• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Can you be X ideology and a christian?

Can you be X ideology and a christian?


  • Total voters
    18

Slartibartfast

Jesus loves you.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
71,657
Reaction score
58,024
Location
NE Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Ok,
Given this quote, what is your view

Santorum Question 4: Is Obama a sincere, liberal Christian? » OCRPL

(4) QUESTION: What would your opinion be of this stance: Obama has been very honest in the past about his faith. He said he was attracted to the church because of its non-literal approach to the Bible. Now that’s coming through Wright. His speech before the United Church of Christ, he very much embraced the basic theological approach of the United Church of Christ. So you could say that he is a very sincere, liberal Christian, with a non-literal approach to Scripture, who would argue that, voicing Niebuhr, that the primary application of the Gospel is in issues of economic, social justice. And that he accepts his church’s teaching on sexuality, in the same way that you accept your church’s teachings on sexuality. So in that case he is a sincere liberal Christian. Would you buy that?

ANSWER:
I could buy that. Again, yes, it goes to the larger question of whether I could buy that overall from that point of view. But is there such thing as a sincere liberal Christian, which says that we basically take this document and re-write it ourselves? Is that really Christian? That’s a bigger question for me. And the answer is, no, it’s not. I don’t think there is such a thing. To take what is plainly written and say that I don’t agree with that, therefore, I don’t have to pay attention to it, means you’re not what you say you are. You’re a liberal something, but you’re not a Christian. That’s sort of how I look at it.

When you go so far afield of that and take what is a salvation story and turn it into a liberation theology story, which is done in the Catholic world as well as in the evangelical world, you have abandoned Christendom, in my opinion. And you don’t have a right to claim it.

Personally, I am quite offended at his judgmental nature. Religion and Politics and their relationship to each other is a complex matter that is not so easily defined. Santorum is correct in the aspect that his interpretation of Christianity and liberalism do not mix, but given that there have been any number of interpretations throughout history by very sincere people and groups that do not agree (catholocism vs protestentism vs orthodox for example) on anything beyond the very basics, his arrogance in thinking that he can define what Christianity is, more so than God, just amazes me.

The fact is, with any complex subject, like a religion, people are going to bring their viewpoints and life experiences with them. They will understand what they understand based largely on concepts that they are already familiar and comfortable with and that will color their view on this subject. THIS IS UNAVOIDABLE and scratch the surface of anyone who believes they have it "right" (except for Jesus) and you will find a person who is small minded enough to not feel the need to learn new ideas.

So, Mr. Santorum, you can continue to be a small minded person who doesn't take life experience into account when making these judgments, but that is your failing, not anyone else's. Such a view is not a conviction or any of that crap, its just you being dumb enough to think your ideology is the best possible and not being open to ideas or data (basically not being open to reality in preference to your own ideas and perceptions)

(yes I know I am judging right back, but I am judging his actions, not his motivations, there is a huge difference (before someone attempts to accuse me of something))
 
Last edited:
my religion doesnt determine my political ideology but i would be both a christian and socialist or social democrat.
 
You can be any of those and be a Christian. Ironically, Jesus Christ - if you listen to Scripture - was probably closest to being a communist. He shunned material wealth, and he contributed to equality amongst the masses.

The only difference is that he didn't live in Mary and Joseph's basement in his 20s, bitching about people with money.
 
You can be any of those and be a Christian. Ironically, Jesus Christ - if you listen to Scripture - was probably closest to being a communist. He shunned material wealth, and he contributed to equality amongst the masses.

The only difference is that he didn't live in Mary and Joseph's basement in his 20s, bitching about people with money.

Well, its easy to be a communist if you can create food out of thin air. If Jesus did not have those constraints, I believe his actions would have been different, based on the fact that he did not take a stance on the current political climate of his time "render on to ceasar" beyond following the law when it does not conflict with the greater cause of Christianity. However, given the communal nature of the early church, you may well be correct too.
 
I'm sure he'd be a Ramen noodle and Kool-aid guy if not for the ability to wiggle his nose or snap his fingers and create the Golden Corral menu. He seemed the type.
 
Sure you can. I'm not Christian in the commonly accepted meaning of the term, but I share many of the same values, and I'm libertarian.
 
So you're not a real Christian unless you're a supporter of the GOP. It doesn't get more ****ed up than that.
 
I would hope you can be of any political affiliation, and also be a Christian. I once thought you simply needed to accept Jesus as Savior...but as of late it seems that is no longer enough...go figure.
 
Ok,
Given this quote, what is your view

Santorum Question 4: Is Obama a sincere, liberal Christian? » OCRPL



Personally, I am quite offended at his judgmental nature. Religion and Politics and their relationship to each other is a complex matter that is not so easily defined. Santorum is correct in the aspect that his interpretation of Christianity and liberalism do not mix, but given that there have been any number of interpretations throughout history by very sincere people and groups that do not agree (catholocism vs protestentism vs orthodox for example) on anything beyond the very basics, his arrogance in thinking that he can define what Christianity is, more so than God, just amazes me.

The fact is, with any complex subject, like a religion, people are going to bring their viewpoints and life experiences with them. They will understand what they understand based largely on concepts that they are already familiar and comfortable with and that will color their view on this subject. THIS IS UNAVOIDABLE and scratch the surface of anyone who believes they have it "right" (except for Jesus) and you will find a person who is small minded enough to not feel the need to learn new ideas.

So, Mr. Santorum, you can continue to be a small minded person who doesn't take life experience into account when making these judgments, but that is your failing, not anyone else's. Such a view is not a conviction or any of that crap, its just you being dumb enough to think your ideology is the best possible and not being open to ideas or data (basically not being open to reality in preference to your own ideas and perceptions)

(yes I know I am judging right back, but I am judging his actions, not his motivations, there is a huge difference (before someone attempts to accuse me of something))

Interesting that he had the balls to bring up people choosing what parts of the bible they want to follow, considering the extent to which fundies pick and choose themselves.

Homosexuality? "No! Clearly proscribed! Sodom and Gommorah!!!11!1!!

Disrespecting your parents or tebow throwing the pigskin on Sunday?

"Well, you don't want to take things too literally, it was a different time, blah blah blah, etc., etc.."
 
Yes to all of the above. I agree with Gipper. Today Jesus would probably be considered a long-haired, anarchist, tree-hugger. Alhtough, the tree wasn't by his own choice.

I think religious right wingers cannot see that the GOP has been exploiting their belief system for a long time. The smoke screen haze hides the big money cooperate greed motive. Our parties did not used to be as divided 20-30 years ago as they are now.
 
Personally, I think the question and answer were absolutely dumb. The problem is, everybody thinks their version of Christianity is "right", and only their version is right. Anybody who doesn't believe exactly as I believe is wrong, wrong, wrong. It's a vicious cycle of idiocy.

So in answer to the poll, yes to all. In response to Santorum...go **** yourself, you judgmental little prick.
 
Personal religious beliefs should not influence the ruling of a group, especially one that is as diverse as ours is.
 
We will find out at the end. Do you follow the New Testament, or not? The Book of Acts talks of speaking in tongues as one step in salvation. How many social conservatives speak in tongues?
 
We will find out at the end. Do you follow the New Testament, or not? The Book of Acts talks of speaking in tongues as one step in salvation. How many social conservatives speak in tongues?

Its one of many gifts of the spirit.

12:27 Now you are Christ’s body, and each of you is a member of it. 12:28 And God has placed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, gifts of healing, helps, gifts of leadership, different kinds of tongues. 12:29 Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform miracles, do they? 12:30 Not all have gifts of healing, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they? Not all interpret, do they? 7 12:31 But you should be eager for the greater gifts.
 
We will find out at the end. Do you follow the New Testament, or not? The Book of Acts talks of speaking in tongues as one step in salvation. How many social conservatives speak in tongues?

I would venture a guess that *at the end*, nobody will much care either way. ;)
 
They might care.

They might, but even if they do, it's their concern, not that of the rest of us. That being said, at the end of life, a rational analytical state of mind is not typically present.
 
I said facism. It seems that most of the ideals of facism make it hard to follow both Mussolini and Christ.

Outside of that, you can't be a Marxist and a Christian. Marxism includes atheism as a key tenet -- if you believe in God, you're not a Marxist, and if don't believe in God, you're not a Christian.
 
We will find out at the end. Do you follow the New Testament, or not? The Book of Acts talks of speaking in tongues as one step in salvation. How many social conservatives speak in tongues?

Wellll, the blather that comes out of talk radio could be considered speaking in tongues.

A lot of it makes about as much sense.
 
Ok,
Given this quote, what is your view

Santorum Question 4: Is Obama a sincere, liberal Christian? » OCRPL



Personally, I am quite offended at his judgmental nature. Religion and Politics and their relationship to each other is a complex matter that is not so easily defined. Santorum is correct in the aspect that his interpretation of Christianity and liberalism do not mix, but given that there have been any number of interpretations throughout history by very sincere people and groups that do not agree (catholocism vs protestentism vs orthodox for example) on anything beyond the very basics, his arrogance in thinking that he can define what Christianity is, more so than God, just amazes me.

The fact is, with any complex subject, like a religion, people are going to bring their viewpoints and life experiences with them. They will understand what they understand based largely on concepts that they are already familiar and comfortable with and that will color their view on this subject. THIS IS UNAVOIDABLE and scratch the surface of anyone who believes they have it "right" (except for Jesus) and you will find a person who is small minded enough to not feel the need to learn new ideas.

So, Mr. Santorum, you can continue to be a small minded person who doesn't take life experience into account when making these judgments, but that is your failing, not anyone else's. Such a view is not a conviction or any of that crap, its just you being dumb enough to think your ideology is the best possible and not being open to ideas or data (basically not being open to reality in preference to your own ideas and perceptions)

(yes I know I am judging right back, but I am judging his actions, not his motivations, there is a huge difference (before someone attempts to accuse me of something))


I was ready to join you in condemning Santorum for proclaiming someone Notta-Real-Christian based on political ideology.... but then I went back and read a bit more carefully, and thought a bit.

This is worth taking note of...


{Obama's presumed position} with a non-literal approach to Scripture, who would argue that, voicing Niebuhr, that the primary application of the Gospel is in issues of economic, social justice.

{Santorum}When you go so far afield of that and take what is a salvation story and turn it into a liberation theology story, .... you have abandoned Christendom, in my opinion.


What Santorum seems to be saying is that those who think the Gospel is primarily about social/economic justice have missed the boat entirely and misconstrued a spiritual message for a political one.

I agree with that entirely.
 
Wellll, the blather that comes out of talk radio could be considered speaking in tongues.A lot of it makes about as much sense.
Well... respectfully, I disagree. They are far different.
 
Its one of many gifts of the spirit.

12:27 Now you are Christ’s body, and each of you is a member of it. 12:28 And God has placed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, gifts of healing, helps, gifts of leadership, different kinds of tongues. 12:29 Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform miracles, do they? 12:30 Not all have gifts of healing, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they? Not all interpret, do they? 7 12:31 But you should be eager for the greater gifts.

I always though the speaking in tongues thing was a gift for communication/language.

Spreading the word and all that.

Not being snarky but I was raised Jehovahs Witness, and broke with my faith when I was 9 or 10 over the interpretation of their whole blood transfusion thing, which seemed like a DIETARY restriction to me, and shouldn't have been applied to a human serum drug, which the.elders had used to disfellowship the most loving spiritual couple in the congregation. Their motivations were purely political, as there was an intercongregation conflict and most of the flock was coming down on the couples side. First time I ever told off grownups like an equal. I was absolutely livid. (I knew about the blood thing because I was hyper-allergic as a kid and my doctor had recommended the avoidance of blood tranfusions. Further, I had a severe reaction to a horse serum drug and was told that I would have to take a human serum in the future, so my mom asked lots of questions about exactly what that meant.)
 
I was ready to join you in condemning Santorum for proclaiming someone Notta-Real-Christian based on political ideology.... but then I went back and read a bit more carefully, and thought a bit.

This is worth taking note of...







What Santorum seems to be saying is that those who think the Gospel is primarily about social/economic justice have missed the boat entirely and misconstrued a spiritual message for a political one.

I agree with that entirely.

I agree with that too, but if this is the case, then santorum is accusing all christians who happen to be liberal to have this as their view of the theology, this stance of his is also worthy of condemnation on the basis of it not being true.
 
Back
Top Bottom