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Guns

What do you think gun control should be like?

  • Let everyone have a gun

    Votes: 19 22.4%

  • Quick background check to purchase and carry

    Votes: 25 29.4%

  • Quick background check to purchase, but more difficult to carry

    Votes: 11 12.9%

  • Background check, waiting period for purchase and carrying.

    Votes: 17 20.0%

  • Background check, waiting period, no carrying

    Votes: 5 5.9%

  • No guns at all

    Votes: 8 9.4%
  • Total voters
    85
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Boo Radley said:
:thumbs: Great way to frame any debate!!! Not.
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TurtleDude said:
when dealing with those antis whose main motivation is a snarky or sanctimonious attitude towards "benighted" gun owners, a777Pilot's framing the issue the way he did is perfect
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Hey, Hey, OVER HERE!!!!! TD, as you know I am pro-gun. I would however like to know Who you suppose is going to want you dead in the first place?
 
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OhIsee.Then said:
So this woman with the gun has it in her hand all the time? Or is it in a holster on her hip. Or is it in her purse. So, if it's in her hand it can be pointed at me but she is legally toast. OK in her hand and and I walk by, oops that gun is mine; and, unless it was cocked it wouldn't have fired. On her hip, that gun is mine. In her purse, that gun is mine. And I can fense that gun to my pawn shop. Shall I continue?
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you aren't making a rational point. An armed victim is less likely to be hurt or slain than an unarmed one. If you are afraid to carry a gun don't-but don't start pretending you are wise enough to tell others what to do
 
taxigirl said:
Hey, Hey, OVER HERE!!!!! TD, as you know I am pro-gun. I would however like to know Who you suppose is going to want you dead in the first place?
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that has no relevance-the people who tried to mug me had no intent to single me out personally, I was just a target of opportunity.
 
TurtleDude said:
that has no relevance-the people who tried to mug me had no intent to single me out personally, I was just a target of opportunity.
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You said
TurtleDude said:
the point is, if you have a gun you have a much better chance than if you don't
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that implies someone has a better chance against something. What is that something? How many people -- I guess what percentage-- are robbed/mugged etc... (a violent crime), not just in populated areas, but the US as a whole? Why do we need to be so worried all the time?
 
taxigirl said:
You said that implies someone has a better chance against something. What is that something? How many people -- I guess what percentage-- are robbed/mugged etc... (a violent crime), not just in populated areas, but the US as a whole? Why do we need to be so worried all the time?
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that really makes no sense to me. I couldn't care less what the percentages are. You are better off being armed than not armed if there is even a remote chance of being targeted for violent criminal assault for any reason.
 
taxigirl said:
You said that implies someone has a better chance against something. What is that something? How many people -- I guess what percentage-- are robbed/mugged etc... (a violent crime), not just in populated areas, but the US as a whole? Why do we need to be so worried all the time?
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It is more of a case of being prepared rather than being paranoid. What is wrong with being prepared?
 
TurtleDude said:
you aren't making a rational point. An armed victim is less likely to be hurt or slain than an unarmed one. If you are afraid to carry a gun don't-but don't start pretending you are wise enough to tell others what to do
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So you're telling me that if I'm afraid don't carry a gun, thanks wise expert. What is not rational? So I'm incorrect about the woman with the gun. Please explain.
 
OhIsee.Then said:
So you're telling me that if I'm afraid don't carry a gun, thanks wise expert. What is not rational? So I'm incorrect about the woman with the gun. Please explain.
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this thread gets cluttered up with posts of those who try to play games with not addressing issues directly.

what exactly is the point you are trying to make or that you want to make with oblique references?
 
TurtleDude said:
when dealing with those antis whose main motivation is a snarky or sanctimonious attitude towards "benighted" gun owners, a777Pilot's framing the issue the way he did is perfect
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NOT!!!!!


But fighting strawmen, or straw stereotypes is the best some can do, I suppose.

:coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
NOT!!!!!


But fighting strawmen, or straw stereotypes is the best some can do, I suppose.

:coffeepap
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your posts are exactly what I am speaking about.
 
The truth is that if more people have guns then criminals don't know who has one and who doesn't. This will stop some criminals and some not. Criminals themselves have said that it is harder robbing someone that they don't know because there is a chance they will have a gun. It doesn't matter if there is a law saying there is no concealed carry because criminals don't follow the laws anyway.
 
TurtleDude said:
your posts are exactly what I am speaking about.
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If so, your prove my point. You're clearly battling strawmen as to tackle the point would prove too hard.

:coffeepap
 
cthomp said:
The truth is that if more people have guns then criminals don't know who has one and who doesn't. This will stop some criminals and some not. Criminals themselves have said that it is harder robbing someone that they don't know because there is a chance they will have a gun. It doesn't matter if there is a law saying there is no concealed carry because criminals don't follow the laws anyway.
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I think the problem with that logic is to think this would prevent criminals. They would simply arm themselves better, escalation, and plan more, or shoot before you have a chance to react. When the numbers change, so does the approach.
 
Boo Radley said:
If so, your prove my point. You're clearly battling strawmen as to tackle the point would prove too hard.

:coffeepap
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why don't you tell us your views on

1) the propriety of carry permits

2) "assault weapon bans"

3) limitations on how many firearms a non-prohibited person can buy a month

etc

I will see if you can actually honestly address the gun issues people discuss


and get back to you tonight
 
Boo Radley said:
I think the problem with that logic is to think this would prevent criminals. They would simply arm themselves better, escalation, and plan more, or shoot before you have a chance to react. When the numbers change, so does the approach.
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well given that has not happened in shall issue states more than in restricted or non-issue states you are incorrect on this
 
Turtle

I thought you were dead set against the term "assault weapons"?
 
TurtleDude said:
why don't you tell us your views on

1) the propriety of carry permits

2) "assault weapon bans"

3) limitations on how many firearms a non-prohibited person can buy a month

etc

I will see if you can actually honestly address the gun issues people discuss


and get back to you tonight
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The answer to none of those, even if they are what you expect, won't make me equal to your strawman. Sorry.

1) I don't mind people carrying who are qualified and skilled. Nor do I oject to them being banned from schools or hospitals or court houses. These seem like reasonable restrictions to me.

2) I have no objection to an assault weapons ban.

3) haven't thought about this one much, but not sure what the reasoning would be for stock piling. Just seems odd to me more than anything I finger to object to.
 
cthomp said:
It is more of a case of being prepared rather than being paranoid. What is wrong with being prepared?
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And I would be better off being prepared for an invasion of purple knee biting midgets.

What about a gas attack? What about flood (I live on the second floor) What about my car exploding? What if?

Yes, we should be able to have guns without restraint, yes we should be able to form militias if we want, but we should not be walking around in fear and being suspect of everyone. Assuming the worst will bring the worst. Next time you walk down the street say Hi to a stranger instead of assessing their potential threat level because of the bulge / no bulge in their holster area.
 
taxigirl said:
And I would be better off being prepared for an invasion of purple knee biting midgets.

What about a gas attack? What about flood (I live on the second floor) What about my car exploding? What if?

Yes, we should be able to have guns without restraint, yes we should be able to form militias if we want, but we should not be walking around in fear and being suspect of everyone. Assuming the worst will bring the worst. Next time you walk down the street say Hi to a stranger instead of assessing their potential threat level because of the bulge / no bulge in their holster area.
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I never walk down the street looking at people thinking "this person might attack me." Again it is being prepared for the unexpected. If no one is allowed to carry guns than only criminals will carry guns. Criminals would be aware of this and attacking another person is easier for them. They can target anyone. Your coming off more paranoid in the sense that you are worried about more law abiding citizens carrying guns.
 
taxigirl said:
And I would be better off being prepared for an invasion of purple knee biting midgets.

What about a gas attack? What about flood (I live on the second floor) What about my car exploding? What if?

Yes, we should be able to have guns without restraint, yes we should be able to form militias if we want, but we should not be walking around in fear and being suspect of everyone. Assuming the worst will bring the worst. Next time you walk down the street say Hi to a stranger instead of assessing their potential threat level because of the bulge / no bulge in their holster area.
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I have had to pull my weapon before on what were otherwise perfectly normal days. Fortunately the holstered weapon in most cases was enough to end the situations. The common factor was that there was absolutely nothing else wrong with those days except; I had someone try to force himself into traffic and when he couldn't was going to attack me, I had one kid with a glare on his face and eyes glued to me showing he was thinking of doing something stupid, and then there was a night when a former friend of mine was working at a bar, she was being harassed by two idiots who thought that if they were obnoxious enough and waited for her to get off work they were gonna get some, I know they were going to do something stupid because the main idiot had his driver's side door open and was staring at her, when I put the holstered gun on the dashboard and lit up the dome lights they decided to finally act like human beings.
 
LaMidRighter said:
I have had to pull my weapon before on what were otherwise perfectly normal days. Fortunately the holstered weapon in most cases was enough to end the situations. The common factor was that there was absolutely nothing else wrong with those days except; I had someone try to force himself into traffic and when he couldn't was going to attack me, I had one kid with a glare on his face and eyes glued to me showing he was thinking of doing something stupid, and then there was a night when a former friend of mine was working at a bar, she was being harassed by two idiots who thought that if they were obnoxious enough and waited for her to get off work they were gonna get some, I know they were going to do something stupid because the main idiot had his driver's side door open and was staring at her, when I put the holstered gun on the dashboard and lit up the dome lights they decided to finally act like human beings.
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I have no doubt this is your perception. But perceptions can and often are incorrect.
 
Boo Radley said:
I see nothing here to change what I said. Stossel has a real history of skewing things. I've had a lot of fun with his reports in class. ;)
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If there is a store that has a history of allowing their workers to carry guns and across the street there is a store that doesn't allow their workers to carry guns which one will the criminal attempt to rob?
 
cthomp said:
If there is a store that has a history of allowing their workers to carry guns and across the street there is a store that doesn't allow their workers to carry guns which one will the criminal attempt to rob?
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Sure. But this means an uneven situation. But if both stores, all stores in the area have weapons. Crime doesn't go away. Instead, the crime automatically becomes more violent. Shot first.
 
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