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Should unapproved lemonade stands be illegal?

Should unapproved lemonade stands be illegal?

  • Yes, the law is the law... string 'em up!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, quit being so anal.

    Votes: 35 87.5%
  • This one's a toughie. I can't decide.

    Votes: 1 2.5%
  • Other.

    Votes: 4 10.0%

  • Total voters
    40
all we need is one time, some crazy ****ing pyscho to lace his kid's lemonade from the lemonade stand....with arsenic or anti-freeze.

and this whole debate will be over.

That's all we need at a food truck, McDonald's, Burger King, wherever. Yours is the mindset that makes a 6-year-old's lemonade stand illegal.
 
all we need is one time, some crazy ****ing pyscho to lace his kid's lemonade from the lemonade stand....with arsenic or anti-freeze.

and this whole debate will be over.

This event is a toughie..
Permits are not likely to deter this crime.....
 
This event is a toughie..
Permits are not likely to deter this crime.....

there are requirements, safety requirements, and inspections..and classes..to get a food vender license.

which means that in a perfect world, kids can't sell lemonade on the sidewalk.

but unfortunately, it wil take a tragic act of sadistic murder, to stimulate such a law.
 
Why don't left wing ****wads just get a life and leave the lemonaid kids alone?

The leftists are a bunch of psychotic weirdo sociopaths.
 
Should unapproved lemonade stands be illegal? Or, is this a prime example of bureaucrats and government going beyond their legitimate bounds?

Every so often, almost like clockwork, there will be a news story about a kids lemonade stand being shut down because they don't have proper permits, health inspections, or whatever. A good example this the recent John Stossel report linked in this thread.

Personally, I am torn. On the one hand... it's kids trying to make some money... and doing something both educational and constructive in the process. Especially when the business license/permit thing comes in. Give it a break and leave the kids alone. I'm a believer that the intent of the law is more important than the letter of the law (in most instances), and I don't see any harm being done here. Not to local businesses, not to anybody. The government and other strict law-and-order types will lose me every time if they try and argue this point.

Where the other hand comes in is the health angle. Part of me again wants to say "they're just kids", but I am also old enough to remember what is a more relatively innocent time when the vast majority of kids wouldn't dick with other people by putting something unhealthy in the lemonade they're selling. Just for their own 'fun'. Granted, most kids still wouldn't, but in today's society I think some would.

What say you?
No, they shouldn't be illegal. And when I buy lemonade from kids, I never drink it. I pretend to drink it and then throw it away when I'm out of sight. I don't do this because I think they'll put something harmful in it intentionally. I do this because kids are disgusting and I have no idea how much snot and residual feces made itself into my cup.
 
If it's a kid's lemonade stand then it's crazy to shut it down unless someone complains. As long as the kids are not causing some major traffic problem then I don't see an issue.

'Splain to me how paying $50 for a permit makes lemonade safer. I'll wait.
It doesn't but I still agree with Thunder's overall assessment. HS kids need to get the permit - just because they're older and may as well learn a valuable lessen about doing business. In addition to that, he also said "on public property", which I took to mean a non-residential sidewalk. Someone needs to make sure they're at least thinking ahead with their plan, which is what a permit is supposed to be about (whether it is or not is another story).



In a similar thread I brought up the subject of enforcement, which is the key to laws. All of us break laws almost daily but few even get a ticket. That comes from LEO's doing their job to "serve and protect". It's not just blind enforcement of the law, it's also judgement. LEO's see people breaking the law all the time. I know all of us think we're perfect drivers but the reality is, most of us that drive all the time break at least one traffic law a day. Many LEO's see this and ignore it unless it's creating a danger or there's a reason to establish blame, like in an accident. Some LEOs are inexperienced or they're small town and have something to prove, a few are just bullies and don't belong in some areas of law enforcement. These are the ones we hear about all the time. The others are well-trained and use professional judgement before deciding to say something, give a warning, or issue a ticket.

- If two kids are selling lemonade in their front yard then most police won't do a thing (maybe buy some!) unless they're responding to a complaint.
- If the same two kids are selling lemonade on a 2-lane where people are stopping in the lane to buy then maybe it's time to say something.
- If the same two kids are selling on a 4-lane with a 45 MPH speed limit they should probably shut it down and call the parents.

Keep in mind, without the law that says the stand is illegal they probably couldn't act on the last situation without using some other, most likely harsher, law. Professional judgement, that's what makes it all work.
 
[...] And when I buy lemonade from kids, I never drink it. I pretend to drink it and then throw it away when I'm out of sight. I don't do this because I think they'll put something harmful in it intentionally. I do this because kids are disgusting and I have no idea how much snot and residual feces made itself into my cup.
Chicken! The KIDS drink it - it can't be THAT bad for you! LOL!
 
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...it seems, you thought wrong....

There is nothing more dangerous to the liberties of our citizens than a politician with free time.


.... there seems to be a lot of free time for them....

solitaire-playing-politicians.jpg
 
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Chicken! The KIDS drink it - it can't be THAT bad for you! LOL!

As someone who has worked extensively with foodborne pathogens in the lab, I will have to disagree with you there.
 
You know, I'm forty six years old.... and I think in all my years I've seen exactly ONE children's lemonade stand. You couldn't prove by me that the classical lemonade stand is much more than just a suburban myth left over from pre-1960.
 
If it's a kid's lemonade stand then it's crazy to shut it down unless someone complains. As long as the kids are not causing some major traffic problem then I don't see an issue.

It doesn't but I still agree with Thunder's overall assessment. HS kids need to get the permit - just because they're older and may as well learn a valuable lessen about doing business. In addition to that, he also said "on public property", which I took to mean a non-residential sidewalk. Someone needs to make sure they're at least thinking ahead with their plan, which is what a permit is supposed to be about (whether it is or not is another story).



In a similar thread I brought up the subject of enforcement, which is the key to laws. All of us break laws almost daily but few even get a ticket. That comes from LEO's doing their job to "serve and protect". It's not just blind enforcement of the law, it's also judgement. LEO's see people breaking the law all the time. I know all of us think we're perfect drivers but the reality is, most of us that drive all the time break at least one traffic law a day. Many LEO's see this and ignore it unless it's creating a danger or there's a reason to establish blame, like in an accident. Some LEOs are inexperienced or they're small town and have something to prove, a few are just bullies and don't belong in some areas of law enforcement. These are the ones we hear about all the time. The others are well-trained and use professional judgement before deciding to say something, give a warning, or issue a ticket.

- If two kids are selling lemonade in their front yard then most police won't do a thing (maybe buy some!) unless they're responding to a complaint.
- If the same two kids are selling lemonade on a 2-lane where people are stopping in the lane to buy then maybe it's time to say something.
- If the same two kids are selling on a 4-lane with a 45 MPH speed limit they should probably shut it down and call the parents.

Keep in mind, without the law that says the stand is illegal they probably couldn't act on the last situation without using some other, most likely harsher, law. Professional judgement, that's what makes it all work.



My "rookie year" as a cop, I had an older mentor who was near retirement. The first thing he ever said to me was "The first thing you've got to learn is what NOT to see."

He was right. You can waste your entire day piddling with trivia... and while you're doing that someone the next block over is stealing everything but the kitchen sink while you're preoccupied with jaywalking tickets...
 
You know, I'm forty six years old.... and I think in all my years I've seen exactly ONE children's lemonade stand. You couldn't prove by me that the classical lemonade stand is much more than just a suburban myth left over from pre-1960.
Drove past one in my neighborhood last week. In all of my years? Seen a dozen or so that I can recall. Not counting those I "ran" as a kid of course.
 
Should unapproved lemonade stands be illegal? Or, is this a prime example of bureaucrats and government going beyond their legitimate bounds?



Where the other hand comes in is the health angle. Part of me again wants to say "they're just kids", but I am also old enough to remember what is a more relatively innocent time when the vast majority of kids wouldn't dick with other people by putting something unhealthy in the lemonade they're selling. Just for their own 'fun'. Granted, most kids still wouldn't, but in today's society I think some would.

What say you?

When I ride my bike I see kids along the way with lemonade stands. They are merely whiling the time away and being friendly. I have no problem stopping for a minute and buying some lemonade. The policeman who is parked next to the kids comes out to talk for a few minutes and it is a nice moment in a great ride. A really great snapshot of how simple and pleasant things can be in a very complex society when those legislators are dealing with the real business of government and leaving the common folk alone.
 
As someone who has worked extensively with foodborne pathogens in the lab, I will have to disagree with you there.
If it were meat I'd be a lot more worried. Something containing 5% citric acid in sugar water? Not so much.

I appreciate your input, though. Having recently read The Wild Life Of Our Bodies and followed it's premise most of my life, I just have a different take on the whole issue. I also understand that most people, and especially people in your profession, still live by the code "the only good germ is a dead germ". I'm sure your life is filled with anti-bacterial agents and disinfectants and in your case it's probably justified. For most people I don't think it is. ;)
 
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If it were meat I'd be a lot more worried. Something containing 5% citric acid in sugar water? Not so much.

I appreciate your input, though. Having recently read The Wild Life Of Our Bodies and followed it's premise most of my life, I just have a different take on the whole issue. I also understand that most people, and especially people in your profession, still live by the code "the only good germ is a dead germ". I'm sure your life is filled with anti-bacterial agents and disinfectants and in your case it's probably justified. For most people I don't think it is. ;)

i can think of several paths to transmission of pathogens via improper food handling in this particular case.

the lemonade could be pressed and processed in a kitchen where meat is prepared and surfaces are improperly cleaned. also in most cases, we are talking about children who might not be fastidious about thorough handwashing.

would E. Coli or Salmonella thrive and multiply well in low pH / high sucrose cooled liquid culture? no. however, many organisms would remain viable. i have worked with strains of 0113 and 0157:H7 that have extremely low infectious doses; in some cases, the infectious dose is one organism.

also, norovirus (stomach "flu" / viral gastroenteritis) is efficiently transferred though food preparation by someone who is infected.

do i think cops should go around busting lemonade stands? no. however, i'm very happy that we tightly regulate the food service industry. i responded to this thread to give a little perspective. lemonade stands aren't being targeted for no reason by mean authoritarians who want to ruin a childhood rite of passage. there are legitimate reasons behind an increased awareness and enforcement of food safety issues.
 
Chicken! The KIDS drink it - it can't be THAT bad for you! LOL!
Ha! I'm surprised most kids make into adulthood with all the stuff that goes in their mouths.
 
It's called a deterrent. People are far more likely to take necessary health precautions when they have established that they are legally allowed to do something. This is why you don't find rat tails in your meat.

I don't know. If you think little kids should need to have permits to sell lemonade or other dumb little kids stuff I don't know what to say. It's pretty stupid.
 
Ha! I'm surprised most kids make into adulthood with all the stuff that goes in their mouths.
Some scientists are beginning to believe we need a little more of that "stuff" to stay healthy. ;)

i can think of several paths to transmission of pathogens via improper food handling in this particular case.

[shortened for space]
I know things could happen, the question is, what's the likelihood of it happening?

But I'm glad you chimed on because, as you say, there ARE good reasons for industry control of pathogens and if I gave anyone any other impression I'm sorry. The food industry can have many disastrous affects on people, look at last fall's issue with cantaloupes! It's why we have permits and (hopefully) regular inspections of eating establishments and food handling/packaging facilities. Many people whine about spending money on the FDA and I have to wonder where their brain is.
 
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Some scientists are beginning to believe we need a little more of that "stuff" to stay healthy. ;)
Sure, I'm actually one of the people that agrees with those scientists and I think the fact that my mother didn't put me a bubble when I was kid like a lot of parents do is one of the reasons I don't get sick as often as a lot of other adults. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean I'm interested in drink some kid's snot.
 
Sure, I'm actually one of the people that agrees with those scientists and I think the fact that my mother didn't put me a bubble when I was kid like a lot of parents do is one of the reasons I don't get sick as often as a lot of other adults. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean I'm interested in drink some kid's snot.
Well, I can understand the *yuck* factor many feel. I've got three grandsons and I don't think a week goes by that Mom or Grandma doesn't cringe. LOL!
 
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Leave the kids alone..


Several women in my family would get together annually and set up a garage sale to sell off no longer needed items. It was a good way to make a few dollars and it was also a family social gathering. The women would run the en-devour and the men would supply the muscle. Many years it was the only time I would see some of my extended family and each year we would use the proceeds to fun a family dinner afterward.

To my surprise a few years ago the state made it mandatory to have a permit to have a garage sale. While I understand the reasoning it just struck me as further intrusion of the government into our lives. They now monitor garage sales for crying out loud. We know all those little old ladies are becoming a serious threat to our economy and also withholding trillions in tax revenue! /facepalm
 
To my surprise a few years ago the state made it mandatory to have a permit to have a garage sale.
You'll have to show me the link for that one! We have garage/yard sales every June in our subdivision. They last all weekend and some of our neighbors are LEO's. No one gets a permit of any kind and never has.
 
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Leave the kids alone..

Several women in my family would get together annually and set up a garage sale to sell off no longer needed items. It was a good way to make a few dollars and it was also a family social gathering. The women would run the en-devour and the men would supply the muscle. Many years it was the only time I would see some of my extended family and each year we would use the proceeds to fun a family dinner afterward.

To my surprise a few years ago the state made it mandatory to have a permit to have a garage sale. While I understand the reasoning it just struck me as further intrusion of the government into our lives. They now monitor garage sales for crying out loud. We know all those little old ladies are becoming a serious threat to our economy and also withholding trillions in tax revenue! /facepalm
The place I live now does not do that. The place I used to live does require a permit. They claimed it was to keep track only so that people would do "serial garage saleing" as a way to run an actual business and skirt around the requirements for that. Supposedly, you only aroused attention if you had 4 or more garage sales in a year.
 
The day we start cracking down on little kids running lemonade stands, is the same day I buy a one way ticket to Canada.
 
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