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Death Penalty

Should there be a death penalty?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 47.0%
  • No

    Votes: 45 38.5%
  • Under certain circumstances, please explain

    Votes: 17 14.5%

  • Total voters
    117
there is nothing contradictory about being against the death penalty but supporting abortion rights.
You have to admit that having no objection to the taking of a life of the most innocent while objecting vociferously to the taking of the life of a cold blooded scumbag does represent a contradiction in no uncertain terms. I would have far more respect for someone if they were consistent in their value of life - no abortion/no death penalty (period).
 
That doesn't change the fact that an abortion is "taking a life" which she seems to support while denouncing it when it comes to the death penalty. I'm not arguing (here) that abortion is right or wrong, I'm asking her to explain her statement.

There's no contradiction. One deals with personal, reproductive decisions while the other concerns bureaucratic officials arbitrarily deciding who lives and who dies.
 
There's no contradiction. One deals with personal, reproductive decisions while the other concerns bureaucratic officials arbitrarily deciding who lives and who dies.

Yes, there is a contradiction. Both deal with taking a life. The reasons behind the decision to take a life are immaterial to the statement "Taking a life is wrong."
 
Yes, there is a contradiction. Both deal with taking a life. The reasons behind the decision to take a life are immaterial to the statement "Taking a life is wrong."

i have conceded that the self defense issue muddied the waters but I think my argument still stands.

The last rime I will repeat this stuff: This is the same warning I gave to a poster last night:Seeing as you keep skirting around abortion and "life" and you are not well versed on the controversies surrounding the DP, I am guessing you came into this thread looking to catch someone in a slip up in their logic regarding killing so you can make some twisted attempt at convincing someone that abortion is murder. As I have stated: This is a thread about the DP. I am a strong believer in choice. I am also on the fence regarding the "beginning" of life. If you want to debate abortion, go to that thread. If you want to try to persuade me to your way of thinking regarding the "beginning" of life, come up with some argument as to why I should talk to you about it, PM me and then I will join you in a discussion. Get that through your head. I will not debate pro-life / pro-choice issues in a DP thread, they are independent issues with widely different consequences.


This is the last I will even respond to you in this thread unless you have valid arguments and stick to the issue at hand.

Anyone who wants to discuss, capital punishment, how it is applied unfairly, the costs associated with the (not just money), the message it sends about us as country, deterrence, retribution, closure, public executions, ethics for medical professionals involved etc... Please join me once again in this discussion,.
 
Yes, there is a contradiction. Both deal with taking a life. The reasons behind the decision to take a life are immaterial to the statement "Taking a life is wrong."

I never presumed that taking a life is wrong. Instead, I would argue the collective state making arbitrary decisions regarding life or death is wrong.
 
i have conceded that the self defense issue muddied the waters but I think my argument still stands.

The last rime I will repeat this stuff: This is the same warning I gave to a poster last night:Seeing as you keep skirting around abortion and "life" and you are not well versed on the controversies surrounding the DP, I am guessing you came into this thread looking to catch someone in a slip up in their logic regarding killing so you can make some twisted attempt at convincing someone that abortion is murder. As I have stated: This is a thread about the DP. I am a strong believer in choice. I am also on the fence regarding the "beginning" of life. If you want to debate abortion, go to that thread. If you want to try to persuade me to your way of thinking regarding the "beginning" of life, come up with some argument as to why I should talk to you about it, PM me and then I will join you in a discussion. Get that through your head. I will not debate pro-life / pro-choice issues in a DP thread, they are independent issues with widely different consequences.


This is the last I will even respond to you in this thread unless you have valid arguments and stick to the issue at hand.

Anyone who wants to discuss, capital punishment, how it is applied unfairly, the costs associated with the (not just money), the message it sends about us as country, deterrence, retribution, closure, public executions, ethics for medical professionals involved etc... Please join me once again in this discussion,.

I'm fairly well versed in the controversy surrounding the death penalty, and I oppose it. What I am asking you is do you stand by the statement "Taking a life is wrong"? I am discussing capitol punishment. This isn't about yours or my opinion on the morality of abortion. Why are you dodging that question?
 
I never presumed that taking a life is wrong. Instead, I would argue the collective state making arbitrary decisions regarding life or death is wrong.

Ok, then understand that I was asking a person who made the statement "Taking a life is wrong" to clarify it.
 
Ok, then understand that I was asking a person who made the statement "Taking a life is wrong" to clarify it.

I realize and understand that. It still doesn't deviate from the concept of self-ownership.
 
Cases where murderers are proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt should deserve the death penalty. However there are also many cases where innocent people are put to death. Building on that it'd be a horrible scenario for you if you were convicted of crimes you didn't commit. I don't think it's an either/or issue, but a blend. Assuming the convicted are truly innocent, they deserve their punishment.

So it's "under certain circumstances," imo.
 
I realize and understand that. It still doesn't deviate from the concept of self-ownership.

Does the state taking a life deviate from the concept of self-ownership?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Topic is the death penalty, not abortion.
 
Does the state taking a life deviate from the concept of self-ownership?

Yes, and it is wrong.

With that said, I don't believe in anarchy. Even though convicts have certain rights, society does have reasonable discretion to take certain liberties away.
 
I'm fairly well versed in the controversy surrounding the death penalty, and I oppose it. What I am asking you is do you stand by the statement "Taking a life is wrong"? I am discussing capitol punishment. This isn't about yours or my opinion on the morality of abortion. Why are you dodging that question?

My answer, and I see you have already added my humble admission that self-defense trumps my argument to your signature to show everyone I may have contradicted my self (dude I admit it and I am working on wrapping my head around it) Is yes Killing is wrong, the taking of a life, murder is wrong. As unfortunate as it is in self defense situations you need to decide if its your life or theirs. It is not your fault, I don't believe the guilt lies with the person engaging is self defense as they were forced to by another. Just as the state is executing people on "behalf of the people", I am part of that group and I do not want anyone killed on my behalf.

Taking a life a wrong because that deprives someone /thing of life. ( I will not even kill spiders etc.... I have someone else do it because it makes me sad). It does not matter who takes the life, it is wrong.
 
"Taking a life a wrong because that deprives someone /thing of life. ( I will not even kill spiders etc.... I have someone else do it because it makes me sad). It does not matter who takes the life, it is wrong." - Taxigirl

Yet many wars have been fought for good reasons, like the War for Independence. Imo murder is wrong, as well as unjustified killing. When it comes down defending one's life, liberty, and family it doesn't translate as wrong. To be honest there are many people who are not bothered by killing spiders, or attackers, or invaders, etc.
 
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"Taking a life a wrong because that deprives someone /thing of life. ( I will not even kill spiders etc.... I have someone else do it because it makes me sad). It does not matter who takes the life, it is wrong." —Taxigirl

Yet many wars have been fought for good reasons, like the War for Independence. Imo murder is wrong, as well as unjustified killing. When it comes down defending one's life, liberty, and family it doesn't translate as wrong. To be honest there are many people who are not bothered by killing spiders, or attackers, or invaders, etc.

I am anti-war as well. Humans need to step up, raise the level of public discourse and work things out somehow. Now, that is going to bombard me with another topic, so I you are so inclined please make thread about anti-war issues and drag me in there.

There are plenty of wars that have been fought for all the wrong reasons.

Back to the DP... what do you think about DP? how it is applied, the appeals issues, is it a deterrent. retribution, punishment, right or wrong?????
 
"I am anti-war as well. Humans need to step up, raise the level of public discourse and work things out somehow. Now, that is going to bombard me with another topic, so I you are so inclined please make thread about anti-war issues and drag me in there." - Taxigirl

Well, peace isn't always easy to come by. Sometimes war is the only option, as it seemed to be in the fight against the British for independence.

"There are plenty of wars that have been fought for all the wrong reasons." - Taxigirl

I think you're right about that.

"Back to the DP... what do you think about DP? how it is applied, the appeals issues, is it a deterrent. retribution, punishment, right or wrong?????" - Taxigirl

It seems like an attempt to mete out proper punishment to those who have left humanity for being murderous animals. Is the DP always accurate? No, it's not. That's the scary part. I would imagine if some pro-DP member were to be wrongly convicted of crimes punishable by death that he or she would have a changed view.

As for application I think it's cheaper to use a firing squad. Is that necessarily better? Not sure. It'd be a lot cheaper. As for appeals I don't have much knowledge on that. I would imagine it'd be a deterrent, just as being guillotined would be a deterrent to would-be traitors in France. Retribution? Eh, justice is retribution, in a popular and official way. If people are wrongly put to death, then those responsible for the faulty punishment should be held accountable.
 
My answer, and I see you have already added my humble admission that self-defense trumps my argument to your signature to show everyone I may have contradicted my self (dude I admit it and I am working on wrapping my head around it) Is yes Killing is wrong, the taking of a life, murder is wrong. As unfortunate as it is in self defense situations you need to decide if its your life or theirs. It is not your fault, I don't believe the guilt lies with the person engaging is self defense as they were forced to by another. Just as the state is executing people on "behalf of the people", I am part of that group and I do not want anyone killed on my behalf.

That's not why I put that there, but rather "taking a life is wrong." I agree...and I agree that self defense is the only situation where taking a life can be justified.

Taking a life a wrong because that deprives someone /thing of life. ( I will not even kill spiders etc.... I have someone else do it because it makes me sad). It does not matter who takes the life, it is wrong.

Thank you for answering the question. I agree, taking a life is wrong in any case other than self defense...even then, it should be avoided if possible.
 
I get that, my question is: is taking a life wrong?

Did you miss my post #413?

here's an excerpt: Taking a life a wrong because that deprives someone /thing of life. ( I will not even kill spiders etc.... I have someone else do it because it makes me sad). It does not matter who takes the life, it is wrong.

Sorry, looks like we were posting at the same time.
 
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Yes, and it is wrong.

With that said, I don't believe in anarchy. Even though convicts have certain rights, society does have reasonable discretion to take certain liberties away.

I agree, up to and not including taking a life.
 
Did you miss my post #413?

here's an excerpt: Taking a life a wrong because that deprives someone /thing of life. ( I will not even kill spiders etc.... I have someone else do it because it makes me sad). It does not matter who takes the life, it is wrong.

Yeah, I saw it and answered it. I was replying to Red.
 
I guess our timing just sucks today.

So you do not support the death penalty?

Nope, I oppose it completely. Not just because "taking a life is wrong" but for several others.

1. Taking a life is wrong.
2. The death penalty is ineffective at deterring the crimes that warrant it.
3. It costs more than LWOP.
4. There is often a chance that the prisoner is innocent, making all of us murderers.
5. It reduces us all to a state of being equivalent to that of the prisoner that is being killed, presuming s/he is actually guilty of the crime.
 
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Do you ever argue outside of here about it with friends or other people or try to educated people on it?

Often. In my line of work my co-workers tend to be conservatives at a far higher ratio than liberals. Most endorse the death penalty and I discuss it regularly with them. Some I've turned.
 
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