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Right to die

Right to die

  • People have no right to die under any circumstance

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Only terminally ill people have the right to die

    Votes: 4 7.5%

  • People have the right to die, but healthcare professionals should not aid in the process

    Votes: 10 18.9%

  • People have the right to die, and healthcare professionals should be allowed to assist suicide

    Votes: 36 67.9%

  • Suicide attempts should not be a criminal offense

    Votes: 23 43.4%

  • Suicide attempts should be illegal

    Votes: 2 3.8%

  • other

    Votes: 8 15.1%
  • Total voters
    53
I believe everyone has the right to die. I believe physicians should be legally allowed to assist suicidal patients, if the situation does not conflict with their own personal convictions. No one has the right to tell me I cannot die with dignity at a time and by the method of my choosing. And yet the "law" does just that.

That said, I do not believe that society should encourage suicide per se. Suicidal people should be offered aid and assistance in coping with the reasons they no longer want to live. More would do this, I believe, if being "suicidal" wasn't frowned upon in society to the point where it's actually illegal. As long as someone who confesses to being suicidal can be immediately locked up as being a danger to themselves, people who really need help in coping will be too frightened to ask for it. The result will be more suicides by people who could have been saved.

The word "selfish" ticks me off as well. I'm being "selfish" because the desperation of gasping for every breath drives me to avoid being bedridden, without dignity. Why is it me who is being selfish? Why isn't it the friends and loved ones who can see the pain I'm in and know that every day I live that pain will only get worse who are the selfish ones? We don't treat our dying elders with the same care and reverence we show our dying pets. That sucks.
 
MaggieD said:
I actually think there is more "euthanasia" going on than one would suspect. Stop and think about it. If one is terminally ill and wants to end one's life, all one has to do is ask to be heavily medicated for pain to the point of stupor...instruct people around them not to give them any water...then will go into cardiac arrest in three days. It's not as pleasant as it could be, but it works.

Those people who are paralyzed and don't wish to continue living can refuse medical treatment for things like pneumonia and other life-threatening illnesses...and so instruct their healthcare powers of attorney.

Those stroke victims who cannot feed themselves can refuse food and will die in three weeks.
It can be done, it's just a shame it can't be done more easily.
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All that falls under passive euthanasia or passive suicide. Most terminally ill cancer patients who die in hospital die because the morphine levels are so high that it challenges their respiratory system. However, others who opt for passive starvation could end up getting a doctor who is a stiffler for intervention and will order a feeding tube inserted. Without laws that ensure the right to die, you are at the whim of the medical people who look after you.

Also, power of attorney only works in some medical cases. It doesn't ensure the right to die if you're already physically healthy but no longer wish to live; it doesn't ensure the right to die if aren't terminally ill (in other words, it can't force doctors to neglect you while in your care so that you do die), etc.

Palliative care, IMO, is immoral when it involves patients who don't want to suffer to the bitter end. Our health care system is way too Christian.
 
Temporal said:
All that falls under passive euthanasia or passive suicide. Most terminally ill cancer patients who die in hospital die because the morphine levels are so high that it challenges their respiratory system. However, others who opt for passive starvation could end up getting a doctor who is a stiffler for intervention and will order a feeding tube inserted. Without laws that ensure the right to die, you are at the whim of the medical people who look after you.

Also, power of attorney only works in some medical cases. It doesn't ensure the right to die if you're already physically healthy but no longer wish to live; it doesn't ensure the right to die if aren't terminally ill (in other words, it can't force doctors to neglect you while in your care so that you do die), etc.

Palliative care, IMO, is immoral when it involves patients who don't want to suffer to the bitter end. Our health care system is way too Christian.
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I think you and I are on the same page. I do not believe a hospital can insert a feeding tube against a patient's wishes. And with a HCPOA, your stand-in is you; so I think they would be in a position to say no.

My point is that people have more power than they realize to plan their exit. No, most of us won't shoot ourselves in the head, but one can refuse transport to a hospital from home for pneumonia (example I used) if one has their loved one's support.

We need euthanasia to be legal. I completely agree. Judging by the votes on this poll, my question is: "Why isn't it already?"

Edit: We can also ask for enough pain relief to zonk us out so that we're neither hungry nor thirsty...
 
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Wake said:
So because I don't stone homosexuals [assuming that's even in the NT], I shouldn't have any Biblical stance on suicide?
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No, I suppose it's possible my comments are confusing in some way....so I will attempt to simplify it as much as i can:

You stated your belief on this topic is based on what the Bible says...Correct?

I stated that there are other things in the Bible you likely DO NOT base your beliefs on...Correct?

The implication here, was that you might need to use another source as the inspiration for your beliefs in this...as your reasoning is inconsistent.
 
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Thank you for this post that I am reading through the blur of tears.

My oldest cat Chutney Occam Walligford has lymphoma. She is just fur and bones. She is still eating and jumping up to her favorite spots but I know that her time is in days now. She isn't quite ready to leave yet but she will tell me when the time comes and I will honor her request.

I don't support suicide unless you are dying anyway. I think it's horrible that your last few days, weeks or months should be filled with pain and that anyone who helps you will be charged with a crime. However, you shouldn't be supported because of a bad hair day. It's usually obvious when quality of life drops below a certain level.


Enola said:
I killed my dog. that was the hardest thing Ive ever done. My other dog, his buddy, died. And when he died, so do the one still living. he lost all will to live. For months, he barely ate. He wouldnt play any more. He was grieving, just as I was. But then he got cancer. The vet said it would slowly strangle him but as long as he was eating and drinking, I was to let him continue on. Wrong. I had anice chat with him one night. We wer laying on the floor....cuddling. And I whispered in his ear to tell me when he was ready. Did he want to be drugged up? no. Could he not stick around for ME, because losing both would kill my heart. Which was selfish. And he answered int he only way he could. He stared in my eyes. One day soon after that conversation, he couldnt get up without me helping him. And he looked at me. He drank. He ate a little bit. And continued to stare at me. And he shadowed me whenever he could get up on his own.The next morning, it was like I could hear him in my head. It was time. Let him go. He didnt want tobe here any more. He didnt want to strangle.He didnt want to have more pain. Why wait until he felt it so badly? Why? for ME? That, was selfish on my part. So I said ok. Today. And i called the vet who came to myhouse. I told him (my dog), he was going to go now. That his friend was waitng for him and I would be ok. To not be scared. And he as sent over rainbow bridge in my arms. Just as the needle was inserted, he looked at me again and laid his head down, sighed and laid still. As the plunger plunnged, I said "go. Hes waiting. wait for me, too. Ill be along shortly" and his eyes ticked up at me in gratitude. and he was gone. I cried for months. Hubby cried for months. And the day he was gone, the dragonflies came. Thousadns of them. He was letting me know he was fine. I did the right thing, before he suffered further.

If only a human would do that for me.
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Other

It strongly depends on the circumstances, but nobody automatically has the right to die.
 
JustinS said:
Other

It strongly depends on the circumstances, but nobody automatically has the right to die.
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Why?

Surely they have more of a right to die than someone else has to force them to live.
 
I cannot see how anyone has more legal authority to control a person's life or body than that person. Moreso than a right to die, a person has a right to control their own life and their own body. That right is not subject to anyone's oversight until it comes into conflict with the rights of another. And no one has the right to force a person to continue living against their will.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Why?

Surely they have more of a right to die than someone else has to force them to live.
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Mainly because people may attempt suicide irrationally out of psychological disorders.
 
I don't believe that suicide is/should be a criminally punishable offense, but I don't like the idea of assisted suicide in mainstream medicinal practices.
 
JustinS said:
Mainly because people may attempt suicide irrationally out of psychological disorders.
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So this justifies denying people the right to agency in most cases?

Even if they are mentally ill, the decision isn't always irrational. Some of them are basically living with an excruciating, untreatable disease.

People have this really weird idea that most suicidal people just wake up one day and decide to kill themselves. That is so far from the truth you can't even see it on the horizon.
 
If you want to go, don't be a coward and do it yourself.
 
Making attempted suicide has no benefits unless it is suicide by cop or something destructive. It will not be a deterrent. If someone attempts suicide they should be admitted to a mental hospital.
 
digsbe said:
Do people have the right to die and take their own lives? Should healthcare professionals be allowed to aid patients in taking their lives in a painless and more dignified manner? Should we criminalize suicide or remove criminal status?

What are you opinions on suicide/self-deliverance/right to die?
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People have the right to die, and healthcare professionals should be allowed to assist suicide.

Because sometimes life isn't worth living, and when that happens we should let them go if that's what they want.
 
cthomp said:
Making attempted suicide has no benefits unless it is suicide by cop or something destructive. It will not be a deterrent. If someone attempts suicide they should be admitted to a mental hospital.
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Wrong.

If someone has a mental illness they should be admitted to a mental hospital. And get medication for it that they can afford. And have their treatment done by a universal health care system.
 
samsmart said:
People have the right to die, and healthcare professionals should be allowed to assist suicide.

Because sometimes life isn't worth living, and when that happens we should let them go if that's what they want.
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Nobody can stop anyone from doing just that.
 
Enola said:
I killed my dog. that was the hardest thing Ive ever done. My other dog, his buddy, died. And when he died, so do the one still living. he lost all will to live. For months, he barely ate. He wouldnt play any more. He was grieving, just as I was. But then he got cancer. The vet said it would slowly strangle him but as long as he was eating and drinking, I was to let him continue on. Wrong. I had anice chat with him one night. We wer laying on the floor....cuddling. And I whispered in his ear to tell me when he was ready. Did he want to be drugged up? no. Could he not stick around for ME, because losing both would kill my heart. Which was selfish. And he answered int he only way he could. He stared in my eyes. One day soon after that conversation, he couldnt get up without me helping him. And he looked at me. He drank. He ate a little bit. And continued to stare at me. And he shadowed me whenever he could get up on his own.The next morning, it was like I could hear him in my head. It was time. Let him go. He didnt want tobe here any more. He didnt want to strangle.He didnt want to have more pain. Why wait until he felt it so badly? Why? for ME? That, was selfish on my part. So I said ok. Today. And i called the vet who came to myhouse. I told him (my dog), he was going to go now. That his friend was waitng for him and I would be ok. To not be scared. And he as sent over rainbow bridge in my arms. Just as the needle was inserted, he looked at me again and laid his head down, sighed and laid still. As the plunger plunnged, I said "go. Hes waiting. wait for me, too. Ill be along shortly" and his eyes ticked up at me in gratitude. and he was gone. I cried for months. Hubby cried for months. And the day he was gone, the dragonflies came. Thousadns of them. He was letting me know he was fine. I did the right thing, before he suffered further.

If only a human would do that for me.
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i'm so sorry for your loss. my parents experienced the same loss recently. you did the right thing.

today i got to go with them to get a new kitten. i hope that it helps them to heal from the loss, and i hope that your healing is underway as well.
 
samsmart said:
Wrong.

If someone has a mental illness they should be admitted to a mental hospital. And get medication for it that they can afford. And have their treatment done by a universal health care system.
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Mental illnesses aren't always something obviously seen. Someone I considered a father figure recently committed suicide. He showed absolutely no signs of mental illness. He was the funniest, most happy man I ever met. All of a sudden he committed suicide. No note, no signs. He was texting a friend up until he did it. Joking and being himself. One of my dad's good friends from work did the same thing. Out of nowhere with no signs just committed suicide.
 
cthomp said:
Mental illnesses aren't always something obviously seen. Someone I considered a father figure recently committed suicide. He showed absolutely no signs of mental illness. He was the funniest, most happy man I ever met. All of a sudden he committed suicide. No note, no signs. He was texting a friend up until he did it. Joking and being himself. One of my dad's good friends from work did the same thing. Out of nowhere with no signs just committed suicide.
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I'm sorry for your loss.

That's why I think we should have a universal health care system for mental wellness. Because those illnesses don't give a **** how much money you earn, and by its very nature isn't something you can just will away. Mental illness can affect anyone, which is why anyone should be able to get the care they need to treat it.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
So this justifies denying people the right to agency in most cases?

Even if they are mentally ill, the decision isn't always irrational. Some of them are basically living with an excruciating, untreatable disease.

People have this really weird idea that most suicidal people just wake up one day and decide to kill themselves. That is so far from the truth you can't even see it on the horizon.
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I never said people shouldn't be denied the right to agency. I just think that they should be evaluated and possibly rehabilitated before such a drastic decision is made.
 
samsmart said:
I'm sorry for your loss.

That's why I think we should have a universal health care system for mental wellness. Because those illnesses don't give a **** how much money you earn, and by its very nature isn't something you can just will away. Mental illness can affect anyone, which is why anyone should be able to get the care they need to treat it.
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Its ok. However I disagree with the universal health care system but that is another debate belonging in another forum.
 
Wake said:
Well, the thing with brain-dead people is that they cannot really make a decision to die, at that moment. It's usually up to the family/spouse, etc. I forgot the clinical term, but I believe there are orders a person can give that contains the person't orders should said person be put in a coma. Perhaps you have a point on that issue. If I am against assisted-suicide, it seems I would also have to be against the death of those in comas.
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So, it looks like you're faced with a conundrum. You can either remain ideologically consistent, or you can pick and choose.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
We've talked about this before, Kali. If someone is mentally ill, that precludes them from making a rational decision on whether they should live or die. If they are NOT mentally ill, I would have no problem with assisted suicide.



Discrimination? Discriminating against the mentally ill for not allowing them to harm themselves? I doubt that the courts will do much with THAT.
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Don't I strike you as someone who can make good choices? I can and noticed that you did not address that there are varying levels of mental illness? In a case of someone like me? Yes. I could see it going to court. You simply cannot do this to people.
 
Henrin said:
Why does the decision need to be rational? Does an action need to be rational for it be taken? Does a action need to be understood by the people that practice it? I'm really sorry, but I don't see any difference here. I know you are into this whole thing, but rational or irrational behavior doesn't change the nature of the behavior. It is still the same behavior and it still falls under the right to control your body. When talking about wisdom of such a decision perhaps, but that is not really the same thing.



The mentally ill have all the rights of anyone else. Just because they are unstable does not change it. It only changes how you view it, but that alone is not a factor. I understand your want to help them, but that doesn't matter.
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I want to marry you:)
 
Kandahar said:
Because mental illness inherently robs someone of the sound judgment necessary to make such a decision. As far as "what gives others the right to judge", it's the same thing that gives us the right to judge that kids can't smoke cigarettes: Kids who smoke cigarettes, like mentally ill people who want to kill themselves, generally aren't capable of making a rational decision and should therefore be protected from hurting themselves.
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This is the dumbest strawman ever!
 
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