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Agree or Disagree with the quote?

The quote and your thoughts?

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Turin

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what gibbering madness may look like

Thought provoking ... do you agree or disagree ... comments?

Are we going to saber rattle over Iran ...? I might reconsider Ron Paul if her were not so crazy on some of the the domestic issues.

Democracy, contrary to what they try to tell us, it’s not a paper that you hang on the wall and then you have a democracy. Democracy is a social evolution. It is something cultural. Iranians, they have become much more secular, and they are ready for democracy, but they have to fight themselves for democracy, and the only thing that other countries can do is to understand their fight and help them in their fight. Marjane Satrapi, Iranian graphic novelist
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I said "other". I agree that people are not that different, for the most part, but governments are.
 
I am very different from many people on this forum and in my life, so yes I disagree.
 
Actually ... I liked the quote! ... yet on my mind is all the reckless saber rattling the GOP is doing in the debates (except for Ron Paul). They are recklessly encouraging a rush to war and inaccurately portraying President Obama as an appeaser. it kind of reminds me of GWB and the scary WMD pointed at us and the mushroom cloud story in that low hushed voice. Especially Santorum ... I like when Paul calls them out on it!
 
Henrin said:
I am very different from many people on this forum and in my life, so yes I disagree.
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Oh yes good point ... yet I think her juxtaposition was not of the all the unique and fascinating qualities among each person yet we as individuals share the same disconnect and wide gulf with our governments.
 
I agree. With stipulations.
Supporting a green revolution that wants to tear a while government down is wrong and destabilizing. We wouldnt support alot of the folks in that revolution running things at home I assume, alot of them were fighting for freedom and democracy as it were. And we shouldnt believe that they would happen to have a positive view on Israel. If we know anything about the middle east is that when they vote... they vote for islamists. Supporting the parties and candidates that want to run and are often forbidden as per a few years ago in Iran... most definitely.
 
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Dion said:
Actually ... I liked the quote! ... yet on my mind is all the reckless saber rattling the GOP is doing in the debates (except for Ron Paul). They are recklessly encouraging a rush to war and inaccurately portraying President Obama as an appeaser. it kind of reminds me of GWB and the scary WMD pointed at us and the mushroom cloud story in that low hushed voice. Especially Santorum ... I like when Paul calls them out on it!
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Reckless rush to war....How many years must we impose sanctions and try diplomacy before it is no longer considered a "reckless rush to war"?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Reckless rush to war....How many years must we impose sanctions and try diplomacy before it is no longer considered a "reckless rush to war"?
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The US tries diplomacy?

We don't have an embassy.
 
It is incumbent on US leadership to prevent those whose mantra is something along the lines of "Death to America" from acquiring WMD. It is also incumbent on Israeli leadership to do the same. Whether by diplomacy, saber-rattling or other actions, that is completely irrelevant to achieving their goal.
 
Meathead said:
It is incumbent on US leadership to prevent those whose mantra is something along the lines of "Death to America" from acquiring WMD. It is also incumbent on Israeli leadership to do the same. Whether by diplomacy, saber-rattling or other actions, that is completely irrelevant to achieving their goal.
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Wouldn't it be silly if we did something really really really bad to them in the past that we don't talk about.... ever? And that's why they're angry?
 
MKULTRABOY said:
Wouldn't it be silly if we did something really really really bad to them in the past that we don't talk about.... ever? And that's why they're angry?
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You mean like seizing their embassy and keeping the staff hostage for 444 days? Boy, I'd be pissed!
 
This person is living a utopian dream.

The following statement has no basis in reality:

If I have one message to give to the secular American people, it’s that the world is not divided into countries.
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Dion said:
what gibbering madness may look like

Thought provoking ... do you agree or disagree ... comments?

Are we going to saber rattle over Iran ...? I might reconsider Ron Paul if her were not so crazy on some of the the domestic issues.
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I completely agree. Some cultures and handle democracy but most cannot. There is a definite difference in maturity when it comes to societies.

Even as a society matures, there will always be throwbacks to inferior ways of life. However in the case of Iran, I don't believe that they are at the tipping point yet. The internet is certainly speeding it along, but in my guess, its probably going to be another decade before they are ready. The youth need greater numbers, more governing experience, and more societal power and institutions that are their own before they can make a smooth transition.
 
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Meathead said:
You mean like seizing their embassy and keeping the staff hostage for 444 days? Boy, I'd be pissed!
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Totally, I'dve just ****in killed em all and let em **** the sand in the air if they replaced my government.

I completely agree. Some cultures and handle democracy but most cannot. There is a definite difference in maturity when it comes to societies.
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I can't wait till America can handle democracy.

:coffeepap:
 
I answered 'Agree', because the question is one of comparing magnitudes. Not a question of the governments being effectively the same, as they are not. (Sorry, again, I'm a retired design engineer.)
 
Of course we are mostly the same. People all across the world want the same things. We want comfort, security, freedom... all of that. We want to live our lives free from fear, free from the control of others. We want to love and be loved. And we're all afraid of the same things.

That's the difference between cultures with democracies and those without. It comes from people trusting each other, putting aside their differences and working together. That doesn't come from where in the world you live, or anyone's stupid religious bullcrap. There is nothing fundamentally different about us, about Iranians, about Taiwanese, about Aboriginal tribes in Australia, Brasilians (I hang around so many of them that I spell it their way :p)... white people, black people, Hispanics, Asians, Jew, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, all of us!

Every moron who struts around thinking that their country, or their culture is magically superior... that person is part of the problem, and not part of the solution. We make progress by helping each other, not by looking down on each other, and especially not hurting each other. Don't forget, we in the west have been trampling on the Middle East and twisting its politics, its nations, and its people for our own ends for most of the last century. Until we own up to our mistakes and focus on making things better, all we're going to do is make things worse.
 
I agree with it. You cannot impose democracy on a people, they have to adopt it for themselves. What we did in Iraq will likely come back to bite us. We can't make them democratic in the long term, we can set up the systems, put people in place to whisper the right things in their ears, but if they don't embrace it on their own and change their way of thinking on their own, it will never last. Iran is the same way. We can show them the way, we can show them the benefits, but we can't make them take that path. So far, they have not. I don't know that most of the Middle East will ever take that path because they're so utterly mired in religious dogma that they cannot accept a non-religious government.

Maybe some day, not right now.
 
Mycroft said:
btw, Dion, it would have been nice if you had given the direct link to the site you got your quote from, don't you think?

Sexual revolutionaries - Salon.com
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Oh ... The quote was sent to me with the author so I sited and credited the author. I just read the article and interesting and surprising to me actually. Non political yet ... kind of a culture shock!

Thanks!
 
Paschendale said:
Of course we are mostly the same. People all across the world want the same things. We want comfort, security, freedom... all of that. We want to live our lives free from fear, free from the control of others. We want to love and be loved. And we're all afraid of the same things.

That's the difference between cultures with democracies and those without. It comes from people trusting each other, putting aside their differences and working together. That doesn't come from where in the world you live, or anyone's stupid religious bullcrap. There is nothing fundamentally different about us, about Iranians, about Taiwanese, about Aboriginal tribes in Australia, Brasilians (I hang around so many of them that I spell it their way :p)... white people, black people, Hispanics, Asians, Jew, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, atheists, all of us!

Every moron who struts around thinking that their country, or their culture is magically superior... that person is part of the problem, and not part of the solution. We make progress by helping each other, not by looking down on each other, and especially not hurting each other. Don't forget, we in the west have been trampling on the Middle East and twisting its politics, its nations, and its people for our own ends for most of the last century. Until we own up to our mistakes and focus on making things better, all we're going to do is make things worse.
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Well, from my view, the West, us, has been waging resource wars in the MidEast and Iran has OIL. Our CIA is chartered to work for USA Corporations overseas, including stirring the pot to get the available resources into the US controlled distribution networks. That would be bananas and sugar cane from Latin America, coffee and cocaine from Colombia, oil/gas from Iraq, oil/gas from Libya, and to repeat, ad infinitum. The people of the US are wonderful and naive. They actually believe the Mighty Wurlitzer background themes. As if wmds, muslims, ayatollahs, nukes, and 60 million people in Iran just trying to feed their babies, just like us, has anything to do with reality.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Reckless rush to war....How many years must we impose sanctions and try diplomacy before it is no longer considered a "reckless rush to war"?
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We need to pray for a brokered GOP convention where they select Jeb Bush as the nominee. After Jeb Bush is elected president, he can get valuable advice on middle east foreign policy from Cheney.
 
DaveFagan said:
Well, from my view, the West, us, has been waging resource wars in the MidEast and Iran has OIL. Our CIA is chartered to work for USA Corporations overseas, including stirring the pot to get the available resources into the US controlled distribution networks. That would be bananas and sugar cane from Latin America, coffee and cocaine from Colombia, oil/gas from Iraq, oil/gas from Libya, and to repeat, ad infinitum. The people of the US are wonderful and naive. They actually believe the Mighty Wurlitzer background themes. As if wmds, muslims, ayatollahs, nukes, and 60 million people in Iran just trying to feed their babies, just like us, has anything to do with reality.
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Ja! The evil US just wants money!
 
From the op:
Democracy is a social evolution. It is something cultural. Iranians, they have become much more secular, and they are ready for democracy

At one point, this was true. In the 70's Iran looked much more secular collectively. What has happened (it appears to me), is that there has been a divergence in the population, with some of it become more islamic extremist, and some of the people remaining more westernized in appearance and culture. I suspect this has to do with western intervention in that part of the world, unfortunately.
 
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