• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Guns

What do you think gun control should be like?

  • Let everyone have a gun

    Votes: 19 22.4%

  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    Votes: 25 29.4%

  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    Votes: 11 12.9%

  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    Votes: 17 20.0%

  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    Votes: 5 5.9%

  • No guns at all

    Votes: 8 9.4%
  • Total voters
    85
Status
Not open for further replies.
MoSurveyor said:
That is an issue and I do have to wonder why anyone would want to buy 10 guns at once - any kind of gun, doesn't matter. What the hell are you going to with 10 at once? (Honest question here.)

That was in this thread??

No, I don't care if you buy 2-3 a month even - but 10 at once?
Click to expand...

ever heard of a ATF multiple purchase report form?
 
MoSurveyor said:
That is an issue and I do have to wonder why anyone would want to buy 10 guns at once - any kind of gun, doesn't matter. What the hell are you going to with 10 at once? (Honest question here.)

That was in this thread??

No, I don't care if you buy 2-3 a month even - but 10 at once?
Click to expand...

Could simply be a 4H shooting club buying guns for the kids to shoot.
 
MoSurveyor said:
I saw our answer the first three times. I'm trying to figure out a reasonable explanation for it.
Click to expand...

When clinton's gun ban was announced but before it was implemented many people bought hundreds of magazines. I bought 8 NORINCO AK rifles because I knew the law was going to pass so I had my dealer order 8 of them at 175 a piece. I sat on them for a year and then gave them back to the dealer on commission He sold each one for 1200 dollars after the ban and he took a 15% commission. I bought a K-80 trap gun with what I made.

the fact is-if you buy more than ONE handgun from the same dealer in less than 5 business days the ATF gets a report of those purchases. And if they are constantly getting reports and guns you buy are quickly ending up in criminal possession, you are going to get investigated and probably indicted for being a dealer without a license
 
lizzie said:
Could simply be a 4H shooting club buying guns for the kids to shoot.
Click to expand...

true, I live inside a city though on a farm. I bought 8 high quality german air rifles so when my son has friends over, the friends and their parents can join us on our air rifle range. If I lived outside the city limits I would have bought 22 rifles for the same reason since they are actually cheaper and require less maintenance
 
TurtleDude said:
and when that dealer gets investigated as all do, he will go to jail if he isn't

so tell me why I should only be able to buy one gun a month
Click to expand...

so, if criminals aren't getting their guns from licensed gun-dealers, then from where and whom are they getting their guns?
 
TurtleDude said:
I am God to you on this subject. But there are many of us. Most of the other guys on the US Shooting team or NSSA All-America team were as knowledgeable. Of course few of them had law degrees and even fewer had represented major gun dealers, and manufacturers as well as law enforcement agencies
Click to expand...

Where do you get this stuff? I said that I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU when you claim papal infallibility on the subject of the Second Amendment. And you have proven it yourself with the nonsense about the pure good aspect that others admit is simply NOT TRUE.

Your technical skill or even knowledge is irrelevant when
1) you claim that you are infallible on anything to do with the Second Amendment, and
2) that the Second Amendment is a pure good with no negatives at all .

You destroyed your own credibility on this Turtle.

Tell you what - I am off to bed - so you take the entire evening to find where I advocated taking away any rights from gun owners. Find that. Post that.

And after you do that explain to me how that makes me anti Second Amendment.

I look forward to actually seeing some evidence from you..... for once.
 
Goshin said:
You might as well ask "if there were no armies in the world, NOT ONE, how many wars would we have?"


This is dreamland and does not, will not, can not ever exist.

There's no point in talking about it. We might as well talk about winged Unicorns and defying gravity by putting mint leaves on your shoes.
Click to expand...

Goshin
the other day you admitted that I was correct in stating that the Second Amendment is not a pure good. That was the simple point in this exercise. Go back and read the exchange. Captain America sees it clearly.
 
Thunder said:
so, if criminals aren't getting their guns from licensed gun-dealers, then from where and whom are they getting their guns?
Click to expand...

do you have any clue how long guns last

or how many are lost or stolen from federal and state arsenals, police departments etc

or how many are on the world market that are smuggled in by the same people who use private submarines or tunnels to bring in loads of cocaine
 
TurtleDude said:
and its idiotic to even bring it up in the context of his claim that the second amendment is what killed those children given places-like mexico-have no constitutional rights to own weapons yet the place is awash with illegal guns and gun deaths
Click to expand...

False. Why are you lying about my beliefs? Must you create a frankenstien monster of my views so you can them burn it as a perversion?

Be a decent chap and the next time you tell people what I believe or advocate, man up and quote me on it.
 
haymarket said:
Goshin
the other day you admitted that I was correct in stating that the Second Amendment is not a pure good. That was the simple point in this exercise. Go back and read the exchange. Captain America sees it clearly.
Click to expand...

its moronic to say a right is not good or partially good

the best you can say is that some people abuse a right for no good

and we also know that even if there was no right to keep and bear arms, we'd still have tons of guns around which is true in many other countries
 
haymarket said:
False. Why are you lying about my beliefs? Must you create a frankenstien monster of my views so you can them burn it as a perversion?

Be a decent chap and the next time you tell people what I believe or advocate, man up and quote me on it.
Click to expand...



Since your thread got flushed I cannot bring back the posts from it here. But the fact remains-claiming that those children are the heroes of the second amendment was a patent attempt to try to smear the second amendment by implying that this right's existence causes innocent people to die
 
TurtleDude said:
do you have any clue how long guns last

or how many are lost or stolen from federal and state arsenals, police departments etc

or how many are on the world market that are smuggled in by the same people who use private submarines or tunnels to bring in loads of cocaine
Click to expand...

where/how do criminals in the USA, get their guns?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/11/u...ort-all-too-easily.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
 
Last edited:
Thunder said:
where/how do criminals in the USA, get their guns?
Click to expand...

Maybe you were on a temporary ban when I posted the DOJ study but it showed where the thousands of criminals interviewed got their guns

less than one percent were from gun shows BTW

none of the main reasons are deterred by gun limits

btw did you ever answer my question as to why I shouldn't be able to buy more than one gun a month
 
TurtleDude said:
its moronic to say a right is not good or partially good

the best you can say is that some people abuse a right for no good

and we also know that even if there was no right to keep and bear arms, we'd still have tons of guns around which is true in many other countries
Click to expand...

Again you preach a falsehood.

The question not is if rights are good or a particular right is good. I asked you days - VERY SPEFICALLY WITH THE EXAMPLE FROM SCHINDLERS LIST - I asked if if the Second Amendment was a PURE GOOD. Something from which no bad or negative could come. You stated that it was a PURE GOOD.

That is a ludicrous and fantasy position. And it shows just how extreme you are on this issue that will not even accept that there is good and bad with the Second Amendment.

Ask yourself this: if there was no bad at all from guns - why do we have laws against their use in certain ways?

Ask yourself this: if there was no bad at all from guns - is the suicide of a heart broken teen who just blew their brains out a good thing? Does that make part of your PURE GOOD?
 
Thunder said:
yeah, and where do you think "that guy" gets the guns to sell?

he drives to places like North Carolina, buys 10 handguns, drives up north, and sells them on the street.
Click to expand...
You have no idea what you are talking about. None.
 
TurtleDude said:
...none of the main reasons are deterred by gun limits

btw did you ever answer my question as to why I shouldn't be able to buy more than one gun a month
Click to expand...

criminals get their guns, through straw purchases and crooked gun-dealers.

so, now that we know this, how do we stop these staw purchases and crooked dealers?
 
TurtleDude said:
Since your thread got flushed I cannot bring back the posts from it here. But the fact remains-claiming that those children are the heroes of the second amendment was a patent attempt to try to smear the second amendment by implying that this right's existence causes innocent people to die
Click to expand...

I never advocated taking away one right anyone has. Go and open this type of thread in the appropriate area and find my views then and post them. I dare you to do it if you think you are able.

Honoring the dead smears nobody.

Or is what you fear that bringing out all sides of the gun issue something that will harm your own extreme position? It seems that is it.
 
Thunder said:
yes, but much less than the USA, as its much more difficult for criminals to get a gun.

let's be honest: if all guns were illegal in the USA...gun crime would go waaaaaaay down.
Click to expand...

That is certainly false to a degree that only you seem able to achieve.

If it was illegal to own a gun in this county, then many, many Americans who are now law-abiding would be forced to become criminals, for refusing to give up this vital right. Technically, this would result in a massive increase in the crime rate. And a massive increase in violence as government thugs try to take the "illegal" guns from their rightful owners.
 
Thunder said:
"damn kettle, you're lookin' pretty black."....says pot.

;)
Click to expand...
I see you did a pretty good job of staying silent when I provided legitimate sources instead of an open source and VERY flawed Wikipedia article. You have been owned on these arguments continuously, just admit it already.
 
haymarket said:
Again you preach a falsehood.

The question not is if rights are good or a particular right is good. I asked you days - VERY SPEFICALLY WITH THE EXAMPLE FROM SCHINDLERS LIST - I asked if if the Second Amendment was a PURE GOOD. Something from which no bad or negative could come. You stated that it was a PURE GOOD.

That is a ludicrous and fantasy position. And it shows just how extreme you are on this issue that will not even accept that there is good and bad with the Second Amendment.

Ask yourself this: if there was no bad at all from guns - why do we have laws against their use in certain ways?

Ask yourself this: if there was no bad at all from guns - is the suicide of a heart broken teen who just blew their brains out a good thing? Does that make part of your PURE GOOD?
Click to expand...

you again engage in dishonesty. You are confusing a right with an object.

USE Of an OBJECT can be for good or evil. You appear to confuse rights with objects

what is idiotic is your pretense of being pro second amendment. No one believes that on this thread.


and your idiotic "Heroes of the second amendment" was a new low of dishonesty
 
Thunder said:
criminals get their guns, through straw purchases and crooked gun-dealers.

so, now that we know this, how do we stop these staw purchases and crooked dealers?
Click to expand...

prosecute them under the law when they are convicted
 
Thunder said:
where/how do criminals in the USA, get their guns?

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS
Click to expand...
Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. [...] According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun.
Click to expand...
The thing about this is, if I decided I wanted a pistol I'd have to get someone to go with me to the gun shop to pick it out and get the right gear to maintain it. Wouldn't be the case for a shotgun or rifle but I'm just plain ignorant when it comes to handguns. If that's breaking the law then I guess I'd be screwed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom