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Texas secession?

Texas secession?

  • Anytime they want

    Votes: 47 54.7%
  • Bad times only

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • No way

    Votes: 35 40.7%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 3.5%

  • Total voters
    86
You are advocating outright theft from the American people.

How does it feel. How does it feel.

Just like the North wanted the South to free its slaves with no compensation.

How does it feel.

Quantrill
 
If a state is leaving the union they have no obligation to respect the debt of the country they are leaving. China can suck it.

If a country is leaving and their federal land on their property and it either be bought or given to the state. I made no mistake.

Right, you get everything, and China can suck it. That sounds reasonable. :roll:



Nuclear weapons would most likely be returned to the federal government.

MOST LIKELY? Nuclear weapons are involved and the answer is MOST LIKELY?




That makes no sense. They are citizens of the United States and if they live in another state they naturally would not lose it.

Right. Texans get everything, and everyone else can suck it.
 
Oh, Im not talking about undoing the doodle. Im talking about secession.

Quantrill

You are talking about undoing the doodle. "Maybe we should have thought of that." Yeah, maybe so, but what's done is done. We can't just go back and say, "We'd like a redo."
 
You are advocating outright theft from the American people.

Nope.

Federal land/buildings:

One the federal government give it up.
Two they keep it and provide Texas with revenue
Three Texas buys it from the federal government.

Debt:

The US debt is the debt of the United States. Texas debt would 0 at the start of their country unless they accepted to pay a share of the debt of the US.

welfare programs:

They are programs by the United States and if Texas left the union these programs would not apply to them. There is no further theft taking place by not respecting laws of other countries like their welfare programs.

The rest I can't even think of how it would be theft.
 
from Centinel on the practical impact of Texas leaving the USA

Q: What happens to the federal land and buildings and workers in Texas?

A couple of options: They could remain federal property indefinitely. Or they could remain federal property for a specific period of time, after which they would revert to being owned by texas. They could immediately be made texas property (not a very friendly option, in my opinion). Or they could be purchased. Leaving them as property of the US might be a good option, as they would then provide a good source of tax revenue for texas.

They should not be allowed to leave unless they pay in full for what they keep.

Q: What happens to the share of the national debt that Texans owe?
If I were them, I would do something like this. Since they are appx. 7% of the US population, they owe about 7% of the national debt. They should take on roughly 7% of this debt, relieving the US gov't of paying this amount. Essentially, 7% of the debt would transfer as an obligation to Texas.

Again, they must pay their bills BEFORE being allowed to leave. That money is owed to the American people and I as an American citizen would not trust someone who is spitting on the nation and turning traitor.

Q: What happens to Texans and Social Security and Medicare?
Those Texans who renounced their US citizenship and become citizens of Texas would no longer be entitled to these benefits. Those who chose to remain US citizens and reside in Texas as visitors would still be entitled to their benefits.

I would go much further. Anyone staying in the foreign nation of Texas would be renouncing not only their citizenship in the USA but all benefits as well.



Q: What happens to citizens of Texas who still want to be part of the USA?
They could remain in Texas as visiting US citizens, or they could emigrate to the US.

Nope. Not good enough. If they stay in Texas - they give up the USA.

Q: What happens to citizens of the other 49 states who now want to move to Texas and their Social Security and Medicare and share of the debt?
I suppose it would be the same as a US citizen moving to any other foreign nation. They could either live in that foreign nation as a visitor, remaining a citizen of the US, or they could become a citizen of that foreign nation and renounce their US citizenship. After that, the would not longer be entitled to the benefits of being a US citizen, such as social security and medicare.

It should not be that easy. It should be punitive. It should discourage other states from simply leaving willy nilly as the mood hits them. This should be something not done easily. It should be something that comes with a high price tag both in dollars and in the loss of other benefits.

Texas would indeed be a foreign nation. But it would be unique in that it spit in the face of both America and the American people by leaving our union and giving us the middle finger salute. The rest of us should not be nice about this. The rest of us should make this as hard as possible. Texas would be a foreign nation and we should treat them as a pariah and the people of Texas should know the price they will pay for their insolence.

And that would apply to any other state which wants to go that way.

There must be a price to pay and that price should be a high one.
 
How does it feel. How does it feel.

Just like the North wanted the South to free its slaves with no compensation.

How does it feel.

Quantrill

But I thought slavery had nothing to do with secession. At least keep your story straight.

By the way, human beings aren't property. If you don't like that, go put on your sheets and burn a cross.
 
Debt:

The US debt is the debt of the United States. Texas debt would 0 at the start of their country unless they accepted to pay a share of the debt of the US.

.


So the debt that was spent in Texas? What about the debt incurred by Texans who were president. Like Iraq and Medicare?

Oh, I forgot. Texas rules and everyone else can suck it.
 
You are talking about undoing the doodle. "Maybe we should have thought of that." Yeah, maybe so, but what's done is done. We can't just go back and say, "We'd like a redo."

Im talking about the freedom of secession. The States should have it.

We could get our history straight and recognize that the South wasn't the traitor. The North was. Are you willing to get your history straight?

Quantrill
 
So the debt that was spent in Texas? What about the debt incurred by Texans who were president. Like Iraq and Medicare?

Oh, I forgot. Texas rules and everyone else can suck it.

How does it feel. How does it feel.

Didn't matter to the North in 1861-1865.

Quantrill
 
So the debt that was spent in Texas? What about the debt incurred by Texans who were president. Like Iraq and Medicare?

Oh, I forgot. Texas rules and everyone else can suck it.

Lol. They were a president of the United States and the debt is under the name of the Federal government of the United States. It's pretty straight forward.
 
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Lol. They were a president of the United States and the debt is under the name of the United States. It's pretty straight forward.

Texas is part of the United States. I think that some of it belongs to them.

If I secede from my family, I still owe money on my house. If my wife gets it in the divorce, it's still on me until she refinances.

Or should we just all be free of our debt? Go "occupy" something...
 
But I thought slavery had nothing to do with secession. At least keep your story straight.

By the way, human beings aren't property. If you don't like that, go put on your sheets and burn a cross.

As I said, slavery was an issue. Not the cause. The cause of secession was the North's disregard of the South's protection under the Constitution.

Human beings were property until after the War between the States. Protected by the Constitution. If you don't like that then you can admit that your forebearers were traitor to the Constitution. I understand it.

Quantrill
 
It did matter in 1861. Thus the war.

That was the point. It didn't matter to the North that they were going to have their way and the south was not. Even though the South's was protected by the Constitution. They would go to war to prove it.

Quantrill
 
Texas is part of the United States. I think that some of it belongs to them.

If I secede from my family, I still owe money on my house. If my wife gets it in the divorce, it's still on me until she refinances.

Or should we just all be free of our debt? Go "occupy" something...

Man, the yankee hates to lose his money. They didn't care if the South went broke in freeing the slaves with no compensation. But now they are so afraid of the 'debt'. What hypocrits. Glory, glory, hallelujah.

Quantrill
 
Texas is part of the United States. I think that some of it belongs to them.

Party A China

Party B Federal government

Deal with it.

If I secede from my family, I still owe money on my house. If my wife gets it in the divorce, it's still on me until she refinances.

Contracts can be assholes, can't they?
 
from Centinel on the practical impact of Texas leaving the USA

Q: What happens to the federal land and buildings and workers in Texas?



They should not be allowed to leave unless they pay in full for what they keep.

As I said above, one option would be for Texas not to take federal lands at all but to leave them as owned by the US government. Personally, I favor that option, since taxes on those lands would provide a valuable source of income.

Again, they must pay their bills BEFORE being allowed to leave. That money is owed to the American people and I as an American citizen would not trust someone who is spitting on the nation and turning traitor.

So you would be satisfied if Texas paid its 7% of the US government's debt prior to secession?

Q: What happens to Texans and Social Security and Medicare?

I would go much further. Anyone staying in the foreign nation of Texas would be renouncing not only their citizenship in the USA but all benefits as well.

Q: What happens to citizens of Texas who still want to be part of the USA?

Nope. Not good enough. If they stay in Texas - they give up the USA.

Q: What happens to citizens of the other 49 states who now want to move to Texas and their Social Security and Medicare and share of the debt?

It should not be that easy. It should be punitive. It should discourage other states from simply leaving willy nilly as the mood hits them. This should be something not done easily. It should be something that comes with a high price tag both in dollars and in the loss of other benefits.

Texas would indeed be a foreign nation. But it would be unique in that it spit in the face of both America and the American people by leaving our union and giving us the middle finger salute. The rest of us should not be nice about this. The rest of us should make this as hard as possible. Texas would be a foreign nation and we should treat them as a pariah and the people of Texas should know the price they will pay for their insolence.

And that would apply to any other state which wants to go that way.

There must be a price to pay and that price should be a high one.

I am at a loss trying to understand your vindictive attitude. What particular interest is it of yours whether the people of texas are a state in the US or whether they are a friendly neighbor country like Canada? I don't understand why you have such a stake in being the boss of Texas.

Oh well, the world has always had to deal with power hungry consolidators, and empires never last forever.
 
Howdy,

Let's assume times get tough, the US dollar crashes or something of that magnitude. Would you mind Texas secession if they choose to?

:peace

Texas reminds me of the child that wants to rebel and leave home having little resources available to them to sustain themselves for long. Let them go if they want. They'll either come back with a lowered chin or find someone else to lean on until they become more mature.
 
How does it feel. How does it feel.

Didn't matter to the North in 1861-1865.

Quantrill

You know you don't actually have to put your murdering namesake's name on every post. The author of each post is identified immediately to the left.
 
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As I said above, one option would be for Texas not to take federal lands at all but to leave them as owned by the US government. Personally, I favor that option, since taxes on those lands would provide a valuable source of income.



So you would be satisfied if Texas paid its 7% of the US government's debt prior to secession?



I am at a loss trying to understand your vindictive attitude. What particular interest is it of yours whether the people of texas are a state in the US or whether they are a friendly neighbor country like Canada? I don't understand why you have such a stake in being the boss of Texas.

Oh well, the world has always had to deal with power hungry consolidators, and empires never last forever.

I just want you the hell out of my country. I'm willing to go along with whatever it takes to get that done. No fair reinstitution slavery however. Otherwise we might have to come down and whip your asses like we did the last time.
 
from Centinel

I am at a loss trying to understand your vindictive attitude.

Call it being an American patriot who does not want to see his beloved nation deteriorate before his eyes like a leper losing parts of themselves.
 
Man, the yankee hates to lose his money. They didn't care if the South went broke in freeing the slaves with no compensation. But now they are so afraid of the 'debt'. What hypocrits. Glory, glory, hallelujah.

Quantrill


It wasn't about slavery, yet every post is about "them damn Yankees taking away ouah niggahs."

Interesting how they didn't feel the need to secede over that.
 
It wasn't about slavery, yet every post is about "them damn Yankees taking away ouah niggahs."

Interesting how they didn't feel the need to secede over that.

exactly.

And then we have that stubborn piece of the historical record in which those state governments actually told us that it was slavery which was a major part of their actions. Its funny how that sort of thing seems to get in the way of their revisionism.

Declaration of Causes of Secession

And Texas particularly went out of their way to explain how slavery was so vital to them.

She (Texas) was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time

and more


In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color-- a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

and even clearer

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government *all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights* [emphasis in the original]; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.

And now we sit back while the apologists can pretend again that slavery was not a pivotal issue in secession. :roll:
 
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When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

These words are just as true today as they were in 1776. The political gulf between Austin and Washington has been growing for decades now.

Washington D.C (aka The Federal Government of the US) has interferred with the States self governance by;:

Stopping Texas from pursuing reforms of the welfare system into a work fare system

Failing to provided adequate and functional border controls

Forcing the State to comply with the racest and sexist policies of the collection of laws know collectively as Affirmative Action

Disallowing Texas to redistrict itself based upon it's own desires and has forced the unpopular redistricting based upon the racest policies of Minority Representation

Directing the State to fund, through it's budgetary processes, items which the State has chosen not to fund

Causing finacial harm and hardships through the actions of the EPA

Taking jobs out of the State based upon the States belief in Right to Work

Funding corporations and supporting market segments in other States that directly compete against existing Companies in Texas that do not receive Federal Tax funding, including segments of the market such as the production of alternative energy, which Texas is the largest creater of

etc, etc

It is very clear that the Federal Government is progressing towards a Political intity that is oppressive to the beliefs and desires of the Poeples of Texas. As there is no treaty between the Republic of Texas and the United States of America surrendering the sovreignty of the Republic of Texas, and that Texas, after accepting the Joint Resolution of Congress of the United States retained it's debt and continued to do business as the Republic of Texas for a time after joining with the United States, then the Republic of Texas has not been truely desolved and that Texas status is that of a Independent but joined sovreign Republic in it's own right and therefore has the inherent right to remove itself from said joining with the United States as it's citizens see fit.
 
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