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Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

Should military members be able to freely express their opinions on politics?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 57.1%
  • No

    Votes: 10 35.7%
  • More than currently allowed, but not freely

    Votes: 2 7.1%
  • Less than currently allowed

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    28

MarineTpartier

Haters gon' hate
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SAN DIEGO (AP) — Marine Sgt. Gary Stein first started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots to encourage service members to exercise their free speech rights. Then he declared that he wouldn't follow orders from the commander in chief, President Barack Obama.

While Stein softened his statement to say he wouldn't follow "unlawful orders," military observers say he may have gone too far.

The Marine Corps is now looking into whether he violated the military's rules prohibiting political statements by those in uniform and broke its guidelines on what troops can and cannot say on social media. Stein said his views are constitutionally protected.

While troops have always expressed their views in private, Stein's case highlights the potential for their opinions to go global as tech-savvy service members post personal details, videos and pictures that can hurt the military's image at home and abroad..............

The link provides the rest of the story.
Also, the second link describes our rights as service members regarding free speech.
Marine's Facebook page tests military rules - Yahoo! News
Watch what you say: Speech limits under UCMJ - Military Law, Military Law Advice, Ask a Lawyer - Army Times
 
And no, that's not me. I know someone would ask.
 
They're the ones fighting for everyone's freedom. It is freedom of speech. I do not see how one physically fighting and risking their lives could be stripped of their right to freedom of speech.
 
Hard to say. They are essentially government property while they in the military.
 
should they yes,are they allowed to no.before i left active duty being a member of the tea party or joining a tea party rally was considered treason.if your chain of command is mean they could even charge you for saying your gonna vote out obama,why because to the army die hards he is the commander in cheif.most military members dont care but some are anal about anything other than pleasent being said about the president.
 
Hard to say. They are essentially government property while they in the military.

No they are not. They are still people.
 
Sure, as long as their political allegiances and convictions don't interfere with their contractual obligations.
 
SAN DIEGO (AP) — Marine Sgt. Gary Stein first started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots to encourage service members to exercise their free speech rights. Then he declared that he wouldn't follow orders from the commander in chief, President Barack Obama.

While Stein softened his statement to say he wouldn't follow "unlawful orders," military observers say he may have gone too far.

The Marine Corps is now looking into whether he violated the military's rules prohibiting political statements by those in uniform and broke its guidelines on what troops can and cannot say on social media. Stein said his views are constitutionally protected.

While troops have always expressed their views in private, Stein's case highlights the potential for their opinions to go global as tech-savvy service members post personal details, videos and pictures that can hurt the military's image at home and abroad..............

The link provides the rest of the story.
Also, the second link describes our rights as service members regarding free speech.
Marine's Facebook page tests military rules - Yahoo! News
Watch what you say: Speech limits under UCMJ - Military Law, Military Law Advice, Ask a Lawyer - Army Times

Good question! On the facebook page, calling it "Armed Forces..." is probably going to have gone too far. Military personnel can express their own political opinions, but have to be clear that it is personal opinion and not the opinion of the service. Advocating not following orders for any reason in such a setting is also probably going to be inappropriate. In both cases, he really skirts close to the line.
 
For clarification, are you suggesting that the troops question, and even publicly debate command?
 
No they are not. They are still people.

my father still has old photos of navy rations in the 80's.those photos say on the box NOT FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION-MILITARY USE ONLY.

if that doesnt say how our government views soldiers nothing will.
 
I beleive members of the military do unless it places their mission or unit in harm's way.
 
Of course military members should be able to express their political opinions. That's a sacrosanct right in the United States. Expressing an intention to disobey orders while in the military... that's a different matter. He is legally compelled to follow orders, no matter what he thinks of them. I don't know if he will face any kind of court martial for his declaration, but I do know that he will face one if he disobeys an order, regardless of his opinions on it. Ultimately, someone with a lot more training and knowledge about the law than he has will determine if the president issues an unlawful order in his capacity as commander and chief.
 
No they are not. They are still people.

They are still people. They are not civilians, and they are governed by the military code of justice.

Military Personnel Have Free Speech Rights | NewsReal Blog

In the case of Sergeant Stein, he was “counseled” by his military superiors after creating a Facebook page for Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots and after posting online comments critical of President Obama’s healthcare plan. The sergeant’s entrepreneurial publishing efforts caught the attention of his chain of command, and not, apparently, in a good way. Indeed, Sergeant Stein was warned that by exercising his free speech rights, he may be running afoul of Defense Department directives that limit and circumscribe a military member’s political activities.


A more recent military case that reached the Supreme Court, Parker v. Levy,17 has further defined the limits of military free speech. Dr. Levy was convicted for making disloyal and disrespectful comments to enlisted personnel intended to promote disaffection among the troops, in violation of articles 133 and 134, and for failure to obey a lawful order, in violation of article 92.
Although the issue on appeal was the vagueness and overbreadth of articles 133 and 134, the Supreme Court's decision has considerable application to the issue of military free speech rights. The Court said that while members of the armed forces were not excluded from the protection of the first amendment, a different application was required because of the fundamental need for obedience and discipline. Stressing this uniqueness, the Court stated that civilian first amendment standards do not automatically apply to the military.18
Free Speech, the Military, and the National Interest
 
Of course military members should be able to express their political opinions. That's a sacrosanct right in the United States. Expressing an intention to disobey orders while in the military... that's a different matter. He is legally compelled to follow orders, no matter what he thinks of them. I don't know if he will face any kind of court martial for his declaration, but I do know that he will face one if he disobeys an order, regardless of his opinions on it. Ultimately, someone with a lot more training and knowledge about the law than he has will determine if the president issues an unlawful order in his capacity as commander and chief.

That is not entirely true. He is obligated to follow lawful orders. Of course the problem is that unless you have spent significant time studying the laws, knowing for sure what is or is not a lawful order is not a simple thing. Guessing wrong could have devastating effects on your life. Thankfully it is very rarely an issue.
 
They are still people. They are not civilians, and they are governed by the military code of justice.

Military Personnel Have Free Speech Rights | NewsReal Blog





Free Speech, the Military, and the National Interest

Well, now you know why I did not say they where civilians. However, 99.99 % of the time, some one in the military is going to have no reason to even know the few limits that are imposed on them in terms of free speech.

Oh, and not being civilians does not make military personnel government property as you claimed.
 
anyone speaking their mind against the commander in cheif is subject to multiple rules.ill use an example saying you voted against obama is not considered treason,saying you dislike obama is likely not treason,saying you are gonna vote him out though can be seen as dissent.practically anything that does agree with us politics can be charged under article 134a ,article 81 for conspiriacy,article 92,and especially article 88,contempt against the president,vice president etc.


Uniform Code of Military Justice (UJMJ) - Main Menu


when you enlist for the military you literally sign away all your rights,and its not any fine print,they tell you in paper and in person,and ask you like 40 times are you sure you want to go through with it.
 
From a prior military member's blogsite:

You Are Government Property
No, this is not a joke, or clever euphemism. As a member of the US Armed Forces, give your heart to what ever God you believe in, because your ass belongs to Uncle Sam. You will be required to stay in shape, wear your hair according to policy, and obey all standing orders relating to your personal health.
When I was in the Army, I processed more than a few sets of disciplinary papers charging soldiers with "Destruction of Government Property" for getting a tattoo, getting sunburned, or breaking a leg on a ski trip. Basically, if you're screwing around and hurt yourself so bad that it interferes with you being fit for duty, you can expect to catch some manner of hell for it.
Ten Things To Know Before You Join The Military
 
Newbie (to this particular issue) question here.

What is the reasoning to not allow military folks to fully engage in free speech in the first place?
 
Newbie (to this particular issue) question here.

What is the reasoning to not allow military folks to fully engage in free speech in the first place?


the military believes you can freely vote,but showing any dis-interest in any politician can be viewed as rallying the troops against the government they serve.ironically our own oath is in conflict with itself should a civil war break out in this country,but is heavily against any form of rebellion.


as far as the military is concerned you are entitled to your opinion but keep it to yourself.just keep in mind the military is still run by old generals who believe if you dont go to church your a godless communist.actually everything you do is support of communism to them,but luckily these old men are being phased out through retirement and there are very few left,but yet those very few still run the highest positions in the military.
 
megaprogman said:
What is the reasoning to not allow military folks to fully engage in free speech in the first place?

From my recollection, the emphasis is on neutrality. The military is supposed to be an apolitical entity so the higher-ups frown on any political extremism. Obviously this is very subjective which allows for widely differing policies from base to base. Pretty much any political speech is permissible provided that it is not performed in uniform or made to look like the official stance of the military.

In this particular case I would bet the issue is the label "Armed Forces". This is how so many veterans groups get away with "extreme" political speech even in cases of active duty or reserve members.
 
Not really, its a price that one pays for being in the military...

wait so someone has to pay a price to sacrifice their life?kinda seems unfair kinda like having to pay to die or pay someone for the privilage of working 80 hours a week building structures and pulling weeds and getting shot at.

im not gonna lie,the military is a bum deal.thats why i get mad at some people who alienate the military,these guys are doing jobs any civilian wouldn't do unless they were paid 150k a year,and most of the lower enlisted are around poverty level,and every year enlisted hear about a pay cut getting told they are payed too much while civilian contractors are payed 200-300k a year to do half the job they do.every year the pay cut fails usually because some high ranking general goes on a rant about how little we are paid for what we do.

even if you hate the wars they fight and disagree with the rules they follow you should respect and thank them for doing the dirty work most disagree with themselves.trust me war for me was a cakewalk,but some never made it back,and most had a much harder time than me,i just had the luck of the draw.everyday though i nearly died,and everyday i barely squeaked by because someone caught an attack ahead of time or my buddy in the uzbekistan army would tell me 2 weeks ahead of an impending attack.


so in short to say the government doesnt see us as poeple,fine we already knew that.but to say its our price for joining the military,thats flat out an insult.
 
SAN DIEGO (AP) — Marine Sgt. Gary Stein first started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party Patriots to encourage service members to exercise their free speech rights. Then he declared that he wouldn't follow orders from the commander in chief, President Barack Obama.

While Stein softened his statement to say he wouldn't follow "unlawful orders," military observers say he may have gone too far.

The Marine Corps is now looking into whether he violated the military's rules prohibiting political statements by those in uniform and broke its guidelines on what troops can and cannot say on social media. Stein said his views are constitutionally protected.

While troops have always expressed their views in private, Stein's case highlights the potential for their opinions to go global as tech-savvy service members post personal details, videos and pictures that can hurt the military's image at home and abroad..............

The link provides the rest of the story.
Also, the second link describes our rights as service members regarding free speech.
Marine's Facebook page tests military rules - Yahoo! News
Watch what you say: Speech limits under UCMJ - Military Law, Military Law Advice, Ask a Lawyer - Army Times
I think they should be able to express their opinions up to a point and that point is very specific - when expressing their opinions may lead harm. With that limit, however, there is room for interpretation so judgement on what "crosses the line" should be up to military courts and whoever else deals with things like this.

I think the comment in the OP might lead to harm and in turn, crosses the line. Saying that you aren't going to follow orders is irresponsible and that's not unique to the military. Someone working at a private company who writes that they aren't going to listen to their boss is a liability as well.
 
beerftw said:
even if you hate the wars they fight and disagree with the rules they follow you should respect and thank them for doing the dirty work most disagree with themselves.

Not me. I pity those who get suckered into this modern form of slavery and hope they see the light as I did and get out. People must earn my respect.
 
so in short to say the government doesnt see us as poeple,fine we already knew that.but to say its our price for joining the military,thats flat out an insult.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think he was saying that in an insulting manner. I took his comment to be that the miltary doesn't view their personnel as people, and not that they aren't actually people.
 
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