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Do MEN have a Right to CONTROL Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

Do Men Have the Right to Control Women's Health Issues and Reproductive Systems?

  • Total voters
    41
DiAnna said:
Well, I'm glad that my prescription insurance company doesn't agree with you.
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If insurance companies were not forced to cover these things en mass and the government didn't restrict pricing, your insurance would either, not cover that or you'd be paying a much higher premium.

This is just proof in the pudding that most folks don't understand what insurance is.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Not really. In a state of nature, keeping life expectancy short is crucial to keeping the planet inhabitable and helping to sustain cycles that allow everything else to live.


And parasites are supposed to kill you. Are you going to let them?
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Not all. I thought you were referring to "beneficial" as in, say, the bacteria in your digestive system. But I guess you're referring to harmful parasites and attackers and saying the "benefit" is in population control.

But parasites or attackers trying to kill you aren't a natural part of the functioning of your own body. Your reproductive system is. What it does when it's working properly isn't an "attack" on you.


Biological function is not more "correct" than preference. It's just the default. The default is not inherently better or worse than anything else. There's no reason why just because it's the "default" means it's "good." The two have nothing to do with each other.
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I didn't say it was "good" or "better" or "worse" or anything like that. I only say that it's biological, scientific fact. What you choose to add on to it comes from something other than science.


By the way, birth is also something that kept life expectancy short. It was (and in many places still is) the leading killer of women.
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I have no reason to deny this; it's pretty much beside the point.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
It is the purpose of health insurance. It may not be the purpose of fire insurance but it is the sole purpose of health insurance.
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Insurance, in any scenario is supposed to be a hedge against loss, most often, catastrophic loss for the insured.
Health insurance used to operate off this scenario too, instead of contracting with hospitals, doctors, etc.

They used to pay out a cash lump sum, to cover the loss.
 
Harshaw said:
Not all. I thought you were referring to "beneficial" as in, say, the bacteria in your digestive system. But I guess you're referring to harmful parasites and attackers and saying the "benefit" is in population control.

But parasites or attackers trying to kill you aren't a natural part of the functioning of your own body. Your reproductive system is. What it does when it's working properly isn't an "attack" on you.
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It is natural for your body to do all kinds of things that we consider negative, preferencially. Vomiting is usually something your body does in self-defense. It's a perfectly natural and good and properly-functioning response. Doesn't change that you can still vomit yourself to death, and that we prefer to avoid it by getting flu shots, for example.

It's also natural for your body to go into menopause, but the problem with this is that in a state of nature, for many women, it means your days are very numbered. So for these women, we treat them, because they can have another 30 or 40 years of life if we do so. Menopause is perfectly natural, and there's a very good reason why it can deterorate your health. You won't produce healthy offspring at that age. The same happens to men, we're learning.

Our bodies do all kinds of things that can hurt us, but are there for very good reasons. Things we may not wish to happen. So we stop them. Same with pregnancy. We have been aborting pregnancies since the very eariliest civilizations. Abortion is, in fact, part of our natural behavior. There are even other species who abort in their own way.

Furthermore, why isn't it an attack? Who cares if it is natural and part of your own body?

Any time your body or mind becomes endangered by something against your will, that can be qualified as an attack. Unwanted pregnancy is most certainly an attack, both physically and mentally.
 
Removable Mind said:
And you point is? Do you think underwriters are stupid? We get the benefit of hedging loss. The insurance companies the the benefit of controlling you life and make a ton of money doing it.
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Nope, they are required by law to cover many things, that are not typically insurable events, so they price it into the premium.
That's why insurance is so expensive.

I disagree, that BC and Abortions (aside from treating catastrophic loss) should be covered under insurance plans.
I'm forced to pay for "women health issues and reproductive systems" through this and I should have a say.
 
Removable Mind said:
So...if you have diabetes...too bad for you, huh? If health insurance worked as you opine...most people would be in financial ruin.
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with something so prevalent as insulin, i would wager unit prices on it would be dramatically lowered if an open market was where you'd find it.... but there is no open market for it today, the consumer is completely disconnected from the supplier.

insurance companies are the only market forces that are present in the medical world.. you and me don't matter... market value doesn't matter.
it's even worse for services ( xrays, cat scans, etc)... those are completely arbitrary values.. and all of them are unjustifiably expensive
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
It is natural for your body to do all kinds of things that we consider negative, preferencially. Vomiting is usually something your body does in self-defense. It's a perfectly natural and good and properly-functioning response. Doesn't change that you can still vomit yourself to death, and that we prefer to avoid it by getting flu shots, for example.

It's also natural for your body to go into menopause, but the problem with this is that in a state of nature, for many women, it means your days are very numbered. So for these women, we treat them, because they can have another 30 or 40 years of life if we do so. Menopause is perfectly natural, and there's a very good reason why it can deterorate your health. You won't produce healthy offspring at that age. The same happens to men, we're learning.

Our bodies do all kinds of things that can hurt us, but are there for very good reasons. Things we may not wish to happen. So we stop them. Same with pregnancy. We have been aborting pregnancies since the very eariliest civilizations. Abortion is, in fact, part of our natural behavior. There are even other species who abort in their own way.

Furthermore, why isn't it an attack? Who cares if it is natural and part of your own body?

Any time your body or mind becomes endangered by something against your will, that can be qualified as an attack. Unwanted pregnancy is most certainly an attack, both physically and mentally.
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Explaining the birds and bees is an exercise in futility.

We first learned this past week at the conservatives hearings on birth control that they aren't so clear on how birth control actually works.

Now I'm learning that they think your personal insurance premiums are precisely equal to what your insurance company pays out in your name.
 
Yeah, insulin would be relatively cheap. There's certainly enough of a market for it.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
If insurance companies were not forced to cover these things en mass and the government didn't restrict pricing, your insurance would either, not cover that or you'd be paying a much higher premium.

This is just proof in the pudding that most folks don't understand what insurance is.
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Insurance is twofold and there are some as you say for catastrophic events. There are others as health insurance that help pay the bills. Health care is the most important thing in a nation. The more sick days the more down time at work. The less production. That is why many of the good nations have universal health care coverage. They insure for preventative care rather than the US where prevention is less covered than needs of the moment.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Nope, they are required by law to cover many things, that are not typically insurable events, so they price it into the premium.
That's why insurance is so expensive.

I disagree, that BC and Abortions (aside from treating catastrophic loss) should be covered under insurance plans.
I'm forced to pay for "women health issues and reproductive systems" through this and I should have a say.
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Harry, disagree until the sun falls out of the sky. You need to inform all Heath insurance companies that they are ****ing up big time.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Nope, they are required by law to cover many things, that are not typically insurable events, so they price it into the premium.
That's why insurance is so expensive.

I disagree, that BC and Abortions (aside from treating catastrophic loss) should be covered under insurance plans.
I'm forced to pay for "women health issues and reproductive systems" through this and I should have a say.
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No, you aren't. You haven't paid a dime for my insurance. I have. I've paid it for decades, when it was just money going into the pockets of the insurance company, and nothing coming back out... because I had no prescription medications, I had no serious health issues, nor did the rest of my family. Now I do have serious health issues, and insurance covers them... insurance is paying for my health issues with the premiums I paid for decades, and they're going to get a profit out of me no matter how long I live.

Despite your insistance that your money is being used, it's not. You're simply trying a left-field rationalization about why women's health issues are your business, when they most assuredly are not.
 
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katiegrrl0 said:
Insurance is twofold and there are some as you say for catastrophic events. There are others as health insurance that help pay the bills. Health care is the most important thing in a nation. The more sick days the more down time at work. The less production. That is why many of the good nations have universal health care coverage. They insure for preventative care rather than the US where prevention is less covered than needs of the moment.
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The health care we receive is actually a 1st world problem, it's not as important, then what people make it out to be.
The overwhelming vast majority of people, would get a long just fine, if medical insurance were as I described.

With the savings on that, we could finance a better government disability system.

Preventative medicine is actually a negative in terms of medical costs, long term.
The longer someone lives, to more money they will cost, especially if they make it to their elder years.
Where medical costs are the most for the average person.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
It is natural for your body to do all kinds of things that we consider negative, preferencially. Vomiting is usually something your body does in self-defense. It's a perfectly natural and good and properly-functioning response. Doesn't change that you can still vomit yourself to death, and that we prefer to avoid it by getting flu shots, for example.

It's also natural for your body to go into menopause, but the problem with this is that in a state of nature, for many women, it means your days are very numbered. So for these women, we treat them, because they can have another 30 or 40 years of life if we do so. Menopause is perfectly natural, and there's a very good reason why it can deterorate your health. You won't produce healthy offspring at that age. The same happens to men, we're learning.

Our bodies do all kinds of things that can hurt us, but are there for very good reasons. Things we may not wish to happen. So we stop them. Same with pregnancy. We have been aborting pregnancies since the very eariliest civilizations. Abortion is, in fact, part of our natural behavior. There are even other species who abort in their own way.

Furthermore, why isn't it an attack? Who cares if it is natural and part of your own body?

Any time your body or mind becomes endangered by something against your will, that can be qualified as an attack. Unwanted pregnancy is most certainly an attack, both physically and mentally.
Click to expand...

Vomiting is also a proper function of your body, and it's beneficial to you. It may not be pleasant -- neither is a fever -- but it's your body doing what it's supposed to do.

If you want to consider pregnancy an "attack," then consider it an attack. It's simply not a scientific view, though; it's no more an "attack" than your hair growing or your blood pumping. It's an organ doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

And it's not even a value judgment shared by many. It's definitely not an objective view.
 
DiAnna said:
No, you aren't. You haven't paid a dime for my insurance. I have. I've paid it for decades, when it was just money going into the pockets of the insurance company, and nothing coming back out... because I had no prescription medications, I had no serious health issues, nor did the rest of my family. Now I do have serious health issues, and insurance covers them... insurance is paying for my health issues with the premiums I paid. Despite your insistance that your money is being used, it's not. You're simply trying a left-field rationalization about why women's health issues are your business, when they most assuredly are not.
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You agreed to pay premiums for coverage for those specific years, knowing that you wouldn't get anything, unless something bad happened.
So you actually got something, it just wasn't physical in nature.

I'm rationalizing that, If I have to pay premiums on coverage for issues related to vagina's and females breasts, when I have neither, I'm certainly subsidizing those who do have them.
My insurance is required to have coverage for these things, when neither me, nor my kids have female body parts.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
The health care we receive is actually a 1st world problem, it's not as important, then what people make it out to be.


Preventative medicine is actually a negative in terms of medical costs, long term.
The longer someone lives, to more money they will cost, especially if they make it to their elder years.
Where medical costs are the most for the average person.
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Harry, please you are embarrassing yourself....
 
digsbe said:
None of the poll questions reflect what I believe because they are biased.

Men have a right to vote just like women do. Men have absolutely every right to have their votes, beliefs, and opinions enacted and listened to in regards to the abortion issue.
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Do you think then, Digs, if the subject were put on the next ballot that the nation would vote to support abortion and contraception paid for by employer, you'd be willing to accept and live by the results of such a vote?
 
Harshaw said:
Vomiting is also a proper function of your body, and it's beneficial to you. It may not be pleasant -- neither is a fever -- but it's your body doing what it's supposed to do.

If you want to consider pregnancy an "attack," then consider it an attack. It's simply not a scientific view, though; it's no more an "attack" than your hair growing or your blood pumping. It's an organ doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

And it's not even a value judgment shared by many. It's definitely not an objective view.
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Your hair growing or your blood pumping does not hurt you in any way. Pregnancy ALWAYS hurts the woman. Every time. It frequently kills them outright.

Attack is not a biological term, therefore it has no scientific meaning. The meaning of "attack" is an aggressive action against a person or place. Unwanted pregnancy qualifies.

Furthermore, it is not wholy the woman's body doing what it does. It is a process that can't begin without an outside force (sperm) acting inside her body, with or without her consent. If it is without, then not only is an attack, but it's an attack coming from an outside source.

If a pregnancy is wanted, then despite whatever damage it may do, it is not an action "against" anything, therefore it is not an attack. Attacks are inherently unwanted.

It is a term the meaning of which hinges entirely on the opinion of the person it is happening to. How the person feels about it determines whether it is an attack. I don't make that decision for any woman; they make it for themselves. And plenty of women with unwanted pregnancies might describe it as an attack. Do some looking around for abortion stories, and you will see them use such language.
 
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Harry Guerrilla said:
Insurance companies are required, by law, to cover these things.
Informing them, would be preaching to the choir.
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The risk hedging business is almost as old as our favorite profession.

Harry, do you think for a second insurance companies rates would remain high if your loving government didn't protect their monopoly like practices?
 
DiAnna said:
No, you aren't. You haven't paid a dime for my insurance. I have. I've paid it for decades, when it was just money going into the pockets of the insurance company, and nothing coming back out... because I had no prescription medications, I had no serious health issues, nor did the rest of my family. Now I do have serious health issues, and insurance covers them... insurance is paying for my health issues with the premiums I paid. Despite your insistance that your money is being used, it's not. You're simply trying a left-field rationalization about why women's health issues are your business, when they most assuredly are not.
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if he is in your insurance pool, he is most assuredly paying for your medical expenses.
that money you paid in decades ago went to someones else... it wasn't put in an account for you for later in life.
you were, however, guaranteed a certain amount of coverage.
that coverage, today, is being paid by the premiums other people pay in your pool.

i'm not getting why women feel that they are so special that they are the only humans on the planet who should be afforded to be left alone to mind their medical business.... what's up with the overt gender bias?
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Nope, they are required by law to cover many things, that are not typically insurable events, so they price it into the premium.
That's why insurance is so expensive.

I disagree, that BC and Abortions (aside from treating catastrophic loss) should be covered under insurance plans.
I'm forced to pay for "women health issues and reproductive systems" through this and I should have a say.
Click to expand...
Women are forced to pay for male health care as well. It works both ways.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Your hair growing or your blood pumping does not hurt you in any way. Pregnancy ALWAYS hurts the woman. Every time. It frequently kills them outright.

Attack is not a biological term, therefore it has no scientific meaning. The meaning of "attack" is an aggressive action against a person or place. Unwanted pregnancy qualifies.

Furthermore, it is not wholy the woman's body doing what it does. It is a process that can't begin without an outside force (sperm) acting inside her body, with or without her consent. If it is without, then not only is an attack, but it's an attack coming from an outside source.

If a pregnancy is wanted, then despite whatever damage it may do, it is not an action "against" anything, therefore it is not an attack. Attacks are inherently unwanted.

It is a term the meaning of which hinges entirely on the opinion of the person it is happening to. How the person feels about it determines whether it is an attack. I don't make that decision for any woman; they make it for themselves. And plenty of women with unwanted pregnancies might describe it as an attack. Do some looking around for abortion stories, and you will see them use such language.
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Yes, it's opinion, not science. This is what I've said for the last 3-4 posts.
 
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