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Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

Is the U.S. still "the land of the free"?

  • Yes, no doubt

    Votes: 19 35.8%

  • Kind of

    Votes: 16 30.2%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Not really

    Votes: 12 22.6%

  • No, not at all

    Votes: 5 9.4%

  • I don't care

    Votes: 1 1.9%
  • Total voters
    53
ARealConservative said:
nope, because the other part of that saying is gone.

We certainly aren't the home of the brave. We have become a nation of cowards. scared of poverty. scared of foreigners. scared of environmental catastrophe.
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Your always going to have radical leftists like that......I don't believe a huge majority of the population believe that and I sure don't.
 
Navy Pride said:
Your always going to have radical leftists like that......I don't believe a huge majority of the population believe that and I sure don't.
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embrace poverty... embrace china... embrace environmental catastrophe without preparing for them...

...am I the only person that reads this as highly self destructive and insane...
 
Absolutely yes.
 
Navy Pride said:
Your always going to have radical leftists like that......I don't believe a huge majority of the population believe that and I sure don't.
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the nation has moved left. The incorporation of the bill of rights has made our constitution so convoluted that nobody really agrees anymore on how to interpret it, which means we aren't a nation of laws. We are a nation of powerful men arguing about the law and changing it to fit their agenda.
 
ARealConservative said:
my state of Illinois does not allow me to carry a concealed weapon.

my wife can't cut a person's hair without government permission.

I have to donate to my retirement.

I could present a list a mile long of all the ways we have moved away from being a free society.
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1. I see no reason to carry a concealed weapon...I have weapons in my home and that is sufficient.

2. that is a way to your state to get revenue.

3. It depends where you work.....Most companies will contribute to your retirement........
 
meh America is about as free as most other countries I have visited and lived in, only major difference is that they give you more flags to wave and songs to sing.
 
ARealConservative said:
the nation has moved left. The incorporation of the bill of rights has made our constitution so convoluted that nobody really agrees anymore on how to interpret it, which means we aren't a nation of laws. We are a nation of powerful men arguing about the law and changing it to fit their agenda.
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Our country is not perfect that is true but like I said I am visited over 100 countries in my lifetime and ours is the best by far.....
 
Navy Pride said:
1. I see no reason to carry a concealed weapon...I have weapons in my home and that is sufficient.
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freedom isn't defined as being allowed to do the things Navy Pride thinks I should be allowed to do.

2. that is a way to your state to get revenue.
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slavery was a way for people to get revenue too. It is patently anti-freedom however.

3. It depends where you work.....Most companies will contribute to your retirement........
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I am speaking about forced retirement as in social security.
 
Fiddytree said:
And this was really so different from most of our history, how?
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There are men with power...

we must destroy them!

Vive la anarchie?

sigh... you need education to be a proper anarchist....
 
Or just enough crappy punk rock to feel like anarchy is just awesomeness.
 
ARealConservative said:
freedom isn't defined as being allowed to do the things Navy Pride thinks I should be allowed to do.



slavery was a way for people to get revenue too. It is patently anti-freedom however.



I am speaking about forced retirement as in social security.
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1. I hate to sound redundant but try living somewhere else and compare......If your looking for a perfect country you will never find it.......

2. That is a horrible comparison.

3. I retired at 60 and starting drawing SS at 62 and loved it.........Most are not forced to retire that early.
 
Fiddytree said:
Or just enough crappy punk rock to feel like anarchy is just awesomeness.
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Yeah... I don't actually know that much about anarchism...

international socialism is significantly cooler, but everything is irrelevant, as time goes by only constructivism will matter...
 
Navy Pride said:
1. I hate to sound redundant but try living somewhere else and compare......If your looking for a perfect country you will never find it.......
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the question is if we are the land of the free, not if we are the best nation on earth, so your reply is a straw man.

2. That is a horrible comparison.
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it was logically succinct

3. I retired at 60 and starting drawing SS at 62 and loved it.........Most are not forced to retire that early.
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I find it hard to believe SS alone is sustaining you. You draw a pension from your job of serving the country for many years, but that is beside the point.

A free person would be allowed to risk not saving for retirement as they throw that money into a business instead. That is how it used to work when the country was closer to actually being the land of the free and home of the brave.
 
notquiteright said:
When I read the answers to this sort of question I can't help but rephrase it as, "Do white fairly well off men feel we are still the best nation in terms of individual freedom?"

Blacks, and women would say the good old days were not so good.

People living in the territories may have had more personal freedom but also little if any say in national issues.

Many cowtowns had severe firearm restrictions.

Big companies ran roughshod over the legal but immigrant citizens. Big City politics was as rigged as a carnie 3 card monty game.

Corporations may bemoan the EPA but I like clean water and no acid rain.

I certainly don't like the so-called Patriot Act, but our history is littered with Alien and Sedition Acts along with suspending basic rights.

I find the travel restriction to Cuba asinine.

So I figure you have to be very selective in the points you make for or against the argument we have lost some of our freedoms to be overall less free.
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I agree a lot with this post. Mickey Shane was right. People have varying interpretations of what freedom means.

For me, an important issue of freedom in the country is gay rights. Another issue is incorporating territories such as Guam and Puerto Rico so they can have a bigger voice.

Overall, I think we are more free than we were in the past. We certainly have more rights. Integration, interracial marriage, disabled rights, and even speech we have earned more. How free were we in the 1950s? Free not to live under policies we don't like? Sure, say what you want about Obamacare but it is not an issue of freedom as some try to make it out to be. Like I said, we have bigger freedom issues plaguing this country. People use the word freedom to attack their political opponents but they fail to demonstrate a knowledge of what it means.
 
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ARealConservative said:
the question is if we are the land of the free, not if we are the best nation on earth, so your reply is a straw man.



it was logically succinct



I find it hard to believe SS alone is sustaining you. You draw a pension from your job of serving the country for many years, but that is beside the point.

A free person would be allowed to risk not saving for retirement as they throw that money into a business instead. That is how it used to work when the country was closer to actually being the land of the free and home of the brave.
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1. It goes hand in hand

2. we will have to agree to disagree.

3. Of course I have other income...I planned for my retirement when I was young never expecting to see SS. You just can not let people throw away everything they have earned because they then become dependent on welfare and my taxes....
 
Navy Pride said:
1. It goes hand in hand
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No it doesn’t. If every nation on earth except ours practices slavery, while we merely allowed indentured servitude, it wouldn’t mean we are free simply because everywhere else you visited was worse.

You just can not let people throw away everything they have earned because they then become dependent on welfare and my taxes....
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You can’t claim to live in a free nation when you allow fear of poverty to undermine liberties.

Listen my liberal comrade, self respecting conservatives don’t call investing disposable income towards a business as throwing away their earnings. That mentality of yours is a major tell in what you really think.
 
Navy Pride said:
Wow I am shocked 10 people say not really.......It is obvious that they have not seen a lot of countries and the restrictions on freedom there they might change their mind.
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You seem to have an issue clearly seeing the difference between relative freedom within the US... which this thread is about... and relative freedom compared to other countries... which this thread is not about.
 
We're not as bad as Nazi Germany or Stalinist USSR, but we're an extremely, extremely anti-freedom nation. You can be arrested and put in prison for a long time for using a drug that the government doesn't approve of, even if it's for medicinal reasons and no one else is hurt. 18 year-old adults are denied the right to even buy alcohol. We are not sexually free. It's illegal to buy or sell sexual services or for gays to marry. Our wonderful Patriot Act means you could be arrested and held without charges and no attorney if the government uses terrorism as an excuse on you. With gun ownership, we have better freedom than most nations, but you're still not allowed to own a fully automatic assault rifle such as an AR-15 or an AK-47 (except for very expensive grandfathered ones).

Our representation in government has been hijacked by corporate bribery that destroys the value of our votes. Both parties are beholden to their bribes from corporations, making them put the corporations first and the people second, and the Supreme Court validates this absurd arrangement with the worst ruling since the Dred Scott decision.

Are we the land of the free? Are you F'ing kidding me? If I were giving us a letter grade, I'd give us a D. The only reason it's not an F is because countries like North Korea exist.
 
To all the people that dont believe America is an example of freedom in the world....Please list all countries you believe are freer...

Free isnt getting and being able to do whatever you want....Free isnt having to NOT abide by any rules.....Free isnt automatically being entitled to anything you want....FREEDOM has responsiblity and and rules...FREEDOM TAKES RULES AND LAWS to keep other humans from taking your Freedom.......If you want to be totally free to do whatever you want...with blatant disregard for anyone else...find yourself a spot in the world no wheres near another human...and by all means DO WHATEVER IT IS THAT YOU THINK WILL MAKE YOU FREE...
The United States of America is more than Free enough for me...
 
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lpast said:
To all the people that dont believe America is an example of freedom in the world....Please list all countries you believe are freer...
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Why must we do that? Just because you are first in the world doesn't very much mean you are free. All it means is everyone else is worse off than you are. Understand? Is that the goal? No.


Free isnt getting and being able to do whatever you want....Free isnt having to NOT abide by any rules.....Free isnt automatically being entitled to anything you want....FREEDOM has responsiblity and and rules...FREEDOM TAKES RULES AND LAWS to keep other humans from taking your Freedom.......If you want to be totally free to do whatever you want...with blatant disregard for anyone else...find yourself a spot in the world no wheres near another human...and by all means DO WHATEVER IT IS THAT YOU THINK WILL MAKE YOU FREE...
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Learn what liberty is before you go into a rant. Thanks.

The United States of America is more than Free enough for me...
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A man that has never seen freedom and doesn't understand it can never be expected to be able to recognize when he is not free.
 
Henrin said:
Why must we do that? Just because you are first in the world doesn't very much mean you are free. All it means is everyone else is worse off than you are. Understand? Is that the goal? No.





Learn what liberty is before you go into a rant. Thanks.



A man that has never seen freedom and doesn't understand it can never be expected to be able to recognize when he is not free.
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Henrin there are some americans that have a distorted view of what they think freedom should be...Ron Paul is one of them.
Whether some americans like it or not...there has be rules to keep others from taking your freedom...there has to be a hierarchy and leadership....
NO one in a modern society can be left to their OWN DESIGNS....if you want that..go live in a cave no where near other humans and be as FREE as you want...Just because as an American you have a VERSION of what freedom should be doesnt mean its mine...
 
lpast said:
Henrin there are some americans that have a distorted view of what they think freedom should be...Ron Paul is one of them.
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Ron Paul view is distorted how?

Whether some americans like it or not...there has be rules to keep others from taking your freedom...there has to be a hierarchy and leadership....
NO one in a modern society can be left to their OWN DESIGNS....if you want that..go live in a cave no where near other humans and be as FREE as you want...Just because as an American you have a VERSION of what freedom should be doesnt mean its mine...
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I never said that I did want that, and saying the same thing again does not mean you are right about the term.
 
Henrin said:
Ron Paul view is distorted how?



I never said that I did want that, and saying the same thing again does not mean you are right about the term.
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Henrin...there is NO RIGHT NOR WRONG...with a persons perception of freedom.....there are some people in the world that are as oppressed as it gets and they are HAPPY...as spoiled americans were never happy
 
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