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Is Obama just really Bush II?

Is Obama just really Bush II?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 37.0%

  • No

    Votes: 29 63.0%
  • Total voters
    46
Fiddytree said:
You will be hard pressed to find dramatic results from one administration to the next, but within those limited changes there is a distinction.
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This reflects my thoughts.
 
OnWisconsin said:
I think you guys are missing the glaringly obvious difference of Obama actually having a functioning brain. Obama has been fighting a congress that is so dysfunctional it is almost non-existent. That being said, he has gotten a surprisingly long list of accomplishments, all while painting the Republicans into a corner as being the corporate lap dogs they are.

You have to understand that there is not going to be any major differences between presidents when the congress that actually controls things is made up of the same idiots that were there with the previous administration.
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Their differences and qubbling are merely bad theatre for the masses to consume. Notice the awful acting? Its shadow puppet theatre! Then the media can concentrate on personalities, and cable news muppets can toss fodder to Jon Stewart.

All the while, the war machine makes slaves of you all by ensaring you in a cycle of mass murder, poverty, disease, homelessness, unemployment , and hatred. All of our nations ills, as well as the doomed fate of those countries victimized by our voracious multiheaded hydra called "National Security," stem from the endless cycle of madness this massive Pentagon inflicts on the world.
 
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Obama is more diplomatic towards us Europeans. Both in style and policies. He doesn't tell us to shut up and follow him, but actually coordinates his efforts with us. And Obama uses the UN when it's helpful, instead of actively obstructing it.

That's a change already. Maybe not a great change, all in all, but it's something.
 
I do know there is a sort of freedom in a second term. Knowing that you cannot be elected again frees you up to do some of the things that might have been too "taboo" in your previous term. I am willing to give him 4 more years, if for no other reason than appointing supreme court justices. I think we all can agree that the real power ends at the judicial branch.
 
No, but according the candidate's policy proposals, Romney is Bush II!

Deregulation, bigger tax cuts for the rich, and increased spending on the military.

Economist's report his plans will result in bigger deficits, just as did the same policies under Bush.
 
i had thought he wouldnt be the second bush but it seems he will complete what junior bush couldnt manage to do
 
Kane said:
Their differences and qubbling are merely bad theatre for the masses to consume. Notice the awful acting? Its shadow puppet theatre! Then the media can concentrate on personalities, and cable news muppets can toss fodder to Jon Stewart.

All the while, the war machine makes slaves of you all by ensaring you in a cycle of mass murder, poverty, disease, homelessness, unemployment , and hatred. All of our nations ills, as well as the doomed fate of those countries victimized by our voracious multiheaded hydra called "National Security," stem from the endless cycle of madness this massive Pentagon inflicts on the world.
Click to expand...

Ever notice how the least insightful people claim to be above the rest of us for seeing something they claim is dooming us?
 
Catawba said:
No, but according the candidate's policy proposals, Romney is Bush II!

Deregulation, bigger tax cuts for the rich, and increased spending on the military.

Economist's report his plans will result in bigger deficits, just as did the same policies under Bush.
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And Obama's won't?
 
Black_Zawisza said:
And Obama's won't?
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Unlike Romney, Obama is for the opposite of the Bush policies, he is for more financial regulation of the banks, eliminating the tax cuts for the rich, and less military spending.

As Bill Maher noted when he donated a million dollars to Obama's reelection, my reason is mostly selfish, because I know 4 years of the deregulation and supply side economics as we had under Bush will cost me more than a million dollars.
 
Catawba said:
Unlike Romney, Obama is for the opposite of the Bush policies, he is for more financial regulation of the banks, eliminating the tax cuts for the rich, and less military spending.

As Bill Maher noted when he donated a million dollars to Obama's reelection, my reason is mostly selfish, because I know 4 years of the deregulation and supply side economics as we had under Bush will cost me more than a million dollars.
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I'd hardly consider corporatism the opposite of center-left regulatory policy. But regardless, my point was that Obama promised he'd halve the deficit, when he literally did the exact opposite and doubled it. I haven't heard him propose any serious plans to deal with the debt, and if he ever does, I'll believe in his commitment to deficit reduction when I see it happening.
 
Catawba said:
Obama is for the opposite of the Bush policies, he is for more financial regulation of the banks, eliminating the tax cuts for the rich, and less military spending.
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That's true in a few cases, but on many big issues, he has continued or even expanded Bush's policies. They've already been listed in this thread, but I'll repeat them for you.

things that have been kept the same:
- warrantless wiretaps
- Gitmo
- Patriot Act
- opposition to gay marriage

Bush policies that Obama expanded:
- Bush increased spending on health (Medicare part D), Obama added Obamacare
- Bush cut taxes, Obama cut them further
- Bush increased spending, Obama increased it further
- Bush supported policies that led to the mortgage meltdown, Obama kept those policies and added an $8K tax credit
- Bush bailed out the banks, Obama supported that and bailed out GM and Chrysler

There are examples of Obama reversing Bush's policies. I applaud him for ending waterboarding, but for the most part, Obama kept Bush's most hated policies and expanded them in some cases. His two biggest policy initiatives (ARRA & Obamacare), are anything but policy reversals. We're still going the same direction, only much faster. Bush was Obama Light.

Edit: I also applaud Obama for repealing DADT. I'm glad that he supports nuclear energy, supports ending corporate tax loopholes and reducing the nominal rate, and supports cutting military spending, but those things haven't materialized yet.
 
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Kane said:
Their differences and quibbling are merely bad theatre for the masses to consume. Notice the awful acting? Its shadow puppet theatre! Then the media can concentrate on personalities, and cable news muppets can toss fodder to Jon Stewart.

All the while, the war machine makes slaves of you all by ensaring you in a cycle of mass murder, poverty, disease, homelessness, unemployment , and hatred. All of our nations ills, as well as the doomed fate of those countries victimized by our voracious multiheaded hydra called "National Security," stem from the endless cycle of madness this massive Pentagon inflicts on the world.
Click to expand...

Fiddytree said:
Ever notice how the least insightful people claim to be above the rest of us for seeing something they claim is dooming us?
Click to expand...

No, I think you must be hallucinating.
 
mpg said:
That's true in a few cases, but on many big issues, he has continued or even expanded Bush's policies. They've already been listed in this thread, but I'll repeat them for you.

things that have been kept the same:
- warrantless wiretaps
- Gitmo
- Patriot Act
Click to expand...

All policies supported by the viable GOP candidates. If you wish to look for opposition, you will have to look to the Democrats in Congress.

- opposition to gay marriage,
Click to expand...

Personal opinion, also shared by the GOP candidates. There is no Obama policy on this issue.

Bush policies that Obama expanded:
- Bush increased spending on health (Medicare part D), Obama added Obamacare
Click to expand...

Which cuts medicare spending over the next ten years.

- Bush increased spending, Obama increased it further
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Bush tax cuts benefitted the wealthy most.
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Obama's tax cuts benefitted the working class the most and stimulate the economy more.


- Bush supported policies that led to the mortgage meltdown, Obama kept those policies and added an $8K tax credit
Click to expand...

Obama supported financial regulatory reform which the GOP oppose.


- Bush bailed out the banks, Obama supported that and bailed out GM and Chrysler
Click to expand...

Without the bailout, the banks too big to fail created by deregulation, would have caused the economy to collapse. Without the loan to GM and Chrysler, our unemployment and economy would have been worse.

There are examples of Obama reversing Bush's policies. I applaud him for ending waterboarding, but for the most part, Obama kept Bush's most hated policies and expanded them in some cases. His two biggest policy initiatives (ARRA & Obamacare), are anything but policy reversals. We're still going the same direction, only much faster. Bush was Obama Light.
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You ignore the financial regulatory reform, and the increased revenues proposed under Obama. Romney is just promising more of the Bush policies that drove us into the ditch to begin with.

Edit: I also applaud Obama for repealing DADT. I'm glad that he supports nuclear energy, supports ending corporate tax loopholes and reducing the nominal rate, and supports cutting military spending, but those things haven't materialized yet.
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The first nuclear plants in over 3 decades have begun construction, the cut to military spending are already under way, the Pentagon as already announced they will comply. The elimination for the tax cuts for the wealthy will require some seat changes in the House in November.
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Black_Zawisza said:
I'd hardly consider corporatism the opposite of center-left regulatory policy. But regardless, my point was that Obama promised he'd halve the deficit, when he literally did the exact opposite and doubled it. I haven't heard him propose any serious plans to deal with the debt, and if he ever does, I'll believe in his commitment to deficit reduction when I see it happening.
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He has more spending cuts in his plan than Romney does in his. I'm going with the lowest spender among the viable candidates.
 
Catawba said:
He has more spending cuts in his plan than Romney does in his. I'm going with the lowest spender among the viable candidates.
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I don't disagree. But he remains a Bu****e on spending nonetheless.

EDIT: Ha, I tried to say Bush - ite but it wouldn't let me. :lol:
 
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Catawba said:
Show me where Bush cut military spending?
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I didn't say he did. Bush liked his guns and butter, whereas Obama likes butter a little more and guns a little less. In the end, all that matters is that they and every hypothetical 2012 president save for Paul are driving us off a cliff.
 
Black_Zawisza said:
I didn't say he did. Bush liked his guns and butter, whereas Obama likes butter a little more and guns a little less. In the end, all that matters is that they and every hypothetical 2012 president save for Paul are driving us off a cliff.
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Poppycock! Increasing the GDP, reducing our most wasteful spending, and increasing revenues will lead to a lower deficit than the GOP's promise of more of the Bush policies.

Paul can't win, so his policy proposals are not in the running.
 
OnWisconsin said:
I think you guys are missing the glaringly obvious difference of Obama actually having a functioning brain. Obama has been fighting a congress that is so dysfunctional it is almost non-existent. That being said, he has gotten a surprisingly long list of accomplishments, all while painting the Republicans into a corner as being the corporate lap dogs they are.

You have to understand that there is not going to be any major differences between presidents when the congress that actually controls things is made up of the same idiots that were there with the previous administration.
Click to expand...

Kane said:
Their differences and quibbling are merely bad theatre for the masses to consume. Notice the awful acting? Its shadow puppet theatre! Then the media can concentrate on personalities, and cable news muppets can toss fodder to Jon Stewart.

All the while, the war machine makes slaves of you all by ensaring you in a cycle of mass murder, poverty, disease, homelessness, unemployment , and hatred. All of our nations ills, as well as the doomed fate of those countries victimized by our voracious multiheaded hydra called "National Security," stem from the endless cycle of madness this massive Pentagon inflicts on the world.
Click to expand...

German guy said:
Obama is more diplomatic towards us Europeans. Both in style and policies. He doesn't tell us to shut up and follow him, but actually coordinates his efforts with us. And Obama uses the UN when it's helpful, instead of actively obstructing it.

That's a change already. Maybe not a great change, all in all, but it's something.
Click to expand...

Yes, the Obama Admin. is more diplomatic. Hillary announces to the world why Libya has to be bombed back to the stone ages, before she actually does it. Now she has announced Syria must be invaded and the U.S. drones are already invading that country. Way to earn that Nobel Peace Prize, by ratcheting up the war machine.
 
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Catawba said:
All policies supported by the viable GOP candidates. If you wish to look for opposition, you will have to look to the Democrats in Congress.
Click to expand...
This thread is about Bush and Obama.





Catawba said:
There is no Obama policy on this issue.
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Obama Still Opposes Same-Sex Marriage - Political Hotsheet - CBS News
They say that his position is "evolving", but until he changes his mind, my point still stands.





Catawba said:
Which cuts medicare spending over the next ten years.
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We'll see if that materializes. Cutting payments to hospitals just shifts costs to the states. Cutting payments to doctors isn't working out too well. Well see if it's sustainable.






Catawba said:
Obama's tax cuts benefitted the working class the most and stimulate the economy more.


Obama supported financial regulatory reform which the GOP oppose.


Without the bailout, the banks too big to fail created by deregulation, would have caused the economy to collapse. Without the loan to GM and Chrysler, our unemployment and economy would have been worse.


You ignore the financial regulatory reform, and the increased revenues proposed under Obama. Romney is just promising more of the Bush policies that drove us into the ditch to begin with.
Click to expand...
None of that contradicts what I said.
 
mpg said:
This thread is about Bush and Obama.
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but the comparison is more apt between Bush and Romney.


We'll see if that materializes. Cutting payments to hospitals just shifts costs to the states. Cutting payments to doctors isn't working out too well. Well see if it's sustainable.
Click to expand...

As the CBO projected, and reality now shows us, the spending cuts are helping rather than hurting.

None of that contradicts what I said.
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I think it does, and I bet most agree with me in November.
 
Catawba said:
All policies supported by the viable GOP candidates. If you wish to look for opposition, you will have to look to the Democrats in Congress.
Click to expand...

As Obama has clearly demonstrated, no you don't. You turn to the Democrats if you want the same status quo the Republicans endorse.
 
Catawba said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the comparison is more apt between Bush and Romney.
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If the next election is your concern, start a thread about Romney and Obama. This thread is about Bush and Obama. Trying to change to Bush and Romney makes no sense at all.





Catawba said:
As the CBO projected, and reality now shows us, the spending cuts are helping rather than hurting.
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link please, thanks





Catawba said:
I think it does, and I bet most agree with me in November.
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I stated facts. You countered with a mixture of opinions and facts, but even your opinions didn't contradict the facts, regardless of what you "think".
 
Catawba said:
"Twenty-six Republicans voted with 122 Democrats to oppose the measure, while 67 Democrats voted with 210 Republicans to back it. Ten members did not vote."

44 - House rejects measure that would extend key Patriot Act provisions through December


By my count that is a heck of a lot more Democrats opposed to it than Republicans.
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Yeah, but we still have the Patriot Act and all sorts of other new laws as well. We got GITMO and expanding foreign wars, we have more government, more rules, more people going to jail. Face it, decades of Republocrat rule have brought us to the point we are at right now. And it's not the best place to be given where we started out.
 
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