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Is he lying?

Your instinct ... is Zimmerman lying about what took place?

  • Total voters
    57
Excon said:
I guess you didn't read what came before.
Zimmerman was not told anything. "We don't need you to that." is not being 'told' anything. It is not an instruction or an order. It was a suggestion that he had no obligation to follow. The Police Chief has even stated that is was only a suggestion and that he was under no obligation to follow.

Following anybody for the purposes of keeping them under observation until police arrive is not wrong.
It is actually appropriate.

He does not need to be arrested.
An investigation was conducted. There was no evidence that contradicted his statement, but evidence that was consistent with and corroborated it.
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The guy followed the kid kid defended himself after being approved by said guy. Guy kills kid. Manslaughter. That's the position the prosecution should have taken. That's the proof by the phone calls/transcripts.

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Peter Ilyich said:
Zimmerman's conversation with the 911 dispatcher directly before the altercation support his claim that he had lost sight of Martin, Martin's girlfriend confirms that it was Martin who confronted Zimmerman about being followed, eye witnesses support his claim that he was on the ground, injuries treated by EMS officials are consistent with both eye witnesses and Zimmerman's version of the events, and observations by the police of blood and grass stains on Zimmerman's clothing corroborate his statements.

Cutcher and Lamilla only saw after the gun shot. It seems incredibly reasonable to assume Zimmerman was initially unaware of how injured Martin was but leapt to his feet to subdue Martin, which is completely consistent with the women's claim of him pressing his hands to his back, then let up as he realized Martin was dead, which again is consistent with their claims.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I just don't see how you could come to the conclusion that he must be lying when his version of the events is supported by virtually all the facts.
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yup manslaughter

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fyrenza said:
I fluking LURVE you!!!
BunnyHugz.gif
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You do realize that, if that is true, than Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter right?

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xpiher said:
The guy followed the kid kid defended himself after being approved by said guy. Guy kills kid. Manslaughter. That's the proof by the phone calls/transcripts.
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lol
It is not "proof" of anything.
You might want to look that word up. Using a legal dictionary would be even better.

The evidence is consistent with Zimmerman's statement.

You can not just attack someone because they followed you.
Trayvon was in the wrong here.


xpiher said:
yup manslaughter
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Justifiable homicide, by Self Defense.
 
xpiher said:
The guy followed the kid kid defended himself after being approved by said guy.
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Approved?! That's only slightly less ridiculous than the rest of the post unless you have some insider information not available to the rest of us.
 
jamesrage said:
In all honesty I don't know if he is lying or not.Zimmerman could be lying and stalked and killed Martin or Zimmerman was merely defending himself against Martin. IF Zimmerman was defending himself then the media is blatantly guilty of yellow Journalism,which wouldn't be the first time nor the last.If it is found out that the media is guilty of yellow journalism then they should be held liable for any damages and any cost to tax payers like police protection for Zimmerman.
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And more than that, since he and his family have had to go into hiding due to death threats, him thrown out of college etc.
 
Dion said:
wow Xcon ... You are about the first poster who believes there should be no trial!
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On the evidence now of course there should be no trial. You do not indict all suspects and send the to a trial for a jury to sort it out. Unless the prosecutor is confident he/she has a case to show precisely what happened beyond a reasonable doubt and to the exclusion of other possibilities (Florida standard), no one should be arrested, indicted, and taken to trial - in jail the year or more until that happens.

NEVER should a case be taken to trial when it unknown for sure what happened. I think you will find all except those who want Zimmerman punished regardless of law and due process of law agree. Even those who think what he did was ethically wrong - but aren't just fantatical - agree that the rules of law and presumption of innocence apply to Zimmerman the same as everyone else.

Trials are NOT to try to figure out what happened. They are ONLY suppose to happen if the state/prosecutor is certain what happened and then asked for all 12 jurors to 100% agree. Trials are investigations or run-it-up-the-flag-pole like a crap-shoot.
 
xpiher said:
The guy followed the kid kid defended himself after being approved by said guy. Guy kills kid. Manslaughter. That's the position the prosecution should have taken. That's the proof by the phone calls/transcripts.

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yup manslaughter

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You do realize that, if that is true, than Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter right?

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No, there is no evidence to support that and why do you say "manslaughter" rather than murder anyway if that is how you feel about it? And your rationale is based on how you "feel," not the witnesses, facts and evidence.
 
There's no doubt in my mind Zimmerman is responsable for the death of Trayvon. If but for Zimmerman, Martin would be alive.

That said, whether or not he was legally responsable, if it was racially motivated, etc are all up in the air and making judgement calls on it right now is just unwise.

There's a ton of conflicting evidence with nothing but personal judgements and biases playing into which ones people decide are credible and which ones aren't. The case absolutely needs to be looked into, but beyond that the legal system needs to play out.

For all those that try and claim this is race, lets back up a bit and be honest as well. Is the fact its such a huge story based around the notion that it was portrayed as a "white man" (later it's been found to be a half-hispanic man) show a "black kid". In 2010, also in Florida, you had an instance where a person with a gun interjected himself into a situation he had no business interjecting himself into. The actions of said individual caused some witnesses to claim that the victim "attacked" first, leading to the initial guy shooting and killing the victim. That case too did not end in a conviction or even a real trial as the shooter was not responsable under the law. While that story wasn't a man killing a teen, it was a man killing another man in front of his victim's 8 year old daughter, so still had a heartstring pulling angle to it.

That time, it was the Black Guy who was the shooter that was not brought to trial and the White Guy who died. However, that one didn't beome national news.

For all those jumping on the racist bandwagon, I'd suggest holding off and also understanding that notion cuts both ways. And in regards to the case overall, I think we need to stop trying the case in the court of public opinion (even though I know that will never happen) and let this process play out. Beyond a doubt, regardless of the outcome, this is an unfortunate and sad event that frankly did not have to happen.
 
Meathead said:
The point here is that we have taken it upon ourselves to be judge and jury with a threadbare amount of information which could neither absolve nor convict anyone in any court of law. Discussing the issue of the "Stand Your Ground" law is probably fair enough, but to judge one's guilt or innocence even as toothlessly as on this forum is grounded in bias and ignorance alone, as evidenced by the usual suspects on either side lining up on the issue in typical knee-jerk fashion.
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I am soooooo tired of the media trying to turn this into the political debate on "stand your ground" since that has NOTHING to do with this and Zimmerman's lawyer has clearly stated that is not Zimmerman's defense or unique to Florida. That is just the national media doing contortions and deliberate distortions for political goals. Zimmerman's defense applies in every state. "Self Defense."
It isn't a stand your ground issue. Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground. He was on the ground and Martin bashing his head into the concrete sidewalk.
 
joko104 said:
I am soooooo tired of the media trying to turn this into the political debate on "stand your ground" since that has NOTHING to do with this and Zimmerman's lawyer has clearly stated that is not Zimmerman's defense or unique to Florida. That is just the national media doing contortions and deliberate distortions for political goals. Zimmerman's defense applies in every state. "Self Defense."
It isn't a stand your ground issue. Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground. He was on the ground and Martin bashing his head into the concrete sidewalk.
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I think stand your ground law is to be questioned here. It does appear he didn't stand but followed. He got out of his car as I understand it and did more than watch. But, as has been said, they are investigating.

As heard on the 911 tapes, Zimmerman got out of his car and began to follow Trayvon. At some point, he was told by the dispatcher that he did not need to follow the teen.
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Trayvon Punched, Slammed Zimmerman's Head: Cops | Reuters

As some editorials have argued, the law may well lead to hot heads and the over zealous going too far.
 
Dion said:
Yet, we have Zimmerman"s own words that he is following the kid. Zimmerman did not observe the kid on private property or harassing anyone. The kid was walking in the public street and tapes documented he had just been to the store and purchased candy.

I have a kid that age ...that is skinny and gangly and likes to go to the store and get skittles. Zimmerman felt the kid was acting odd yet I view Zimmerman as acting really odd. He is not trained in law enforcement and had no reason whatsoever to brandish a lethal weapon at that kid.

Honestly ...from a female standpoint ... that big dumb idiot guy sounds like a real pu$$y to have reached for his gun in light of the his own phone call and the facts ( Zimmerman could have defended himself easily with a kid weighing almost half of his own mass and Zimmerman was the one stalking and no witnesses that saw the supposed punch)

My kid wears a hooded sweatshirt in spring weather ... if stalked by a guy that looked like Zimmerman he would be scared. If harassed enough or provoked he might throw a punch and he does not get in fights.

Zimmerman deserves a fair trial ... yet the police are suspect in my opinion to simply have accepted Zimmerman's far out story.

There needs to be a trial yet I suspect Zimmerman was not racist ... just a low self esteem idiot playing tough guy. The police ...? I do wonder if some racism was involved ... and the whole story of Zimmerman ... stinks.

The media ... has reported new details and although I agree with media reporting from corporate networks is trash ... the parents had to get the media's attention in order to even have Zimmerman questioned.

The police failed ... as they had no evidence and arrived to find the kid dead with no weapon and weighing almost half of Zimmerman's weight and knew that Zimmerman had followed the kid by his own admission to the 911 operator.

Another thought ... I wondered if Zimmerman had serious mental health issues.

Whatever happened ... no investigation? Get real ... if that were my kid I would have called every network I detest (Fox, MSNBC etc) and hired a private firm to investigate.
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There are witnesses that say Martin was attacking Zimmerman.Which if this is the case then Zimmerman had the right to use lethal force to defend himself. You can't judge someone's ability to fight based on the most innocent looking picture the alleged assailant's parents can find. I do not think the police oh yeah the guy shot is black, no big deal, charges dropped.
 
Zyphlin said:
There's no doubt in my mind Zimmerman is responsable for the death of Trayvon. If but for Zimmerman, Martin would be alive.
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There's no doubt in my mind Trayvon is responsible for the death of Trayvon. If but for Trayvon, Trayvon would still be alive.
I say that because there was nothing wrong with Zimmerman's actions of trying to keep Trayvon under observation until the police arrive.
It simply isn't wrong or criminal to do.
Doesn't matter if Trayvon didn't like it or was scared or anything.
He is the one who acted wrongly first.

Trayvon acting out violently is wrong and he is therefore responsible for his own death.

This opinion subject to change if new evidence comes out that actually renders Zimmerman's statement void.



Zyphlin said:
There's a ton of conflicting evidence
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Actually there isn't. We may not have all of it, but we certainly have a conclusion that was originally reached from all the evidence.
No evidence exists to contradict Zimmerman's statement.
 
I suspect he is withholding lots of the truth and only leaking out what he feels favors him.

In the end, he stuck his nose where it did not belong and now a kid is dead at his hand.

from Excon

There's no doubt in my mind Trayvon is responsible for the death of Trayvon. If but for Trayvon, Trayvon would still be alive.
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And it is your certainty which is so frightening.
 
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haymarket said:
I suspect he is withholding lots of the truth and only leaking out what he feels favors him.

In the end, he stuck his nose where it did not belong and now a kid is dead at his hand.

from Excon

And it is your certainty which is so frightening.
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Absolutely agree. This is a real toughie, no doubt about it. It is very difficult not to see both sides here. I can't remember the last time I've been so conflicted on an issue. In the end, it's about proof that Zimmerman's accounting of events is incorrect. Without that proof, it's game-over.
 
Meathead said:
Approved?! That's only slightly less ridiculous than the rest of the post unless you have some insider information not available to the rest of us.
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It was an auto correct by my phone. The kid was approached by the guy, got into a fight with him, and the guy killed him. These facts aren't disputed. Now, according to the FL stand your ground law, the kid had a right to defend himself from the person following him if he felt threatened. If the phone records are factual (which you seem to agree with) then Zimmer should be charged with at least manslaughter. I say manslauter because, given his actions, there doesn't seem to be an intent to kill the kid; however, there wouldn't have been an altercation had Zimmer not followed the kid or got out of hid car etc. If I was being followed for several blocks then I would feel threatened.

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If lie detector tests are used routinely on TV shows from Steve Wilkos to Judge Ross, why not use one here?

That way all the speculation can come to an end.
 
Wake said:
If lie detector tests are used routinely on TV shows from Steve Wilkos to Judge Ross, why not use one here?

That way all the speculation can come to an end.
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I would never take a lie detector test. Also, are they even admissible in court?
 
Wake said:
If lie detector tests are used routinely on TV shows from Steve Wilkos to Judge Ross, why not use one here?

That way all the speculation can come to an end.
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Ok. When would you like to take your test?

And do you know exactly when they are admissible in court? lol

At the same time even, just a fraction slower. lol
 
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xpiher said:
The kid was approached by the guy, ... These facts aren't disputed.
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Wrong.
The evidence as known is that Trayvon approached Zimmerman. That is not disputed.
 
Wake said:
If lie detector tests are used routinely on TV shows from Steve Wilkos to Judge Ross, why not use one here?

That way all the speculation can come to an end.
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That's the call of Zimmerman's defense attorney, since no one can be forced to take a lie detector test. Refusing to cooperate and take a lie detector test is not admissible in court.

ThePlayDrive said:
I would never take a lie detector test. Also, are they even admissible in court?
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In some courts and in some states, they are. But in those states, both parties must stipulate before the test is given that the results will be admissible. In many jurisdictions, even the mention of a polygraph is enough to get a mistrial.
 
Excon said:
Wrong.
The evidence as known is that Trayvon approached Zimmerman. That is not disputed.
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It's actually disputed by the girlfriend's account and Martin's lawyer who is using the girlfriend's account. You have been told this several times now. I don't know why you continue to repeat the same misinformation.
 
ric27 said:
Why? Theres no evidence that Zimmerman committed a crime

Instead of looking at the facts of the shooting, you are looking at the overall "emotion" of the shootings

Do not approach this delicate subject based on feelings and emotions. Base it on facts and evidence
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Speak for yourself.

I am looking at the facts as known and those facts support that there should have been a thorough investigation that was evidence based.
 
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