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Pro-Lifers poll

Pro-Lifers: what else do you support?

  • Against the death penalty.

    Votes: 11 61.1%
  • Against wars other than wars of pure self-defense.

    Votes: 12 66.7%
  • Support government helping the weakest amoung us with food, housing, & healthcare.

    Votes: 10 55.6%

  • Total voters
    18

Thunder

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Very simply question for Pro-Lifers:

are you also against the death penalty, wars other than wars of pure self-defense, and do you support the government using all of its resources to help the weakest amoung us?
 
Against death penalty

Against dumb wars (does not necessarily mean I am only for "defensive" wars)

support welfare state.
 
Your attempt to show hypocrisy is going to fail, since each and every one of those is entirely different than abortion. If you cannot debate abortion issues on their own merits, you probably just should not debate abortion issues.
 
Your attempt to show hypocrisy is going to fail, since each and every one of those is entirely different than abortion. If you cannot debate abortion on it's own merits, you probably just should not debate abortion.

I know they are different than abortion.

But they involve life & death.
 
I know they are different than abortion.

But they involve life & death.

Well played. Just like both you and Ghengis Khan are humans. Does not make it relevant.
 
This is part of why pro-abortion and anti-abortion are better labels.

In any event, the first two:
Against the death penalty.
Against wars other than wars of pure self-defense.

Are part of the "consistent life ethic." One does not need to oppose aggressive war or execution to be anti-abortion, but if one claims "pro-life" then other situations in which killing is inflicted may warrant questions. I'd wager more self-claimed "pro-lifers" follow the consistent life ethic, however, than there are self-claimed "pro-choicers" who are anarchists.

I do not support the death penalty, though it is not an aggressive killing, and as such, the comparison to abortion is weak. I do not support aggressive war.



However, this last one truly does not belong:
Support government helping the weakest amoung us with food, housing, & healthcare.

Whether one favors socialism or not has nothing to do with the abortion issue. I certainly do not.
 
I'm not voting because the poll is for right-to-lifers.

I'm pro-choice. I'm in favor of capital punishment. And the only wars I'm opposed to are wars I think we can't win-- which is in theory none of them, but in practice all of them because somewhere along the way our government forgot that the purpose of war is to benefit the more powerful side. We can't win wars because we've forgotten the most fundamental element of what 'winning' is-- completing objectives that produce the desired consequences.
 
This is part of why pro-abortion and anti-abortion are better labels.

No, they are not. Personally I prefer pro-right to abortion and anti-right to abortion. That is what the debate is about, whether or not it should be a right. I do admit those terms are not perfect either, but better than the ones you mention.
 
Just because two things are similar in one way does not mean they can be treated as equivalent.

I simply want to get a good take on the views of Pro-Lifers on other issues of life & death.

I wasn't gonna comment at all. I just wanted to see the poll.
 
I simply want to get a good take on the views of Pro-Lifers on other issues of life & death.

I wasn't gonna comment at all. I just wanted to see the poll.

Yeah, that's it. Sure. I got some cheap land to sell to any one who belives that.
 
In favor of Capital Punishment, but only when done correctly so that it actually serves as a deterrent.

Am also in favor of a forward leaning defense posture. This is tied to my support for life - as I see the US as a general force for good in the world. When Presidents like Obama send in SF to take out guys like the Lords Resistance Army, you'll hear nothing but cheering from me.

Am also in favor of supporting the weakest amongst us. Even Milton Friedman said that children and the disabled had the right to a level of available public support. I just want it done wisely so as to not encourage unnecessary dependence, which I believe would actually hurt those we are trying to help.
 
Your attempt to show hypocrisy is going to fail, since each and every one of those is entirely different than abortion. If you cannot debate abortion issues on their own merits, you probably just should not debate abortion issues.

I don't think anyone has (yet, that I have seen) argued in this thread that one vote or the other demonstrates hypocrisy. the question seems to be, where do you draw the lines and why.
 
HER choice, regardless.

For death penalty.

Against stupid wars we have no right to be in.

On the fence with welfare states. Depends on the situation of the person getting the assistance.
 
Last edited:
Against the death penalty
Against wars other than for self-defense
Against public assistance
 
Very simply question for Pro-Lifers:

are you also against the death penalty, wars other than wars of pure self-defense, and do you support the government using all of its resources to help the weakest amoung us?

Against the death penalty, against aggressive, interventionist wars, I can support a moderate welfare program if intelligently designed and executed. Things such as welfare, unemployment, universal healthcare, etc. become increasingly important and necessary as a society grows in size and technology. We have to pay for those things for sure, no such thing as a free lunch.

I'm also for revamping the adoption system to make it easier and less expensive, proper funding of state run orphanariums, legalization of same sex marriage to increase the number of stable 2-parent households into which children can be adopted, etc.
 
Your attempt to show hypocrisy is going to fail, since each and every one of those is entirely different than abortion. If you cannot debate abortion issues on their own merits, you probably just should not debate abortion issues.

This doesn't make any sense.

Issues are subsets of ideology. If you don't have ideology, you shouldn't debate at all.

Otherwise, you'd be contextually prejudiced. What good does that do? Situational ethics don't offer any insight for future issues yet to exist.

If this is your honest opinion, I don't see the difference between you and a computer. You're just... programmed by history.
 
Very simply question for Pro-Lifers:

are you also against the death penalty, wars other than wars of pure self-defense, and do you support the government using all of its resources to help the weakest amoung us?

I guess this is why I don't identify as pro-life.

Pro-honor is better. The death penalty applies to honor those heinously violated; preemptive wars apply to dishonorable cultures that influence your own; and a welfare state dishonors moral hazard, principal-agent conflict, and freedom of assembly.
 
Very simply question for Pro-Lifers:

are you also against the death penalty, wars other than wars of pure self-defense, and do you support the government using all of its resources to help the weakest amoung us?

None of those things do not have **** to do with the pro-life movement. It amazes me that when ever some lib-tard tries to tie in war, death penalty and public assistance to the pro-life movement that no pro-lifer tries to tie in 2nd amendment rights, school vouchers, marijuana or anything else to those labeling themselves pro choice.

Pro-life | Define Pro-life at Dictionary.com
opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.
 
Very simply question for Pro-Lifers:

are you also against the death penalty, wars other than wars of pure self-defense, and do you support the government using all of its resources to help the weakest amoung us?

There's a better question to ask based on the view point of Pro-Lifers and trying to find an analog in terms of it being non-hypocritical.

Do they support the State stepping in and taking a child away if a parent is found to be severely abusive up to and including the point where they are doing mortal harm?

The generalized arugment of a pro-lifer is that the unborn child is just that....a child. As such, the mother (or father) has no more right to terminate its life due to their responsabilities associated with the creation of said child at the point that it's inside then they have when it's alive and having to be housed/fed in a different manner. Essentially, a child is protected under the law from harm and the state has the power to put forward such protection, even against the parents wishes.

As such, lets compare that reasoning to the things you asked:

Death Penalty ... The individual being killed has been given a, theoritically, fair trial by a jury of his peers and has been found to be guilty of such a henious crime that it is allowable under the law to be punishable by death. A fact that the perpetrator would be, or easily could've made themselves, aware of prior to committing their act. In this case, there is no necessity nor reason that the state should act to defend the individual from death.

Against wars other than self defense ... First, you run into a "HUGE" ball of wax with "self defense" in terms of warfare terminology. It can be argued that something like the Iraq was was a war of "self defense". You could actually mean not engaging in wars unless we have been physically attacked first...but again, that grows issues such as "what about our allies being attacked"? Think WWI. Second, you still run into an issue where there's less belief that the United States government needs to actively work to protect everyone else in the world. IE, you're not seeing most Pro-Lifer's argue that we need to say...go to France and forcefully stop women from having abortions.

Government welfare .... Again, not an analog in the least. While we can argue to the extent that it is constitutionally mandated that the government help those who are poor off in this country, the burden and extent that the government protects children from people trying to kill them is not nearly on par with that to automatically provide "Food, housing, and health care".

It is quite simple and easy to remain ideologiclaly consistent with being "pro-life" in terms of abortion and against those things you stated.
 
There's a better question to ask based on the view point of Pro-Lifers and trying to find an analog in terms of it being non-hypocritical.

Do they support the State stepping in and taking a child away if a parent is found to be severely abusive up to and including the point where they are doing mortal harm?....

or even better, do they support the State taking a way a child if the parent is smoking around the kid? do they believe in criminal penalties for a pregnant mother who smokes or drinks?

if a ZEF is indeed a person under their argument, and should be protected by the law like any other child, should they not be protected from alcohol & tobacco poisoning?
 
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