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Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

Is there a War on Women?


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If the term has lost it's edge, it's because it's employed where it's unwarranted. As discourse into gender equality extends beyond the need for it, expect that the term will fade completely, to include any and all expression of mundane triviality. Anything from litigation over 'Mother Christmas' costumes, to workplace disputes about the appropriateness of screen savers.

The war is over (not that there ever was one). There remain only those for whom such a state of affairs remains desirable. And politically profitable.

Thankfully, awareness is finally catching up to the reality.
 
Nope. I still have my armor on, but everyone is too busy talking about Zimmerman to fight with this woman.
I'll fight you, Josie. Not that I really want to, but I could take you a few rounds if you're in the mood.
 
So I have to ask, are there women who are actively engaging in and supporting the "war on women"?
 
So I have to ask, are there women who are actively engaging in and supporting the "war on women"?
Some of us call them feminists.

There must be a war, right? Or what are they doing here?
 
There must be a war, or there can be no 'victims'.
 
Feminists are hard-core pro-life, anti SSM, anti women in the workforce?
Feminists think a woman's place is barefoot in the kitchen and pregnant?
Feminists think a woman should be seen and not heard?
 
Feminists are hard-core pro-life, anti SSM, anti women in the workforce?
Feminists think a woman's place is barefoot in the kitchen and pregnant?
Feminists think a woman should be seen and not heard?
Feminists are pro-victim. Simply that. This is the currency in which they trade. Where no victim is found, one must be invented.

As for the last two, you are aware no one actually thinks that, right? Not men. Not women. No one. See what I mean?

Btw, are you a woman? If you'd prefer to leave that undisclosed, then cool.
 
Feminists are pro-victim. Simply that. This is the currency in which they trade. Where no victim is found, one must be invented.

this is true of all social advocacy groups from femenists to social conservatives.

war on women
war on chistmas
war on the poor
war on the rich
war on gay people
war on traditional marriage
war on fetuses
war on women's rights
the list goes on and on.

in all cases, its just people advocating what they think is right while the other sides sees that same advocacy as a war on them.
 
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this is true of all social advocacy groups from femenists to social conservatives.
Agreed. But where one advocates any issue where victimisation is inherent, it places it on a level beyond feminism, where such victims are fictional constructs only.
 
war on women
war on chistmas
war on the poor
war on the rich
war on gay people
war on traditional marriage
war on fetuses
war on women's rights
the list goes on and on.
Spot the odd one out.

The others actually exist.
 
Spot the odd one out.

The others actually exist.

which one do you consider odd? looking at the theme i see Christmas not being directly about people, but it is an effective proxy againt the mainstream American view of Christian values.

also the term victim is very dependant on perspective. for example, if i am forced to deal with an issue or harm that is someone else's fault, i am either a victim or not depending on how i feel about the situation. if that harm is something i agree with, (having to pay more taxes due to me raiaing my income) i am not a victim because i fundamentally agree with progressive taxation, but someone like turtledude certainly considers himself a victim. there is no objective standard here so we are both correct.
 
which one do you consider odd? looking at the theme i see Christmas not being directly about people, but it is an effective proxy againt the mainstream American view of Christian values.

also the term victim is very dependant on perspective. for example, if i am forced to deal with an issue or harm that is someone else's fault, i am either a victim or not depending on how i feel about the situation. if that harm is something i agree with, (having to pay more taxes due to me raiaing my income) i am not a victim because i fundamentally agree with progressive taxation, but someone like turtledude certainly considers himself a victim. there is no objective standard here so we are both correct.
Good luck telling a feminist that victimhood is subjective. They'll fight you to the very last drop of blood on that one.

My point is that, with the exception of the supposed 'war on women', each of your examples might easily include those for whom victimhood is a stark reality. Therein lies the difference. Such as racism and homophobia loom large even today.

You could ask a feminist how she's a victim. Socially? Legally? Economically? Where precisely is this 'war' waged? And how?

Do feminists honestly believe that men live like kings, whilst women grovel on in abject misery, and brutal oppression? Of course not. They couldn't possibly justify that position. But we're to accept the idea anyway?

Sorry. Denied.
 
Good luck telling a feminist that victimhood is subjective. They'll fight you to the very last drop of blood on that one.

My point is that, with the exception of the supposed 'war on women', each of your examples might easily include those for whom victimhood is a stark reality. Therein lies the difference. Such as racism and homophobia loom large even today.

You could ask a feminist how she's a victim. Socially? Legally? Economically? Where precisely is this 'war' waged? And how?

Do feminists honestly believe that men live like kings, whilst women grovel on in abject misery, and brutal oppression? Of course not. They couldn't possibly justify that position. But we're to accept the idea anyway?

Sorry. Denied.

its pretty obvious that a person who is convinced that they are a victim isn't going to want to hear otherwise.

obvious point is obvious, but it has no bearing on my argument.
 
its pretty obvious that a person who is convinced that they are a victim isn't going to want to hear otherwise.

obvious point is obvious, but it has no bearing on my argument.
To the contrary. I addressed your post directly. If you'd like a different answer, you could always posit a different argument.

Next time you hear a feminist speaking of 'oppression' and 'inequality', simply ask them to give examples pertaining to their own life. Don't leave them to speak in vague and unfounded generalities.

Ask them how the man standing next to them enjoys any more advantage than they do, for no other reason than that he's a man.
 
To the contrary. I addressed your post directly. If you'd like a different answer, you could always posit a different argument.

Next time you hear a feminist speaking of 'oppression' and 'inequality', simply ask them to give examples pertaining to their own life. Don't leave them to speak in vague and unfounded generalities.

Ask them how the man standing next to them enjoys any more advantage than they do, for no other reason than that he's a man.

you never addressed the issue of perception except maybe stating your own perception which is within the theme of my point.
 
you never addressed the issue of perception except maybe stating your own perception which is within the theme of my point.
I addressed it, both in pointing out how we're asked to accept a groundless claim, and in highlighting the difference between assumed victimhood and genuine examples, such as racism and homophobia.

It's not sufficient to say that victimhood is subjective, where demands are made on account of it. Were it generally agreed that such subjectivity was the common denominator, no one could make any demands.
 
I addressed it, both in pointing out how we're asked to accept a groundless claim, and in highlighting the difference between assumed victimhood and genuine examples, such as racism and homophobia.

It's not sufficient to say that victimhood is subjective, where demands are made on account of it. Were it generally agreed that such subjectivity was the common denominator, no one could make any demands.

not sure if i agree completely. cultural assumptions are a valid standard for declaring victimhood as social expectations are usually the norm we measure against. the problem being of course that culture is a bit of a nebulous term, generally, i think it is sufficient. thus what one person thinks is valid, another may not.
 
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not sure if i agree completely. cultural assumptions are a valid standard for declaring victimhood. the problem being of course that culture is a bit of a nebulous term, generally, i think it is sufficient. thus what one person thinks is valid, another may not.
And were it left at that, we'd have no problem. As it is, we have feminism making the claim that such victimhood is anything but subjective.
 
And were it left at that, we'd have no problem. As it is, we have feminism making the claim that such victimhood is anything but subjective.

its pretty much impossible to make that claim. even the idea of natural rights and other views claimed by western society as cultural fundamentals are nothing more than cultural norms and cultural expectations.

now it so happens that enough of society agrees on these norms (to verying degrees) that we can cheat a bit and call it objective because the idea is so often unchallenged we convince ourselves of its truth

what some feminist claims as a harm is a harm to her, most likely (unless she is trying to be manipulative). it is what it is to both her and you.
 
its pretty much impossible to make that claim. even the idea of natural rights and other views claimed by western society as cultural fundamentals are nothing more than cultural norms and cultural expectations.

now it so happens that enough of society agrees on these norms (to verying degrees) that we can cheat a bit and call it objective because the idea is so often unchallenged we convince ourselves of its truth

what some feminist claims as a harm is a harm to her, most likely (unless she is trying to be manipulative). it is what it is to both her and you.
Again, I agree. But these issues don't remain at the theoretical level. They assume a reality and actions, with an impact on society.
 
Again, I agree. But these issues don't remain at the theoretical level. They assume a reality and actions, with an impact on society.

well grom my personal and subjective perspective, i mostly don't care. i have found in life that different women want different things. my mom is a feminist and i was raised to be co partners in terms of a marriage. my wife ended up being more traditional and to the point where she preferred i make all major decisions and she would do as i ask (within reason) and it took me several years to realize this about her. my best female friend (other than my wife) has yet another perspective. all are valid and all require different things of me. the gender laws pretty much work in the same ways from my perspective as well.

even though my expectations are different from one person to another, i chalk it up to differences in personality and not harm to myself are my own personal views.

i regard these feminists in much the same way,.
 
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Again, I agree. But these issues don't remain at the theoretical level. They assume a reality and actions, with an impact on society.
Again, when it is pointed that there are many direct actions taken by conservatives at the state and federal legislatures to remove, weaken, undercut or repeal gains made in women's rights, you can still sit there and say there is no tangible, objective evidence, that it is all subjective?

That is some heavy denial.
 
well grom my personal and subjective perspective, i mostly don't care. i have found in life that different women want different things. my mom is a feminist and i was raised to be co partners in terms of a marriage. my wife ended up being more traditional and to the point where she preferred i make all major decisions and she would do as i ask (within reason) and it took me several years to realize this about her. my best female friend (other than my wife) has yet another perspective. all are valid and all require different things of me. the gender laws pretty much work in the same ways from my perspective as well.

even though my expectations are different from one person to another, i chalk it up to differences in personality and not harm to myself are my own personal views.

i regard these feminists in much the same way,.
That's cool.
 
Again, when it is pointed that there are many direct actions taken by conservatives at the state and federal legislatures to remove, weaken, undercut or repeal gains made in women's rights, you can still sit there and say there is no tangible, objective evidence, that it is all subjective?

That is some heavy denial.
Actually, I'm the guy that's been arguing that such issues aren't subjective?

And what legislation? Aren't the democrats in power?

Do you think men have more rights than women?
 
Does anyone reading this thread believe that women are ruthlessly and brutally oppressed? And that men enjoy a quality of life that far surpasses that experienced by women? Do men have many more opportunities?

Anyone? At all?

I can see you guys reading this ****, so what say you?
 
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