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Would Jesus be a Liberal?

Which of these political leans would Jesus be?

  • Liberal

    Votes: 40 44.0%

  • Conservative

    Votes: 12 13.2%

  • Moderate

    Votes: 7 7.7%

  • Potato

    Votes: 32 35.2%
  • Total voters
    91
Panache said:
You didn't look very hard then. Verse 33, fifth word.
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:doh Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you? how in the world do you place that in context and claim that Jesus is advocating government redistribution of wealth?

Much like the protaganist in 1984 was?
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no. for Real. In a realer sense than frankly is within our imagination.

A.k.a. The Godhead, a.k.a. The corporate personhood of the State.
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no. the Trinity. No Law and No Government.

When you take your identity from the Kingdom of God, that is nationalism. In what way is it not?
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what is the ethnicity of the Kingdom of God? what are it's geographic boundaries?

You claim that there is abundance in heaven. Whatever there is in abundance must be produced somehow.
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given that production is a temporal process, no, not really.

Nor do you. I suppose we shall just have to continue debating in ignorance.
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actually I know a bit about Christianity, and a bit about Fascism. You seem to have decided to make a provocative statement and then suddenly found yourself defending a patently foolish position.
 
cpwill said:
:doh Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you? how in the world do you place that in context and claim that Jesus is advocating government redistribution of wealth?
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How do you not? Redistribution of wealth in the Kingdom of God is exactly what is being promised. That the humble will be exalted etc...


no. for Real. In a realer sense than frankly is within our imagination.
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My point is that clockwork orange style reformation of character is not antithetical to the notion of fascism.

no. the Trinity. No Law and No Government.
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The trinity is the government in the kingdom of God. Otherwise it wouldn't be the Kingdom of God, it would be the anarchy of reborn people.

what is the ethnicity of the Kingdom of God? what are it's geographic boundaries?
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. Neither of those are prerequisite to nationalism.

given that production is a temporal process, no, not really.
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Yes really. Divine fiat is still production. Do you you propose that abundance will exist with no authorship at all? That creations in heaven will have no Creator?

actually I know a bit about Christianity, and a bit about Fascism. You seem to have decided to make a provocative statement and then suddenly found yourself defending a patently foolish position.
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I am sure your self professed authority on the subject is very impressive to alot of people. I have no need to assert any credentials in the matter. My arguments will stand on their own merits.
 
Panache said:
Yep, keep reading. Jesus goes on to say:

*

The one man and one woman business isn't given to everyone. If it were, how would that command pertain to hermaphrodites? Are they not allowed to get married? Allowed to marry both at the same time? Jesus was not defining marriage, He was addressing the question of divorce between heterosexual couples.
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That verse is not speaking of homosexuls. You're twisting scripture to mean something it doesn't say.

Yes, the question he was asked was about divorce. You have to be married to get divorced. Logic and common sense. Very simple.
 
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Neal N. Bloeme said:
That verse is not speaking of homosexuls. You're twisting scripture to mean something it doesn't say.

Yes, the question he was asked was about divorce. You have to be married to get divorced. Logic and common sense. Very simple.
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So gay couples that are married shouldn't get divorced.
 
Panache said:
So gay couples that are married shouldn't get divorced.
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There is no such thing as "gay marriage". That's a media term. Jesus is speaking of marriage, period.
 
Thunder said:
society has evolved a bit since 35 AD.

Im sure if Jesus was alive today, he too would evolve with the times.
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Not according to scripture. The scripture says God never changes.
 
Neal N. Bloeme said:
There is no such thing as "gay marriage". That's a media term. Jesus is speaking of marriage, period.
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Good point. Let me rephrase to say that men shouldn't divorce the men or women they are married to, and women shouldn't divorce the men or women they are married to.
 
I think Jesus wouldn't be a traditionalist in any sense. Tradition in Jesus' world was very different, and he didn't exactly embrace it. I think Jesus would do today what he always did, challenge the modern belief system. Is it possible the modern Christian church has gone off some of his message or have gone in their own direction concerning modern political debate, yes... I would say so. I think Jesus would argue with the pope and show him tough love, as opposed to kissing his hand and praying to all the saints. I think Jesus would teach the modern Christianity something.
 
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Panache said:
How do you not? Redistribution of wealth in the Kingdom of God is exactly what is being promised. That the humble will be exalted etc...
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:doh THERE IS NO MATERIAL WEALTH IN HEAVEN. there is no material. there is no money. there is no scarcity. there is nothing to "redistribute". there is no law, there is no economy.

My point is that clockwork orange style reformation of character is not antithetical to the notion of fascism.
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agreed. it is simply antithetical to Christianity. critically, those who are reformed seek it, and rather than being done for the Good Of The State, it is done for the good of the recipient.

The trinity is the government in the kingdom of God. Otherwise it wouldn't be the Kingdom of God, it would be the anarchy of reborn people.
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:shrug: you could call it anarchy if you like - but there is no "government" in the sense of "someone who tells you how fast to drive, enforces contracts, punishes wrongdoing, etc."

but you have shifted from arguing that Christ was a Fascist to arguing that Government is Fascist.

Neither of those are prerequisite to nationalism.
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one or the other. Nations are defined by geographic and/or ethnic boundaries, and nationalism is holding that one particular geographic or ethnic entity is superior to alternatives.

you are attempting to make something very large fit into something that is very small.

Yes really. Divine fiat is still production. Do you you propose that abundance will exist with no authorship at all? That creations in heaven will have no Creator?
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what would you be producing? and how would you be producing in the absence of time?

I am sure your self professed authority on the subject is very impressive to alot of people. I have no need to assert any credentials in the matter. My arguments will stand on their own merits.
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:lol: well, that they certainly do :lol:
 
Thunder said:
society has evolved a bit since 35 AD.

Im sure if Jesus was alive today, he too would evolve with the times.
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:lol: do you have any idea what you just said?
 
All I would know is that the GOP would call him a socialist.
 
cpwill said:
:doh THERE IS NO MATERIAL WEALTH IN HEAVEN. there is no material. there is no money. there is no scarcity. there is nothing to "redistribute". there is no law, there is no economy.
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Treasures exist in heaven. (Matt 6:20) Whether they are material or not is ironically immaterial.

agreed. it is simply antithetical to Christianity. critically, those who are reformed seek it, and rather than being done for the Good Of The State, it is done for the good of the recipient.
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And those who don't seek it will be enemies of the State, and will be smited by the armies of God when armageddon rolls around. When the choices are to either align your will with that of the State or to face divine wrath, I don't see how that makes the State non-fascist.

:shrug: you could call it anarchy if you like - but there is no "government" in the sense of "someone who tells you how fast to drive, enforces contracts, punishes wrongdoing, etc."
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Seems to me that wrongdoing has been punished in heaven before. Anyway, do you have some biblical basis for believing that Jesus will not reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords?

but you have shifted from arguing that Christ was a Fascist to arguing that Government is Fascist.
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How so? I only think that one party, totalitarian, authoritarian dictatorships are fascist. If Jesus made the claim that no one would rule in Heaven, I would call Him an anarchist. If He made the claim that heaven would be governed by whatever the majority thought right, I would call Him democratic.


one or the other. Nations are defined by geographic and/or ethnic boundaries, and nationalism is holding that one particular geographic or ethnic entity is superior to alternatives.
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You mean like the claim that being a spiritual descendant of Abraham through the same faith that was credited to him as righteousness is superior to alternatives? That is spiritually ethnic identity. Claiming that belonging to the Kingdom of God is superior to alteratives is a spiritual national identity.

what would you be producing? and how would you be producing in the absence of time?
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Firstly, please produce a verse that indicates that time does not exist in heaven. Secondly, if your concept of heaven is a bunch of nothingness filled with more nothingness, populated by nothingness, it seems your heaven is one and the same with the atheist concept of heaven. If heaven contains anything, whatever that thing is, there is your answer. Someone has to produce the treasures mentioned in Matt 6:20.
 
Jesus was a liberal of his time he opposed the Jewish prophecies that if you didn't follow the rules you'll go to hell. I think today, if he had to pick sides he would be a conservative. I believe this because he is against abortion, gay marriage, and contaceptives.
 
Mangoman said:
Jesus was a liberal of his time he opposed the Jewish prophecies that if you didn't follow the rules you'll go to hell. I think today, if he had to pick sides he would be a conservative. I believe this because he is against abortion, gay marriage, and contaceptives.
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Where did Jesus ever say He was against any of those things?
 
Mangoman said:
Jesus was a liberal of his time he opposed the Jewish prophecies that if you didn't follow the rules you'll go to hell. I think today, if he had to pick sides he would be a conservative. I believe this because he is against abortion, gay marriage, and contaceptives.
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According to scripture Jesus is not against contraceptives, that is a Catholic thing with no biblical precedent. Abortion is a toss up because some consider abortion murder and some don't. He stated matter of factly marriage is between one man and one woman.

Jesus was not a liberal in his time, he was a radical or revolutionary but not liberal. He was not concerned with government or politics at all, he was concerned with spiritual salvation. Today left wing people would call him Nazi or homophobe for his stance on marriage, and conservatives would call him socialist for his views on wealth and poverty. In the end he would be an independent, lol.
 
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Christ was not at all concerned with the petty politics of mortals. In fact, to a great extent he was rejected by his fellow Jews because he was not the earthly king (who would lead a revolt against Rome) that they were expecting, So the correct answer to this is "none of the above".

That said, what is truly fascinating by the question, or more specifically the results, is the people on this board overwhelming think of Christ as a liberal. Now, if you polled "Are you a liberal or conservative, you would get an even split AND if you polled how many here think they are Christians, you would find 80% that say that. So, the illogic here is that if Christians are followers of Christ and most people see Christ as a liberal, shouldn't Christians tend toward being liberal? Or, is the conservative philosophy contrary to the teachings of Christ and if so, then isn't being conservative meaning you are taking your personal interests and beliefs over the teachings of Christ and therefore such people are not really Christians? (Only drawing logical questions from the result; not questioning anyone's relationship with Christ)
 
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upsideguy said:
Christ was not at all concerned with the petty politics of mortals. In fact, to a great extent he was rejected by his fellow Jews because he was not the earthly king (who would lead a revolt against Rome) that they were expecting, So the correct answer to this is "none of the above".

That said, what is truly fascinating by the question, or more specifically the results, is the people on this board overwhelming think of Christ as a liberal. Now, if you polled "Are you a liberal or conservative, you would get an even split AND if you polled how many here think they are Christians, you would find 80% that say that. So, the illogic here is that if Christians are followers of Christ and most people see Christ as a liberal, shouldn't Christians tend toward being liberal? Or, is the conservative philosophy contrary to the teachings of Christ and if so, then isn't being conservative meaning you are taking your personal interests and beliefs over the teachings of Christ and therefore such people are not really Christians? (Only drawing logical questions from the result; not questioning anyone's relationship with Christ)
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The problem is the results are not accurate. I would be willing to lay money down that the majority of the "liberal" votes are indeed by liberal's, and independent in name only. Now most (much like myself) conservatives did not vote because or the shear stupidity of the question. Ranking right up there with "well what would Jesus do?"
 
Blackdog said:
The problem is the results are not accurate. I would be willing to lay money down that the majority of the "liberal" votes are indeed by liberal's, and independent in name only. Now most (much like myself) conservatives did not vote because or the shear stupidity of the question. Ranking right up there with "well what would Jesus do?"
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There is probably some truth with that.... I am assuming a normal distribution of DP posters. Of course, assumption is the root of most error.

While the specific question is a bit off target, the notion of whether a political philosophy is more aligned the the TEACHINGS of Christ is a very intelligent question.... and for a Christian, one of the most relevant that can be asked.
 
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Blackdog said:
The problem is the results are not accurate. I would be willing to lay money down that the majority of the "liberal" votes are indeed by liberal's, and independent in name only. Now most (much like myself) conservatives did not vote because or the shear stupidity of the question. Ranking right up there with "well what would Jesus do?"
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Its probably more a matter of vote rigging.
 
I don't know...what do you think

JesusAll-American-778623.jpg
 
upsideguy said:
There is probably some truth with that.... I am assuming a normal distribution of DP posters. Of course, assumption is the root of most error.

While the specific question is a bit off target, the notion of whether a political philosophy is more aligned the the TEACHINGS of Christ is a very intelligent question.... and for a Christian, one of the most relevant that can be asked.
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Jesus was not about politics, he was about spiritual salvation. Jesus never got into Roman politics, ever. So no, it is a dumb question as no political philosophy aligns in any way with what Jesus taught.

So I will agree to disagree.
 
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