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What are your feelings on the Buffet Rule?

Your opinion of the Buffet Rule

  • It will hurt job creators

    Votes: 11 29.7%

  • It will raise revenue and help the economy

    Votes: 19 51.4%

  • It will promote laziness

    Votes: 7 18.9%

  • It is the definition of socialism

    Votes: 6 16.2%

  • It will help close the gap between the middle class and rich

    Votes: 16 43.2%

  • It punishes the upper tier of social darwinism

    Votes: 5 13.5%
  • Total voters
    37
Redress said:
None of the above. Raise revenue maybe a bit, but not significantly. All it does is try and ensure that if you make more, you pay a higher effective rate.
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Yeah.

What I would really like is a progressive income tax that didn't have any exemptions at all, although maybe took dependents into account.
 
TurtleDude said:
He operates under the myth of zero sum gain or pure class warfare that holds that every dollar I own or is not taking from me by a malignant government is one less dollar that he will have (but what he deserves)

if you get good grades he will argue that causes the stupid kids to get Fs. If you are a good athlete you make the lazy couch potatoes slow and unskilled
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Its not class warfare when a person running for president of the United States and makes hundreds of millions a year pays less a percentage of federal tax than a cop or firefighter or teacher...I paid personally a higher percentage of federal tax than romney.

Its not about envy or jealousy or raising more revenue, I agree raising taxs on the wealthy wont make a difference in our debt...its purely a matter of fairness with me. I posted a site in another post..I will repost it here as an example.


April 12, Washington, DC – with Tax Day approaching, a new U.S. PIRG report found the average tax filer in 2011 would have to pay $426 to make up for revenue lost from corporations and wealthy individuals shifting income to offshore tax havens. the report additionally found that if they were to cover the cost of the corporate abuse of tax havens in 2011, the average American small business would have to pay $2,116.

“When corporations shirk their tax burden by shifting profits legitimately made in the U.S. to offshore tax havens like the Caymans, the rest of us must pick up the tab through either cuts to public spending priorities, higher taxes, or more debt,” said Dan Smith, Tax and Budget Associate for U.S. PIRG and one of the report’s co-authors. “Responsible small businesses are further hurt by corporate tax dodging because they are put at a competitive disadvantage since they can’t hire armies of well paid lawyers and accountants to use offshore tax loopholes.”


Taxpayers would Pay 6 to Make Up for Tax Haven Abuse, Small Businesses ,116 | Planet News
 
samsmart said:
Yeah.

What I would really like is a progressive income tax that didn't have any exemptions at all, although maybe took dependents into account.
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exactly. that is what bi-partisan tax reform will look like. sharply lowered nominal rates combined with simplification and slightly higher effective rates.
 
cpwill said:
exactly. that is what bi-partisan tax reform will look like. sharply lowered nominal rates combined with simplification and slightly higher effective rates.
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It will never happen because too many Congressmen and Senators get too much money in campaign contributions for those who lobby them for the said exemptions, credits, etc.

I think we'd need a constitutional amendment to mandate it. Which I'm all for.
 
That's the heart of the Ryan Plan, which has already passed the House twice. I think you may be overly-cynical here :)
 
cpwill said:
That's the heart of the Ryan Plan, which has already passed the House twice. I think you may be overly-cynical here :)
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No, I'm pretty sure I'm being properly cynical.

Too many members of Congress get too much money from too many interests. And nothing stops a future Congress from voting for exemptions then. Which is probably why the GOP has no problem with passing it in the House. They vote for it now and get all the media coverage for their constituents, but then go back on it by providing exemptions in other bills later.
 
cpwill said:
That's the heart of the Ryan Plan, which has already passed the House twice. I think you may be overly-cynical here :)
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Ryans plan is as DOA as it was the first time it passed...only this time it will help obamas campaign...
 
lpast said:
Its not about revenue...its about evening the playing field and fairness...and the buffet rule makes it fairer
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so it's not about the deficit... but it's about the fact that adding 4.5% to the top income bracket will "make it fair"? really? currently taxes aren't "fair", but an additional 4.5% is what get's us there?


but let's talk about fair:

In the United States, a progressive tax system is employed which equates to higher income earners paying a larger percentage of their income in taxes. According to the IRS, the top 1% of income earners for 2008 paid 38% of income tax revenue, while earning 20% of the income reported.[46] The top 5% of income earners paid 59% of the total income tax revenue, while earning 35% of the income reported.[46] The top 10% paid 70%, earning 46% and the top 25% paid 86%, earning 67%. The top 50% paid 97%, earning 87% and leaving the bottom 50% paying 3% of the taxes collected and earning 13% of the income reported.[46]
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Yup, I'd have to agree - this doesn't sound fair at all.
 
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lpast said:
Its not about revenue...its about evening the playing field and fairness...and the buffet rule makes it fairer
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complete idiocy

if you want fairness why should the rich pay more than others
and why is a higher rate "fair"
 
cpwill said:
so it's not about the deficit... but it's about the fact that adding 4.5% to the top income bracket will "make it fair"? really? currently taxes aren't "fair", but an additional 4.5% is what get's us there?


but let's talk about fair:



Yup, I'd have to agree - this doesn't sound fair at all.
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fair is a term people who don't pay enough taxes to cover what they want in government services use to justify making those who already pay too much paying even more
 
TurtleDude said:
complete idiocy

if you want fairness why should the rich pay more than others
and why is a higher rate "fair"
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You have no clue what fair is...and if you did you wouldnt be interested in it....fairness isnt MITT ROMNEY paying paying less percentage of federal tax on 200 million than I did on whole bunch less....heres the deal turtle the real deal...the rich get out of paying alot more taxs than they pay...and most pay less a percentage than people making MILLIONS Less and corporations are raping everyone...and you can stand on your head and twirl and you cant change that.
 
cpwill said:
so it's not about the deficit... but it's about the fact that adding 4.5% to the top income bracket will "make it fair"? really? currently taxes aren't "fair", but an additional 4.5% is what get's us there?


but let's talk about fair:



Yup, I'd have to agree - this doesn't sound fair at all.
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Please...the top bracket has been cut 40% in the last 30 yrs....they are paying less now than they ever did...most big corps pay NOTHING zip zero...the rich hide their money and pay almost nothing...and STILL you whine they are paying to much and govt workers are overpaid and everyone that isnt rich has their hand out and whine cry swish swish...total utter baloney...teaparty talking point garbage...


Taxpayers would Pay 6 to Make Up for Tax Haven Abuse, Small Businesses ,116 | Planet News
 
lpast said:
You have no clue what fair is...and if you did you wouldnt be interested in it....fairness isnt MITT ROMNEY paying paying less percentage of federal tax on 200 million than I did on whole bunch less....heres the deal turtle the real deal...the rich get out of paying alot more taxs than they pay...and most pay less a percentage than people making MILLIONS Less and corporations are raping everyone...and you can stand on your head and twirl and you cant change that.
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you are the one without a clue. Mitt pays a higher effective rate than 97% of the country. he pays the same rate on investment income that I do. He pays 35% on earned income-the highest rate.

You aren't paying 35% on your income

You aren't paying 2 million a year in federal income taxes

I pay an effective rate higher than you do

indeed, most of the top one percent-those of us making between 350K to 5 Million pay the highest effective rate of any group. True billionaires pay a lower effective rate due to the fact that most of them have a far higher proportion of income from investments. But they pay the same rate I do on LIKE income


the top one percent pay 40% of the income tax burden. We only make 22% of the income and you have the unmitigated gall to claim that isn't enough

The real rape comes from all the sloths who pay nothing and constantly vote for more and more spending that they aren't willing to pay for
 
lpast said:
Please...the top bracket has been cut 40% in the last 30 yrs....they are paying less now than they ever did...most big corps pay NOTHING zip zero...the rich hide their money and pay almost nothing...and STILL you whine they are paying to much and govt workers are overpaid and everyone that isnt rich has their hand out and whine cry swish swish...total utter baloney...teaparty talking point garbage...


Taxpayers would Pay 6 to Make Up for Tax Haven Abuse, Small Businesses ,116 | Planet News
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stop the idiocy. The top one percent pay a higher percentage of the FIT burden now than at any time in the past 50 years. ITs people like you who are paying even less

envy is a pathetic reason to whine about the rich
 
lpast said:
Please...the top bracket has been cut 40% in the last 30 yrs...
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yes and as I recall the middle and lower brackets were cut right along with it.

they are paying less now than they ever did...
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actually they are paying more now, as a percentage of federal revenue than they ever have.

most big corps pay NOTHING zip zero
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this is also incorrect. walmart, for example, pays big bucks, as does any other retailer. political favorites like G.E. can get away with zero, I suppose, but the fact remains that the US Corporate tax rate is the highest in the industrialized world.

...the rich hide their money and pay almost nothing
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All I can say is that according to the IRS, you are factually incorrect. The CBO also thinks you are wrong. As does the non-partisan Tax Foundation. Now is when we find out if old dogs can learn new tricks, and whether or not you will be able to give up a piece of talking point demagoguery in the fact of contradicting evidence.
 
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TurtleDude said:
you are the one without a clue. Mitt pays a higher effective rate than 97% of the country. he pays the same rate on investment income that I do. He pays 35% on earned income-the highest rate.

You aren't paying 35% on your income

You aren't paying 2 million a year in federal income taxes

I pay an effective rate higher than you do

indeed, most of the top one percent-those of us making between 350K to 5 Million pay the highest effective rate of any group. True billionaires pay a lower effective rate due to the fact that most of them have a far higher proportion of income from investments. But they pay the same rate I do on LIKE income


the top one percent pay 40% of the income tax burden. We only make 22% of the income and you have the unmitigated gall to claim that isn't enough

The real rape comes from all the sloths who pay nothing and constantly vote for more and more spending that they aren't willing to pay for
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Sorry clueless...Romny paid 13.7% on over 200 million and he hasnt declared other income as of yet and put in for an extension..
13.7% isnt anywhere near the 35% hes supposed to be paying and lets not forget all the corps that made in the billions and paid ZERO....you cant hide from facts all you can do is what you always do...whine
 
lpast said:
Sorry clueless...Romny paid 13.7% on over 200 million and he hasnt declared other income as of yet and put in for an extension..
13.7% isnt anywhere near the 35% hes supposed to be paying and lets not forget all the corps that made in the billions and paid ZERO....you cant hide from facts all you can do is what you always do...whine
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If you use the tax code for "Supposed to be paying" you are making an idiot of yourself since that law does NOT APPLY To investment income

major fail on your case proving you are clueless about the tax code

If you are arguing that the rich ought to pay an effective rate of 35% on every dime of income no matter its source that is a philosophical argument on your part based on envy and spite with no support in the law
 
haymarket said:
Tell that to your grandchildren when they pick up the tab for what we refuse to do today.
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This EXACT same argument can be used against those who refuse to cut spending, restructure or remove entitlements, and other such things.
 
TurtleDude said:
If you use the tax code for "Supposed to be paying" you are making an idiot of yourself since that law does NOT APPLY To investment income

major fail on your case proving you are clueless about the tax code

If you are arguing that the rich ought to pay an effective rate of 35% on every dime of income no matter its source that is a philosophical argument on your part based on envy and spite with no support in the law
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No major fail...doesnt matter where his income comes from, its still EARNED income...thats the only income he has and he paid less a percentage than I did and thats just plain WRONG... no one has to be an accountant to figure out...romny on hundreds of millions paid 13.7....lpast paid more on a minisule portion of that amount, not rocket science there dudey, I NEED THE TAX cut not him and all his buddies...including you.

Turtle all your repetitive talking points have no effect on us anymore...weve all heard them 2-3000 times....check this out...The tax rate is "SUPPOSED" to be 35% the top 10 corporations paid zero and none of them pay anywhere near 35% so why do they need a tax cut, greed is why.

Heres a plan for you....GOP and DEM sit down and hash out deficit reduction....and medicare reform in a bipartisan manner, change the tax code....take ALL tax cuts and loopholes off the rich and make tax havens outside of the country illegal....then if theres enough revenue coming in and debt reduction and the debt is dropping....THEN start dropping the tax rate....not when your taking from everyone else... The teaparty wants to take from everyone else and give to the 1% yeah ok...pfffffffffffffft.....they arent the only tax payers..
 
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lpast said:
Heres a bit information I found interesting, that bolstered my agreement with the buffet rule.

April 12, Washington, DC – with Tax Day approaching, a new U.S. PIRG report found the average tax filer in 2011 would have to pay $426 to make up for revenue lost from corporations and wealthy individuals shifting income to offshore tax havens. the report additionally found that if they were to cover the cost of the corporate abuse of tax havens in 2011, the average American small business would have to pay $2,116.
“When corporations shirk their tax burden by shifting profits legitimately made in the U.S. to offshore tax havens like the Caymans, the rest of us must pick up the tab through either cuts to public spending priorities, higher taxes, or more debt,” said Dan Smith, Tax and Budget Associate for U.S. PIRG and one of the report’s co-authors. “Responsible small businesses are further hurt by corporate tax dodging because they are put at a competitive disadvantage since they can’t hire armies of well paid lawyers and accountants to use offshore tax loopholes.”

Taxpayers would Pay 6 to Make Up for Tax Haven Abuse, Small Businesses ,116 | Planet News
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Excellent point! Why should the working class and small businesses agree to pay more so that large corporations and wealthy individuals pay a lower tax rate, especially given that the tax breaks aren't being used to create jobs in this country.
 
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