the states.

Also, as someone pointed out earlier, I believe it was Quantrill, there were states that, in their ratification documents, made it clear that they were delegating some of their authority to the union, and that they would take back this authority when they wished.
 
dabateman said:
So do the Articles of Confederation, but they're not law either. Neither are Jefferson's papers or any of the like. The law, the actual substance, begins with Article I. Besides. I didn't say it wasn't important. I said it wasn't the law.

But go ahead and try to ignore that...
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The Constitution starts with the first letter of the first word. It opens with a detailed explanation of the reasons for its writing and the scope of government.

If you do not like it, amend the document to get rid of it. But please do not try to pretend it is not important or part of the document.
 
haymarket said:
Again, your quote from one individual is NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. Thank you.
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The preamble is part of the Constitution. The preamble speaks to 'we the people of the States'. State sovereignty.

Who ratified the Constitution?

Your welcome.

Quantrill
 
haymarket said:
The Constitution starts with the first letter of the first word. It opens with a detailed explanation of the reasons for its writing and the scope of government.

If you do not like it, amend the document to get rid of it. But please do not try to pretend it is not important or part of the document.
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You're shifting the goal posts. A typical liars move to evade.

I didn't say the preamble wasn't important (though you still insist this my position. Liar). I said it wasn't the law. The law begins with Article 1.
 
haymarket said:
So it is an important part when you want it to be an important part. But others on your side in this same thread see it it as just a bunch of ideas when they don't want it to be an important part.

Got it. ;):roll:
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Madison was one of the main framers of the Constitution, if not the main one. His explantion suffices to show that the states retain their soverignty. Who ratified?

Your welcome.

Quantrill
 
dabateman said:
You're shifting the goal posts. A typical liars move to evade.

I didn't say the preamble wasn't important (though you still insist this my position. Liar). I said it wasn't the law. The law begins with Article 1.
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Well I can sleep easier tonight with the knowledge that the Preamble now has your blessing as important.

So after that is established - so what? We still have the Preamble there as a part of the Constitution and it helps us the rest of the document as it tells us what the purpose of it what and what the scope of our government is.

Why is it that some want to use private musings of individuals that ARE NOT part of the Constitution to help explain it but are loathe to use the actual Constitution itself where ALL the Founders tell us what the scope of government is?
 
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