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Is there a "War on Women" in the United States?

Is there a War on Women?


  • Total voters
    118
For those who believe there is a "war on women", how will you determine when the war is over?

What would "victory for women" look like?
 
For those who believe there is a "war on women", how will you determine when the war is over?

What would "victory for women" look like?

Well I clocked in as a 'yes and no' via poll.

'yes' from some people - 'no' from the majority.

I won't see it as an issue at all when we can remove legislation that demands equal pay for the same work (for example) without having to worry about the average woman suddenly getting paid less to do the same thing that her male counterpart may be doing.

Or when we don't have to keep rehashing the necessity of birth control being available - and so on.

Right now - it's hard to tell where we stand because a lot of things are legislated and the threat of finding oneself in legal trouble seems to govern the actions of some is strong incentive to appear one way - while they'd swing another if these measures were lifted.
 
Or when we don't have to keep rehashing the necessity of birth control being available - and so on.

Birth control is FAR from a male vs female issue.

Many women are firmly in the camp of the Catholic dogma regarding birth control.
 
Don't pretend that the entire world can be summarized accurately in numbers - numbers are an attempt to explain and keep track, they don't account for everything. . . and the ycan be misleading when other things that are heavily involved cannot be mapped.

This is not what you said or what I replied about. No one said anything about accounting for everything, including you.

You said "Because some statistics are deceiving: people think that statistics can be a true measure of reality - Aunt Spiker

So again what does a number or statistic have to do with reality insofar as plain old data? I'll tell you again, nothing. No one so far in this thread has said anything at all about any data saying anything at all.

anyone who is a statistician knows this - it's a flaw. Doesn't mean they're not useful or beneficial - but numbers don't always paint the entire picture. You can't pretend that they do.

Who is pretending simple numbers are painting anything at all? Please point this out as you brought it up.
 
Right now - it's hard to tell where we stand because a lot of things are legislated and the threat of finding oneself in legal trouble seems to govern the actions of some is strong incentive to appear one way - while they'd swing another if these measures were lifted.

How much of the need for that legislation is solely because of the actions of a very small minority?

There are many major corporations that are run by women. I mentioned Pepsi and DuPont in an earlier post.

You've also got mega-conglomerate's like the Oprah and Martha Stewart kinds.

Would you deny that the opportunities are there for women to grab?

Would you deny that women now have more power in the workforce than ever before?
 
How much of the need for that legislation is solely because of the actions of a very small minority?

There are many major corporations that are run by women. I mentioned Pepsi and DuPont in an earlier post. You've also got mega-conglomerate's like the Oprah and Martha Stewart kinds. Would you deny that the opportunities are there for women to grab? Would you deny that women now have more power in the workforce than ever before?

Her concern is that the moment those legal barriers go away, the male portion of society will push women right back where they were 100 years ago.
 
Or when we don't have to keep rehashing the necessity of birth control being available - and so on.

Oh for the love of ****ing christ.

Who was honestly arguing that birth control not be available?

Mandating Health Insurance provide coverage for birth control, or mandating that all businesses use health care that supports coverage for birth control, is not in any way shape or form arguing that it shouldn't be available.

Secondly, how the **** is "birth control"....not drugs needed to help with medical issues that happen to also be able to double as birth control...but "BIRTH CONTROL", IE items taken and gotten SPECIFICALLY to prevent pregnancy, a "woman's" issue alone? Does pregnancy have no effect on men in this society what so ever? Are women needing this birth control for masturbatory purposes? Are men somehow disallowed or unable to purchase birth control? I sure as hell know that as a man, if birth control was actually made "not available" (which is a non-existant argument on any legitimate level) it would affect me a hell of a lot. Woman's issue my ass, that's a human issue. It affects more than just women. Thankfully, contrary to the strawmen thrown out by liberals for the past months, there is no significant or legitimate movement to make birth control unvailable.
 
Her concern is that the moment those legal barriers go away, the male portion of society will push women right back where they were 100 years ago.

As there are women out there who support and condone Sharia law, and cultish societies like the FLDS, I can't say such a thing would be impossible, but I'd say the realistic possibility of such a thing happening is next to null.

As a parent of daughters, I'd never suggest they not strive for whatever goals make them happy.
They both played ice-hockey as kids as two of only three girls on the team of all boys, and learned to shoot a gun and a bow and arrow. One wants to become a Physician's Assistant or get into bio-genetics, and the other is leaning towards marine biology.

I would never want to think they're incapable of achieving a specific occupational goal simply because of their gender.
 
Oh for the love of ****ing christ.

Who was honestly arguing that birth control not be available?

Mandating Health Insurance provide coverage for birth control, or mandating that all businesses use health care that supports coverage for birth control, is not in any way shape or form arguing that it shouldn't be available.

Secondly, how the **** is "birth control"....not drugs needed to help with medical issues that happen to also be able to double as birth control...but "BIRTH CONTROL", IE items taken and gotten SPECIFICALLY to prevent pregnancy, a "woman's" issue alone? Does pregnancy have no effect on men in this society what so ever? Are women needing this birth control for masturbatory purposes? Are men somehow disallowed or unable to purchase birth control? I sure as hell know that as a man, if birth control was actually made "not available" (which is a non-existant argument on any legitimate level) it would affect me a hell of a lot. Woman's issue my ass, that's a human issue. It affects more than just women. Thankfully, contrary to the strawmen thrown out by liberals for the past months, there is no significant or legitimate movement to make birth control unvailable.

In general I don't support 'mandating' insurance measures of any sort. . . so that's not what I was referring to. I don't consider whether it's covered by insurance or not to be 'availability' - That's just an insurance quandary. If you want certain things covered by insurance then find an insurance policy that covers those things.
 
In general I don't support 'mandating' insurance measures of any sort. . . so that's not what I was referring to. I don't consider whether it's covered by insurance or not to be 'availability' - That's just an insurance quandary. If you want certain things covered by insurance then find an insurance policy that covers those things.

Then what are you talking about when stating:

Or when we don't have to keep rehashing the necessity of birth control being available - and so on.

What rehashing of the necessity of birth control being available has occured? It would seem you're talking about the recent debate concerning birth control and health care, but if you're not what "rehashing" of that are you talking about?
 
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In 2008 90,000 women reported they were raped. Another 75,000 rapes were unreported. Yes, there's a war against women.

Source: CBS News
Exclusive: Rape in America: Justice Denied - CBS News

As absolutely horrible and attrocious as rape is, the numbers you just gave...adding the unreported to the reported....represent 0.105% of women in the United States. That's essentially 1/10th of 1% of all the women in this country. While a dispicable act that we absolutely should work as a society to bring the number down on, that hardly constitutes a "war on women".
 
In 2008 90,000 women reported they were raped. Another 75,000 rapes were unreported. Yes, there's a war against women.

Source: CBS News
Exclusive: Rape in America: Justice Denied - CBS News

And the hundreds of thousands of crimes men perpetrate against other men would be?

Are you also assuming more men rape than don't rape?
And that those that don't rape condone that specific crime mainly because it's against a woman?

Black on black crime is a huge issue. Is there a "war" on blacks? By blacks?
 
As absolutely horrible and attrocious as rape is, the numbers you just gave...adding the unreported to the reported....represent 0.105% of women in the United States. That's essentially 1/10th of 1% of all the women in this country. While a dispicable act that we absolutely should work as a society to bring the number down on, that hardly constitutes a "war on women".

Those are far higher numbers than those of our soldiers killed in Iraq. Yes, it's a war, and it should be taken seriously.
 
Those are far higher numbers than those of our soldiers killed in Iraq. Yes, it's a war, and it should be taken seriously.

It is not a war. It is crime HUGE difference.

There is no organized group, system or ideology to rape women. The idea it is some kind of war on women is utter nonsense.
 
Those are far higher numbers than those of our soldiers killed in Iraq. Yes, it's a war, and it should be taken seriously.

Please tell us....who is responsible for the war? Who is fighting the women? Who is the leader? Who are the generals?
Who are the soldiers? How are they organized and who issues the orders?

Please describe the warring entity that is attacking the women of America.

Please.
 
Those are far higher numbers than those of our soldiers killed in Iraq. Yes, it's a war, and it should be taken seriously.

War is not defined by number of people killed. If it was, then your rape example wouldn't work and a War on Automobiles, Poisons, or FALLING would be far larger than the War on Terror.
 
Then what are you talking about when stating:



What rehashing of the necessity of birth control being available has occured? It would seem you're talking about the recent debate concerning birth control and health care, but if you're not what "rehashing" of that are you talking about?

Yes: issues of 'we should ban certain forms of contraception becaues of how it prevents pregnancy/gestation/conception" - etc . . . stuff like that. At present: that is not the debate in the political arena or social arena - but it's been around in my lifetime and will likely come around again.

Sorry, I should have been more specific with my statement - I left it vague.
 
Who here is saying sexism doesn't exist?

A number of posters have said that women are socially above men, and men deal with more sexism today than women. I have seen at least four male members post that while there isn't a war on women, there is war on women.

What seems to be suggested is it isn't some epedimic that is systematic across the country that is "warring against" Women to deny them rights.

You experienced Sexism. Wow that sucks. You've ran into some jerks.



As I said before, the most troubling thing about this thread isn't the topic. It's the dismissive tone of the posters towards sexism and reverse sexism, and this says about us in terms of social and gender issues. I have seen a number of posters say men have it the worst, and white men have the worst, and now this... Sexism and being disrespected for something you can't help (gender, disability, race, etc.) does exist and it can be hurtful, and to some people experiencing it, it's very disparaging and humiliating.

I have never made a joke nor made light of the bigotry, racism, discrimination, or sexism anybody else has ever encountered or had to deal with. Again the attitude running through this thread is the most troubling for me. Instead of dismissing the sexism of others, and crying that men have it worse then women, we should realize that every sexist attitude towards a woman has an equally sexist reaction for men.

If women are told their are submissive, emotional, and better at parenting... then men are expected to provide, show no emotion, and always pay child support and never get custody of children in a divorce suit.

Such facts should be common sense. Sexism shouldn't a part of our culture we decide to surrender ourselves to and accept with defeat. Sexism and disrespect towards any gender or person shouldn't be something we tolerate, shrug off, or dismiss.

I dare you to find me anyone that hasn't had bad things happen in their life because of assholes, jerks, or bitches before. Simply because some of their jerkiness to you was because you're a female doesn't make you any more special or a precious snow flake than someone who had people act like a jerk towards them because they're white, or a male, or young, or a geek, or unpopular, or too trusting, or black, or foreign, or gay, or shy, or any other reason.

Did I ever say I am special for any reason at all? Seems like you have pitched a fit over nothing. Obviously you seem offended by me stating that sexism exists, and you admit that it does. Why is it so offensive for me to bring it up and mention it?

Seriously, save for one or two admitted extermists in here, I don't think anyone is saying that sexism just doesn't exist or that there aren't still sexists in the world. But that's SIGNIFICANTLY differnet then suggesting there's some kind of sizable, legitimate, meaningful, "war on women" going on.

FTR, I never said there was a war on women. If you go back and read my statements, you would see that I have said the very opposite. I don't agree with the slogan. It's divisive. It's not going to unite women. Women will think about the term war, and feel they are not undergoing war.
 
No

I'm not in favor of declaring "war" on an abstract concept, be it women, poverty, drugs, etc.
 
A number of posters have said that women are socially above men, and men deal with more sexism today than women. I have seen at least four male members post that while there isn't a war on women, there is war on women.


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As I said before, the most troubling thing about this thread isn't the topic. It's the dismissive tone of the posters towards sexism and reverse sexism, and this says about us in terms of social and gender issues. I have seen a number of posters say men have it the worst, and white men have the worst, and now this... Sexism and being disrespected for something you can't help (gender, disability, race, etc.) does exist and it can be hurtful, and to some people experiencing it, it's very disparaging and humiliating.

I have never made a joke nor made light of the bigotry, racism, discrimination, or sexism anybody else has ever encountered or had to deal with. Again the attitude running through this thread is the most troubling for me. Instead of dismissing the sexism of others, and crying that men have it worse then women, we should realize that every sexist attitude towards a woman has an equally sexist reaction for men.

If women are told their are submissive, emotional, and better at parenting... then men are expected to provide, show no emotion, and always pay child support and never get custody of children in a divorce suit.

Such facts should be common sense. Sexism shouldn't a part of our culture we decide to surrender ourselves to and accept with defeat. Sexism and disrespect towards any gender or person shouldn't be something we tolerate, shrug off, or dismiss.

Did I ever say I am special for any reason at all? Seems like you have pitched a fit over nothing. Obviously you seem offended by me stating that sexism exists, and you admit that it does. Why is it so offensive for me to bring it up and mention it?

FTR, I never said there was a war on women. If you go back and read my statements, you would see that I have said the very opposite. I don't agree with the slogan. It's divisive. It's not going to unite women. Women will think about the term war, and feel they are not undergoing war.

This is an excellent post. I guess if you define war narrowly as in involving organized armies with weaponry, then, no, there's not a war. If you define it as extraordinary hostility and sexism that sometimes manifests itself in violent ways (like rape) against women, then you'd better believe there's a war. I don't think most men realize the hostility that women face -- that's in fact inevitable to face with the way things are now. If you're fat and unattractive, you face one kind of hostility. If you're fortunate enough to be able to make yourself attractive, you get some positive attention, but then you often face a different type of hostility.

And just to be 100 percent fair, there definitely are women who are hateful toward men and those that use men. I've seen it and that stinks. I guess that's not too ridiculous for someone to see that as reverse sexism.
 
Just because there is sexism does not mean that everyone is pushing against us, our rights and our futures.

A war - in this sense - would mean a massive, widespread effort to subjugate, subdue and push under by a large majority or an influential minority (the elite, etc)

If there is any such 'war-like sentiment' it's not on a large scale: it comes in the form of groups, some religions, etc - smaller clusters. Which is why I selected 'yes and no' . . . and sometimes they try to push through measures via legislation, etc. But for the most part are unsuccessful.
 
Just because there is sexism does not mean that everyone is pushing against us, our rights and our futures.

A war - in this sense - would mean a massive, widespread effort to subjugate, subdue and push under by a large majority or an influential minority (the elite, etc)

If there is any such 'war-like sentiment' it's not on a large scale: it comes in the form of groups, some religions, etc - smaller clusters. Which is why I selected 'yes and no' . . . and sometimes they try to push through measures via legislation, etc. But for the most part are unsuccessful.

So, using your words of "massive" and "widespread effort" you would concede that there is no "war on women" in this country.

I agree.

On a much smaller level, you suggest that a fringe element of society might be willing and conspiring to push women back into early 20th century roles?

Which may be true, however the threat of those fringe groups being able to pass laws and change what's become societal norms is far from realistic.

Would you agree with that?
 
So, using your words of "massive" and "widespread effort" you would concede that there is no "war on women" in this country.

I agree.

On a much smaller level, you suggest that a fringe element of society might be willing and conspiring to push women back into early 20th century roles?

Which may be true, however the threat of those fringe groups being able to pass laws and change what's become societal norms is far from realistic.

Would you agree with that?

Yep - that's my point. . . they can try: they can wage their own personal skirmish by refusing to work for a woman, hire a female (etc) or try to pass legislation and other measures that will conduct business how they want to - but in regard to anything that alters how government/society actually functions - no.
 
"War on Women" seems to be the popular buzz phrase lately. Do you believe there is a war against women in this country right now?
I think there has always been a war on women. That's why I'm quick to apologize to my wife, and I always endeavor to put her happiness first.
 
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