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Are you pro life or pro choice

Are you pro life or pro choice


  • Total voters
    62
Furthermore, there is no such thing as "personally anti-abortion, but..."

That is like saying "I would not personally buy a slave, but who other people choose to buy is none of my business." Such a person supports the legality of slavery. An abolitionist of slavery would not consider such a person to be an ally, literally or intellectually.

Sure you can. It was possible at the time to be in favor of legal slavery, but find it morally wrong. Abraham Lincoln started his political career as a person who thought slavery was wrong, but did not seek to make it illegal nationwide. His position "evolved," I guess is the term now, but that was his position at one time.

Same thing for me. I favor the legality of abortion. I don't think that a person's sexual morality is an appropriate place for government. However, barring any convincing evidence to the contrary, I believe life begins at conception (though I bristle at the phrase because of it's modern political connotations). Therefore, I think it's morally wrong.

Look, I also think adultery should be "legal" in that I don't think you should go to jail for cheating on your spouse. I still think it's wrong.
 
See, technically, everyone would claim to favor "life" and "choice," which is part of why the terms pro-life and pro-choice are misleading and stupid.


Furthermore, there is no such thing as "personally anti-abortion, but..."

That is like saying "I would not personally buy a slave, but who other people choose to buy is none of my business." Such a person supports the legality of slavery. An abolitionist of slavery would not consider such a person to be an ally, literally or intellectually.

You are flat out wrong. Most pro-choice people do not favor abortions. They simply believe that it is not their choice to make. Personally, I would counsel and try to persuade any person close to me against having an abortion. However, I would NEVER seek to impose my morality on them nor would I EVER be so arrogant to believe that either myself or the government is in a better position to dictate to them what they should do. The choice is best left to the woman and her doctor. Period. End of story.
 
Really?

I get your stance, to a point, but at hte same time it at least readily identifies each group by the nomeclature that group generally chooses to use and best reflects the actual basis for the majority of those on that side's view.

I was actually going to applaud navy for putting "Pro-Choice" and not "Pro-Abortion" or somtehing of the sort. So many people ridiculsouly on both sides attempt to change the other sides designation as a means to insult, belittle, and switch up context and it was nice to see for once someone didn't do that.

I would say personally I am pro-life. I am an individual that believes there are legitimate exceptions and also believe that the issue is so opinion based in nature with no true sound way to unquestionably determine such an answer that it is more in line with our Constitution to allow it to be decided on a State by State level rather than by a one size fits all federal fiat.

Yes really. While pro-choice and pro-life work in context of abortion to an extent, they in the labels themselves do not say what the context is. Further, it is an attempt to put a positive spin on the belefe, which while not wrong does not sum up the point well. Pro-choice means some one who favors the legal right of women to have an elective abortion because they should be able to choose. Pro-life means some one who is againt the legal right of women to have an elective abortion in order to protect the life of the fetus(baby). The actual point of contention is whether it should be a legal right to have elective abortions.
 
So pray tell, recognizing the simple reality of conversation and the common societal nature of segment groups into easily named categories that makes it simple to speak about, what would you say the terms should be?
 
Why would you do that?

Because for me personally, I believe that abortion is wrong. However, thank god...as a male, I will never have to make that decision for myself. I would try to persuade the person to consider other alternatives, however, ultimately I don't believe it is up to me or the government to make that decision for them.

BTW....just to be clear. While I think that abortion is wrong, I don't equate it with murder. I don't believe that the killing of a fetus is the same as the killing of a human being. I don't buy into that anti-abortion rhetoric.
 
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So pray tell, recognizing the simple reality of conversation and the common societal nature of segment groups into easily named categories that makes it simple to speak about, what would you say the terms should be?

If it was my choice, I would use pro-right to elective abortion and anti-right to elective abortions. Not perfect but to my mind better. People are however free to call themselves whatever they want. I simply won't use the terms myself, which is my right. Since the poll question is about what I am, that I reject the terms is a legitimate answer.
 
If it was my choice, I would use pro-right to elective abortion and anti-right to elective abortions. Not perfect but to my mind better. People are however free to call themselves whatever they want. I simply won't use the terms myself, which is my right. Since the poll question is about what I am, that I reject the terms is a legitimate answer.


I also think that the term "pro-life" is not accurate. Pro who's life? and why is it that a large part of the "pro-life" crowd oppose every effort to help support the child and the child's "life" once it is born?
 
Ok let the fun start

NP...I think by all of the past postings I've seen you make on topics related to abortion...all knows that you (along with several others in this forum) consider all pro-choice to actually be "pro-abortion". That said, ( and I disagree with that stance), I sincerely wished that you would have included that in your polling options. Actually, you could have included "anti-abortion" to the list as well. I think that those folks exist as well. I say that because many pro-lifers do have exceptions such as rape, incest...yadda, yadda, yadda, where as anti-abortion don't belief in abortion for any reason.
 
Ok let the fun start

I hope this is the last time I ever have to see a discussion about abortion being with the word "fun" in it. I am 99% against abortion. It is far more complicated than you make it out to be. In the most basic terms I am pro-life though. The three women I knew that got abortions (2 Republicans imagine that) very much had the means, good health, etc to take care of a child but still got them. Those are the kind of abortions I do not like. But like anything that has to do with a woman's junk I just walk away backwards slowly, run out to the car and speed off.
 
Pro-life is opposition to legalized abortion.Pro-choice is the supporting or advocating of legalized abortion. Pro-choice is the polar opposite of pro-life.So there is no in-between or both choice.

Pro-life | Define Pro-life at Dictionary.com
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.

Pro-choice | Define Pro-choice at Dictionary.com
supporting or advocating legalized abortion.

No opinion is an in between or both choice. Having a different view federally than you do locally is an in-between or both choice.

Just because you have difficulty envisioning that others can have complex thoughts on the issue, doesn't mean everyone sees the issue in the very simple black and white way that you do.
 
John, some folks are pious only when they are on the soapbox, not while starting ****. I can almost see NP gleefully rubbing his hands together after he hit submit.

Now for all terms and conditions given, it still boils down to individual choice. Conservatives are all about personal responsibility but then also want to limit the options available. I don't see the abortion, natural or medically induced as the death of a human. They occur in nature far too often for Gawd to be against them.

I am raise an eyebrow when pro-life doesn't cover outside the womb as well.
 
I try and understand the pro choice side but I just can't do it........I am pro life and with the exception of the legitimate health of the mother and possibly in the case of rape and incest I think abortion should be illegal and any doctor who performs and illegal abortion should be arrested and tried in a court of law.....

I believe abortion is a horrific act on and innocent defenseless baby in the womb.........For pro abortion people to say that unwnated babies born just become a ward of the state which is a bold lie because there are waiting lists up to 3 years for new borns......

I hope and pray before I kick the bucket that Roe V Wade will be overturned.....54,000,000 million babies have been butchered in the womb since that law was passed and even a lot of people on the left admit it is bad law............
 
I don't care what it might be in the future or what it was in the past. I care what it is.

And what it is is an evolving biological system. Taking snap shots of biology to try to get around biology is just a form of convenience to engineer an argument.
 
.......For pro abortion people to say that unwnated babies born just become a ward of the state which is a bold lie because there are waiting lists up to 3 years for new borns......

.

Flat out lie. At least try to be somewhat honest Navy.
 
If it was my choice, I would use pro-right to elective abortion and anti-right to elective abortions.

And then I'd laugh at you because you apparently have no understanding of how conversation and society work.

Find me any labeling of a group in politics that is regularly used at that length?

What you've just established is a situation in which those who now identify as Pro-Choice would be calling everyone "Pro-Rights" and "Anti-Rights" and everyone who now identifies as Pro-Life" calling everyone "Pro-Abortoin" or "Anti-Abortoin" and both of them being technically right in their manner of shortening your absurdly long classification.

That's the issue with group classificatoins, they're broad and generalized but they have to be broad and generalized because no one wants to type out a name of a group that is almost as long as one of my posts ;)

I get that you don't want to identify as one of those labels becuase of that, but I think its rather petty and childish of you to add a post into the thread with no real answer what so ever to the topic other than to bitch about the fact the OP used the almost universally accepted non-spin versions of the name and decided to label it as "spinning"
 
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Why do you think it's wrong?

I don't personally have a problem with Abortion during the first trimester, however, I believe that once it gets to the second trimester, a decision should already have been made to carry the fetus to term. I think its wrong at that point because I believe that the fetus should be given the opportunity at birth. Like I said....I wouldn't equate it on the level of murder, but for me on a moral level it would be wrong to terminate the fetus at that point.
 
I think its wrong at that point because I believe that the fetus should be given the opportunity at birth. Like I said....I wouldn't equate it on the level of murder, but for me on a moral level it would be wrong to terminate the fetus at that point.

Why do you feel that it's wrong morally to terminate it?
 
I'm seeing some ingenious value in posting this poll outside the Abortion forum, as a number of people who don't normally play in the Abortion forum are playing in this thread, thus heterogeneously increasing the variety of opinion over the typically homogeneously limited polemic perspective normally found in the Abortion forum.

I'll probably get cards and letters on this one, but I'm neither ideology, pro-choice or pro-life.

I'm an ontologist in general with a substantive minor in epistemology, and I believe that seeking, finding, and presenting the facts and their meaningful truth leads to the most likely optimum resolution of the irrational conflict that is so pervasive in the Abortion debate.

Ultimately, if I would have to come up with a perspective on the matter that describes my personal position on the issue, I would find myself aligning in likely the only manner I do with former President Clinton, that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.

Thus I support Roe v. Wade and Webster v. Reproductive Health Services, keeping abortion safe and legal up to a humane point, and bringing the new scientific state-of-the-art essentially 100% safe, effective, and convenient conception prevention "pills" for both men and women through FDA testing and cheaply to market, continuing the journey on the road to making abortion rare.
 
Why do you feel that it's wrong morally to terminate it?

I think I've pretty much told you. I don't know how to make it more clear. I think once the fetus is viable, there has been sufficient time (during the first trimester) to have made that decision. Most all abortions take place within this period. For me, its a weighing process, once you are past that point, I give less weight to the right of choice and put more on the right of the fetus to be born. However, this is my own belief and I would never be so arrogant to believe that I have the right to impose my belief on any other person, nor do I believe that I and/or the government is in a better position than the woman and her doctor to make that decision. If someone I loved were in that position, I would certainly tell them what I think they should do, but I would make sure that they know that I would respect whatever decision that they made and I would love and support them.
 
I think I've pretty much told you. I don't know how to make it more clear. I think once the fetus is viable, there has been sufficient time (during the first trimester) to have made that decision. Most all abortions take place within this period. For me, its a weighing process, once you are past that point, I give less weight to the right of choice and put more on the right of the fetus to be born. However, this is my own belief and I would never be so arrogant to believe that I have the right to impose my belief on any other person, nor do I believe that I and/or the government is in a better position than the woman and her doctor to make that decision. If someone I loved were in that position, I would certainly tell them what I think they should do, but I would make sure that they know that I would respect whatever decision that they made and I would love and support them.

I'm not asking about your reasoning in terms of legality, I get that, I understand that...

What I want to know and better understand is why you feel the moral need to "give weight" to the fetus at all? Why is it that the fetus gains any "weight" for you on a personal level? That's what I'm asking about to better understand. And you haven't really pretty much told me. You just keep saying you feel morally its wrong or that you give more weight to the fetus, but that's telling me an action you're taking or a view point you have but not the WHY? I'm asking...why? Why is it wrong? Why do you feel a moral issue with it? Why does a fetus have "weight" for you personally.

Not asking, nor caring, about your stance with imposing it on others. I fully get and understand your stance that you do not believe your personal opinion should apply to others...but I'm trying to understand what your personal opinion is.
 
And then I'd laugh at you because you apparently have no understanding of how conversation and society work.

Find me any labeling of a group in politics that is regularly used at that length?

What you've just established is a situation in which those who now identify as Pro-Choice would be calling everyone "Pro-Rights" and "Anti-Rights" and everyone who now identifies as Pro-Life" calling everyone "Pro-Abortoin" or "Anti-Abortoin" and both of them being technically right in their manner of shortening your absurdly long classification.

That's the issue with group classificatoins, they're broad and generalized but they have to be broad and generalized because no one wants to type out a name of a group that is almost as long as one of my posts ;)

I get that you don't want to identify as one of those labels becuase of that, but I think its rather petty and childish of you to add a post into the thread with no real answer what so ever to the topic other than to bitch about the fact the OP used the almost universally accepted non-spin versions of the name and decided to label it as "spinning"


Let me quote the poll question:

Are you pro life or pro choice

I emphasized one of those words for you. It is an important one.
 
Let me quote the poll question:

I emphasized one of those words for you. It is an important one.

I know the poll question....I actually attempted to not pretend I'm obtuse or act problematic simply because I didn't like exactly how the OP phrased things and actually ansewred the question as best as possible in relation to my own views. Perhaps once you do that you can try and get back to emphasizing words in that question for me.

And answering "I'm neither as they don't actually describe me, I'm ..... [blah]" would be answering that poll questoin that's the topic. You instead just decided to bitch about the labels that are rather universally accepted and are the farthest from "spin" of any of the regularly used ways to describing the two groups. You're not a dumb person, so you at least have a decent enough understanding of what's meant by "pro-life" and "pro-choice" to still give your opinion of your own stances on things in relation to the two. However you seem to just wanted to nitpick the words rather than address the topics question which leads to these types of discussions.
 
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