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Is he lying?

Your instinct ... is Zimmerman lying about what took place?

  • Total voters
    57
If a kid was in my house and I freaked and shot him and even rightfully so ... I would call for an ambulance once he/she was down. That is what an honest citizen would do in such an event.

The fact the kid was walking down a public street and within a few minutes of Zimmerman admitting he was following the kid he shoots him and then stands on his body and does not call an ambulance?

IMHO ... wth did the parents let so much time pass without alerting the whole world?

I live in a very nice professional neighborhood ... no one would tolerate having that unvetted idiot running around playing cop. I would be afraid he would shoot innocent people. I would be suspect of a man that called 911 so many times and wanted to run around my neighborhood.

Neighborhood Watch Associations abide by rules to keep everyone as safe as possible.
 
Dion said:
If a kid was in my house and I freaked and shot him and even rightfully so ... I would call for an ambulance once he/she was down. That is what an honest citizen would do in such an event.

The fact the kid was walking down a public street and within a few minutes of Zimmerman admitting he was following the kid he shoots him and then stands on his body and does not call an ambulance?

IMHO ... wth did the parents let so much time pass without alerting the whole world?

I live in a very nice professional neighborhood ... no one would tolerate having that unvetted idiot running around playing cop. I would be afraid he would shoot innocent people. I would be suspect of a man that called 911 so many times and wanted to run around my neighborhood.

Neighborhood Watch Associations abide by rules to keep everyone as safe as possible.
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This. The staking itself is incriminating enough

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Goshin said:
We also know that Zimmerman was injured with injuries consistent with assault.
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You have no clue they are consistent with assault and there is no medical report. You have no clue where George's injuries came from or why and most of his injuries are self described. Martin was unarmed and when shot Zimmerman did not call an ambulance. Shame on him for that. He had no business following or haraasing the kid and the police were already on their way to the neighborhood.

If that guy followed me and I was unarmed ... if he pulled up next to me in his car and opened the door I would kick it shut and he could have a broken nose and cut to his head.

Again, innocent until proven guilty ... yet that this could sit on a shelf so long with only this guy's story and an unarmed dead kid who moments before was buying candy.

I am happy to see the unified public outcry for an investigation.
 
Dion said:
You have no clue they are consistent with assault and there is no medical report. You have no clue where George's injuries came from or why and most of his injuries are self described. Martin was unarmed and when shot Zimmerman did not call an ambulance. Shame on him for that. He had no business following or haraasing the kid and the police were already on their way to the neighborhood.

If that guy followed me and I was unarmed ... if he pulled up next to me in his car and opened the door I would kick it shut and he could have a broken nose and cut to his head.

Again, innocent until proven guilty ... yet that this could sit on a shelf so long with only this guy's story and an unarmed dead kid who moments before was buying candy.

I am happy to see the unified public outcry for an investigation.
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I am glad there is going to be a full investigation as well.

Where I get off and have problems is people convicting Zimmerman and hanging him in the court of public opinion without bothering to consider all the facts or the foremost principle of American law, "innocent until proven guilty".

When I hear the New Black Panthers are offering ten grand for Zimmerman, dead or alive, I have a problem.


When I see race-baiters trying to turn this into a huge conflict over race, I have a problem.
 
xpiher said:
This. The staking itself is incriminating enough

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True and I would think the Stand Your Ground law would apply to defend Martin since Zimmerman admitted following him.

The injuries of Zimmerman were self described ... and Zimmerman described following the unarmed kid that Zimmerman weighed almost double. Martin's lethal injury a few moments later are time documented by the coroner's officer and records show he WAS talking to his girlfriend at the very moment Zimmerman reported following him.
 
Goshin said:
I am glad there is going to be a full investigation as well.

Where I get off and have problems is people convicting Zimmerman and hanging him in the court of public opinion without bothering to consider all the facts or the foremost principle of American law, "innocent until proven guilty".

When I hear the New Black Panthers are offering ten grand for Zimmerman, dead or alive, I have a problem.


When I see race-baiters trying to turn this into a huge conflict over race, I have a problem.
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I am only guessing ... and it does need a trial and yet I suspect Zimmerman was simply another low esteem guy with mental issues as opposed to a racist.

Yet, seriously if it had been a 140 lb blue eyed blonde girl ... the police would have arrested him on the spot. I do suspect unintended racisms is involved with the police.

There is still a color line in this country (W.E.B. Du Bois) despite laws and so race is an issue in this case.

Yet, I completely disapprove and stand against of the public statements of the Black Panthers and the KKK! both of those groups are really out of line ... yet race does come into play.

Young men are targeted more often by cops than young women for equal behaviors and young black men even more so ...
 
Dion said:
I am only guessing ... and it does need a trial and yet I suspect Zimmerman was simply another low esteem guy with mental issues as opposed to a racist.

Yet, seriously if it had been a 140 lb blue eyed blonde girl ... the police would have arrested him on the spot. I do suspect unintended racisms is involved with the police.

There is still a color line in this country (W.E.B. Du Bois) despite laws and so race is an issue in this case.

Yet, I completely disapprove and stand against of the public statements of the Black Panthers and the KKK! both of those groups are really out of line ... yet race does come into play.

Young men are targeted more often by cops than young women for equal behaviors and young black men even more so ...
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LEOs don't arrest people for a crime unless there is sufficient, albeit preliminary, evidence of one. He was carrying a gun for which he had a license to carry; he'd call 911 to report a suspicious person; the only witness was him; he himself was injured; they handcuffed him; took him to the police station for questioning; and the account he gave passed the initial sniff test; plus they found no contradictory evidence at the scene that warranted charging him with a crime.

What would you have charged him with?
 
MaggieD said:
LEOs don't arrest people for a crime unless there is sufficient, albeit preliminary, evidence of one. He was carrying a gun for which he had a license to carry; he'd call 911 to report a suspicious person; the only witness was him; he himself was injured; they handcuffed him; took him to the police station for questioning; and the account he gave passed the initial sniff test; plus they found no contradictory evidence at the scene that warranted charging him with a crime.

What would you have charged him with?
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He is a killer. A grown armed man chased down a unarmed kid and killed him.
 
MaggieD said:
LEOs don't arrest people for a crime unless there is sufficient, albeit preliminary, evidence of one. He was carrying a gun for which he had a license to carry; he'd call 911 to report a suspicious person; the only witness was him; he himself was injured; they handcuffed him; took him to the police station for questioning; and the account he gave passed the initial sniff test; plus they found no contradictory evidence at the scene that warranted charging him with a crime.

What would you have charged him with?
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manslaughter at least because he stalked the kid


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xpiher said:
manslaughter at least because he stalked the kid


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Stalking is a perjorative. It is not against the law to follow someone.
 
MaggieD said:
Stalking is a perjorative. It is not against the law to follow someone.
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It shows hostile intent.

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kenvin said:
He is a killer. A grown armed man chased down a unarmed kid and killed him.
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I find you interesting. Most of the posters on this subject haven't said that. They've argued that it should be investigated; that Zimmerman was wrong; hell, I myself did that. But you? You call him a killer. Are you African-American, Kenvin?
 
MaggieD said:
I find you interesting. Most of the posters on this subject haven't said that. They've argued that it should be investigated; that Zimmerman was wrong; hell, I myself did that. But you? You call him a killer. Are you African-American, Kenvin?
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I am white. I know bs. An armed grown man stalked and killed a kid.
 
MaggieD said:
LEOs don't arrest people for a crime unless there is sufficient, albeit preliminary, evidence of one. He was carrying a gun for which he had a license to carry; he'd call 911 to report a suspicious person; the only witness was him; he himself was injured; they handcuffed him; took him to the police station for questioning; and the account he gave passed the initial sniff test; plus they found no contradictory evidence at the scene that warranted charging him with a crime.

What would you have charged him with?
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Whose premise that it passed the "sniff test"?

Wrong ... there were witnesses, circumstantial and forensic evidence.

He should be charged as a person of interest in the murder of a kid and not allow him to leave the city until a complete investigation was concluded. At the point of the investigation he would either be charged or not ...

sniff test?

They cannot decide in a few hours there is no contradictory evidence ... no autopsy, no witness interviews ...

His lawyer even stated that the injuries were self described and he has not seen evidence of the injuries at this point in time.

A few hour "sniff test" when a kid is walking unarmed and shot by a guy twice his size who admits following him.

Also cell records have been documented the kid was on the phone to his gf while being followed.
 
Dion said:
Whose premise that it passed the "sniff test"?

Wrong ... there were witnesses, circumstantial and forensic evidence.
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I hate getting into this because I'm taking the opposite side I've taken for several days. But out of respect, I'll respond. Please link me to what forensic evidence they found that night.

He should be charged as a person of interest in the murder of a kid and not allow him to leave the city until a complete investigation was concluded. At the point of the investigation he would either be charged or not ...
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There's no such charge as "a person of interest."

sniff test?
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Never heard that expression? Google.

They cannot decide in a few hours there is no contradictory evidence ... no autopsy, no witness interviews ...
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Cops don't arrest people until they can charge them. An autopsy may take a month or more. You would have him arrested and held that long without charges? Not in the USA, you won't. You don't think they interviewed people at the scene that very night? I think you'd be wrong.

His lawyer even stated that the injuries were self described and he has not seen evidence of the injuries at this point in time.
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What his lawyer says means nothing. The cops noted that he was injured when they arrived at the scene.

Also cell records have been documented the kid was on the phone to his gf while being followed.
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What possible difference does it make that Martin was on the phone while he was being followed? Zimmerman never denied that.
 
Goshin said:
I am glad there is going to be a full investigation as well.

Where I get off and have problems is people convicting Zimmerman and hanging him in the court of public opinion without bothering to consider all the facts or the foremost principle of American law, "innocent until proven guilty".

When I hear the New Black Panthers are offering ten grand for Zimmerman, dead or alive, I have a problem.


When I see race-baiters trying to turn this into a huge conflict over race, I have a problem.
Click to expand...

The KKK and Black Panthers do not represent the majority of white or black people.

Most who were outraged by the lack of investigation were not race baiters.

The outrage by law abiding citizens began because no real investigation concluded before they let this man walk with no ongoing investigation. That extreme from our public officials bothers me far more. Yes i detest extremist groups like the KKK and the Panthers yet do not lose sight of the fact the initial extreme began with Zimmerman and then the police by not investigating an unarmed kid lying dead with a guy almost twice his size self admitted to following and witnessed standing on the kid's dead body ( no call for an ambulance) by credible neighbors.
 
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Another point ... if Traevon followed George down a public street and then had shot an unarmed George with nothing but skittles from the store and cell phone records proving George was talking to his gf and then Traevon stood on Georges dead body without calling for medical aid ... I bet Traevon would not pass the "sniff test".
 
xpiher said:
MaggieD said:
xpiher said:
manslaughter at least because he stalked the kid
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Stalking is a perjorative. It is not against the law to follow someone.
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It shows hostile intent.
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MaggieD is correct, It is a pejorative.
Following another person to keep them under observation until the police arrive, is not wrong.
Is not illegal.
Is not criminal.
Is not stalking.
Is not harassment.
And does not show hostile intent.
 
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Excon said:
MaggieD is correct, It is a pejorative.
Following another person to keep them under observation until the police arrive, is not wrong.
Is not criminal.
Is not stalking.
And does not show any hostile intent.
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Following a kid who has committed no crime and pulling a gun then killing the kid sure seems like criminal stalking and hostile intent.
 
MaggieD said:
I hate getting into this because I'm taking the opposite side I've taken for several days. But out of respect, I'll respond. Please link me to what forensic evidence they found that night.
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That is my point ... they had not taken forensic evidence.



MaggieD said:
There's no such charge as "a person of interest."
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Yes they do detain people of high suspicion of murder. If I shoot you and simply tell them I was afraid of you walking in my neighborhood ... when they have clear evidence I followed you ... even when you ran away from me ... I would be detained!


MaggieD said:
Never heard that expression? Google.
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Yes ... I have heard the expression and it usually reference drug sniff not a loose "sniff test" of one person's account. Hmmm how would Traevon have sniffed out had it been reversed?

That was the issue ... they simply took one man's word for it despite clear evidence he pursued a running away unarmed kid. Did you listen to the tape?


MaggieD said:
Cops don't arrest people until they can charge them. An autopsy may take a month or more. You would have him arrested and held that long without charges? Not in the USA, you won't. You don't think they interviewed people at the scene that very night? I think you'd be wrong.
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If they did then it is worse ... as the first observer reported 230+ lb George standing on the 140 lb kid's dead body and making no effort to call for medical aid.

The other witness (gf) was checked out on a phone record and it correlated to 911 dispatcher call that Traebon was talking on the phone while running away from George.


MaggieD said:
What his lawyer says means nothing. The cops noted that he was injured when they arrived at the scene.
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What his lawyer says means nothing?



MaggieD said:
What possible difference does it make that Martin was on the phone while he was being followed? Zimmerman never denied that.
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Do you even understand your own question? (note the word followed). The 911 tapes report George saying the kid ran away and the fact Traebon was talking on the phone during the time George and the gf reported the same story as George ... Traebon saw George following and went the other way as reported by gf and George himself.

There was more than enough evidence to hold George for shooting an unarmed kid.
 
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MaggieD said:
I hate getting into this because I'm taking the opposite side I've taken for several days. But out of respect, I'll respond. Please link me to what forensic evidence they found that night.



There's no such charge as "a person of interest."



Never heard that expression? Google.



Cops don't arrest people until they can charge them. An autopsy may take a month or more. You would have him arrested and held that long without charges? Not in the USA, you won't. You don't think they interviewed people at the scene that very night? I think you'd be wrong.



What his lawyer says means nothing. The cops noted that he was injured when they arrived at the scene.



What possible difference does it make that Martin was on the phone while he was being followed? Zimmerman never denied that.
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Martin was on a headset.

To the best I've been able to discern, NOBODY knew of the call till some time later.

Zims story differs from the girls as to the verbal exchange between the two.

Haven't been able to determine if the girls statement was made before or after Zimmermans was made public.

If there is no reason to believe she knew what Zim claims to have happened, he may have some explaining to do.
 
I think he could be lying but in my opinion that isn't the issue here. The issue is that armed people outside of law enforcement should not be following other people in their community. Its a recipe for disaster.
 
What if...? said:
To the best I've been able to discern, NOBODY knew of the call till some time later.
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Only two choices.
It was either known of and part of the original investigation. Or it wasn't and only came out after he was cleared.
But since what we know of her statement is consistent with what we know of his, it hasn't changed anything.



What if...? said:
Zims story differs from the girls as to the verbal exchange between the two.
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Her known statements are consistent with his. What she says could very well have been said in "conjunction with".
But they do not at this time contradict each other.



What if...? said:
If there is no reason to believe she knew what Zim claims to have happened, he may have some explaining to do.
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And there very well maybe a reason not to believe anything she says.
The article I provided earlier about the release of her statements included a picture of the call record with her call starting at 7:12.
And then reported that a minute later Tray was dead at 7:17.

If the times the reporter obtained are true, then the girlfriend is lying.

Zimmerman was still on the horn with the dispatcher at 7:17, so there would have been no way she heard anything between them.
 
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Dion said:
Is Zimmerman lying ... by all accounts imho it seems he is.
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By all accounts based on the known evidence, Zimmerman is not lying.
 
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