Is Limited Socialism Possible In A Capitalist Economy?

So Empircia you believe we should have none of these resources yet, you or your family benefit greatly from them. So Rand, let me see if I get where you are going with this: Let us get rid of public schooling all together, as well as if poor kids can't get healthcare screw them to right? The elderly can suck it as well? Why not just move somewhere, where none of these things exist for anyone? I'm sure it's a utopia there. I know I have heard of one of these utopias...damn I can't think of what it is called though. I want to say it's asian...not China or Japan though...hmmm..

Empirica said:

My observations tell me that Socialism is never satisfied in a limited capacity and will forever be attempting to grow and spread.

The Free Dictionary defines Socialism as;
"Marxist theory- the first stage in the transition from capitalism to communism, marked by imperfect realizations of collectivist principles"

For this reason, I have always been against all federally funded social programs because I fear what socialism invariably leads to.

For the sake of argument, let's suppose that a compromise was reached that allowed for only three specific taxpayer funded social programs with the elimination of all others.

Which 3 of the 10 programs defined in the poll would you choose???

(1) Universal Healthcare
(2) Education/K-12 + 4 years higher-ed
(3) Emergency & unemployment benefits
(4) Social Security retirement/senior citizens
(5) Disability services/benefits
(6) Veterans services/benefits
(7) Planned Parenthood services
(8) Arts&Entertainment/PBS
(9) Emergency corporate/economy bailouts
(10) Illegal Alien assistance programs
(programs for american citizens only with the exception of #10)

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We already have what you refer to as limited socialism in this country: the military and medicare. The military however leans more toward communism though.

JohnWOlin said:

So Empircia you believe we should have none of these resources yet, you or your family benefit greatly from them. So Rand, let me see if I get where you are going with this: Let us get rid of public schooling all together, as well as if poor kids can't get healthcare screw them to right? The elderly can suck it as well? Why not just move somewhere, where none of these things exist for anyone? I'm sure it's a utopia there. I know I have heard of one of these utopias...damn I can't think of what it is called though. I want to say it's asian...not China or Japan though...hmmm..

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I'm sorry, didn't you get the memo, Johnny???

The US is broke, 16 trillion in debt and presently living on borrowed money.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How do you propose we pay for all of these extravagant government programs?

If you have a solution, we need you in Washington DC, not here!

Empirica said:

I'm sorry, didn't you get the memo, Johnny???

The US is broke, 16 trillion in debt and presently living on borrowed money.

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

How do you propose we pay for all of these extravagant government programs?

If you have a solution, we need you in Washington DC, not here!

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You do not present a solution. You present a right/left black/white situation. The world is not that simple. Here are a few ideas though far better than your own:

-Roll back defense and intelligence spending to pre-9/11 levels (adjusted for inflation)

-Gradually roll back all Bush tax cuts starting from the top then to the bottom

-Get rid of medicare part D

-Merge departments where it makes sense

-Tax companies higher rate that do more business outside of US, less that do more inside US

-cut loopholes in the tax code

-computerize parts of the government where it makes sense. The IRS has saved millions doing this

-Invest more in education, hence giving people more taxable income in the longrun as well as a better quality of life

I could go on with some more reasonable ideas, but if you think that taking care of elderly, and educating children is "extravagant" you probably can't be reasoned with.

Empirica said:

My observations tell me that Socialism is never satisfied in a limited capacity and will forever be attempting to grow and spread.

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This is an incredibly stupid thread.

Modern capitalism does not exist without limited socialism. All industrialized nations socializes emergency services, school, roads, highways, basic infrastructure, utilities, the judicial system, defense, environmental regulations and so on and so forth. Without the framework of limited socialism in taking off many of the costs of doing business, modern capitalism simply does not exist. Without transportation systems that are owned and operated largely by the government, commerce grinds to a halt. Without a socialized legal system, defending property rights and prosecuting those who harm us basically turns into an African mockery where the president decides the rules. Without limited socialism states largely do not exist in a workable fashion.

This thread is an utter complete failure to even understand what is necessary to run a functioning country.

Megaprogman's bold-red letters on the vote tally really stick out.

Are you joking? You picked the 3 worse ones.

Empirica said:

The US is broke, 16 trillion in debt and presently living on borrowed money.

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LOL this is stupid. So then every single bank on earth must be "broke" because of all of the "debt" it's in due to its leverage, right?

First, Any model can be made mathematically perfect. That doesn't mean it reflects reality.

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Okay, well, it's a bummer you feel that way, but it's true.

Second, the supply and demand model isn't mathematically sound.

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Supply and demand models are basic, college-level algebra. How are they not mathematically sound?