• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Bargain With Iran

Make the Deal?


  • Total voters
    41
You're singing to the choir, here. Plenty of people believe it - hell, I believe it! - and most act on that belief but it's still not a fact. Israel has done a pretty good job of keeping their nuclear capability ambiguous and they've kept it up for over 40 years. You've got to give them credit for that.

If Israel is particularly smart what they've got is bombs with no cores - and cores stored somewhere else with a different group of people having access to those. That way they can in all honesty say they have no nuclear weapons.

There is more proof of Israel's nukes than of Iran's. That's what is significant.
 
There is more proof of Israel's nukes than of Iran's. That's what is significant.
I'm not particularly worried about Israel. Except for some esoteric debate we could get into about who started the Six Day War I don't think Israel has ever attacked anyone, though they have defended themselves a lot.

I also don't think anyone (with sense) is saying Iran has nukes. What everyone is trying to avoid is the possibility of them ever having them. So if you're asking "Do you think Iran should have nuclear equality with Israel?" I guess my answer would have to be "No" based on the history of the two countries.

Note that I also don't think we'll be able to keep them out of Iran's hands forever. Eventually they'll get them one way or another and we should prepare for that day.
 
Last edited:
I'm not particularly worried about Israel. Except for some esoteric debate we could get into about who started the Six Day War I don't think Israel has ever attacked anyone, though they have defended themselves a lot.

The reason it was brought up was to show that Israel could defend itself in a nuclear standoff with Iran.
 
If some US worker from one of our nuclear testing and research facilities started blabbing to the World Press we'd throw them in jail, too. It's also suspected that Dimona produces depleted uranium for use in military applications. You don't think there are secrets they might want kept about some of that stuff, too? Plenty of reasons to throw a traitor in jail, nukes not required.

Considering all he talked about was Israel's nuclear weapons program, that's highly unlikely. Beside depleted uranium is hardly a new thing.

And don't forget they were working on special mounts for harpoon missiles for their Dolphins.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/oct/12/israel1
 
Last edited:
Still talking in those "highly unlikely" terms? In other words it's just conjecture, no fact.

Israel has it's own cruise missile, the Popeye, that could theoretically carry nukes. In fact, the US military has bought a few of them. What the advantage of the Harpoon is over the Popeye I don't know but it isn't as simple as being able to carry a nuke since Israel already had that capability. None of that matters, anyway - not all of our Harpoons carry nukes so they are obviously used for conventional warfare, too.

Edit:
You might want to check some other sources on that news item, too. Most of them don't say "cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads" they say "nuclear capable cruise missiles" - big difference! Obviously the article was slanted to stir the pot and promote fear, not report the facts.
 
Last edited:
Still talking in those "highly unlikely" terms? In other words it's just conjecture, no fact.

Jailing him over non-nuclear secrets would be a bit harsh. Furthermore, if Israel didn't have nukes, why did they resort to all sorts of tricks like sealing up doors right before plant inspections?

Furthermore, considering the whole "never again" mantra of Israel, chemical weapons are not sufficient as a deterrent and Israel simply lacks the conventional military strength to knock out all of its enemies in a single strike. While it's possible they don't have nukes, that's about as likely as finding magical space pandas in the sun.
 
Please. Show me a US traitor that's still walking the streets. And Israel takes things like that a LOT more seriously than we do.

Israel has managed pretty good in the wars with it's neighbors so far - and without nukes. You'd think they were the Chosen People or something! LOL!
(I'm going to hell for that, aren't I?)
 
So you have proof of Israels nukes? Please share it with the world.

Wouldn't someone that is bluffing that they have a gun in their pocket also act as if they really did? Like I said it is possible that Israel has nukes, and most likely they do. But I will remain agnostic on the idea up until there is proof. Just like how I didnt believe that Iraq had any WMD's up until it was determined they did not.

Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weapons | World news | The Guardian

Do i have to teach you how to google?
 
Let me get this straight..... They wanna reason with a bunch of religious fanatics. Talk them into something good for the entire world (them included) Then hope that they keep their word and not build any nukes.

Well I can tell you from experience "reason with a bunch of religious fanatics" is an epic fail waiting to happen.
 
If Israel doesn't have nukes, where does that leave Vanunu???

Jailing him over non-nuclear secrets would be a bit harsh. Furthermore, if Israel didn't have nukes, why did they resort to all sorts of tricks like sealing up doors right before plant inspections?

Furthermore, considering the whole "never again" mantra of Israel, chemical weapons are not sufficient as a deterrent and Israel simply lacks the conventional military strength to knock out all of its enemies in a single strike. While it's possible they don't have nukes, that's about as likely as finding magical space pandas in the sun.
 
Please. Show me a US traitor that's still walking the streets.

the New York Times Reporters who publicized TS Collection methods being successfully employed against members of the international Al-Qaeda trunk cell. neither the collections platform nor the means were illegal, as the NYT admitted, but it materially aided the enemy by giving him a capability study of our collection and enabled him to enhance his targeting efforts through effective CounterIntel.
 
the New York Times Reporters who publicized TS Collection methods being successfully employed against members of the international Al-Qaeda trunk cell. neither the collections platform nor the means were illegal, as the NYT admitted, but it materially aided the enemy by giving him a capability study of our collection and enabled him to enhance his targeting efforts through effective CounterIntel.
And this person was working for which branch of the government? Or did they steal some documents? When was their trial and in which court?
 
it materially aided the enemy by giving him a capability study of our collection and enabled him to enhance his targeting efforts through effective CounterIntel.

Someone pass that to you in the pentagon? Or did you come up with it all by yourself?
 
I already established that I believe that Israel probably does have nukes. And yes I have seen this link before. . At best the evidence for Israeli nukes is old (1975, 1986), which could mean that Israel may or may not still have usable nukes. Hence why I was talking about them bluffing. So I remain skeptical, which is not a big deal. And for the record I do not particularly like the Israeli government.
 
At best the evidence for Israeli nukes is old (1975, 1986), which could mean that Israel may or may not still have usable nukes. Hence why I was talking about them bluffing. So I remain skeptical, which is not a big deal.

All other things aside... Why the holy hell would they give them up if they had them?
 
All other things aside... Why the holy hell would they give them up if they had them?
Like I said its no big deal. It really doesnt matter to me if they actually have them or not. Either way I do not support Israel anymore than I would support Iran. They both are nuts. And I do not trust nuts.

I just think that in a small way people like to believe Israel has nukes just like people liked to believe that Iraq had WMD's. Yes I know its not exactly the same but a similar concept. So my opinion remains skeptical as I am with most things.
 
I just think that in a small way people like to believe Israel has nukes just like people liked to believe that Iraq had WMD's. Yes I know its not exactly the same but a similar concept. So my opinion remains skeptical as I am with most things.

From what I can see Israel doesn't especially need them anyway. I don't think anyone in the ME wants to stick their hand in the meat grinder again.
 
Let me get this straight..... They wanna reason with a bunch of religious fanatics. Talk them into something good for the entire world (them included) Then hope that they keep their word and not build any nukes.

Well I can tell you from experience "reason with a bunch of religious fanatics" is an epic fail waiting to happen.

If Iran was so crazy, why didn't they give the Arabs their chemical weapons during the various wars to wipe out Israel?

Iran is hardly run by Religious Fanatics incapable of reasonable decisions that maintain their own power.
 
The primarily problem people here have discussing Iran is that they are unable to view the world from a perspective other than their own.

I have asked this a dozen times. And every time people run away as fast as they can:

When has Iran's ruling regime ever risked their own necks and their own power?
 
The primarily problem people here have discussing Iran is that they are unable to view the world from a perspective other than their own.

I have asked this a dozen times. And every time people run away as fast as they can:

When has Iran's ruling regime ever risked their own necks and their own power?
It isn't Iran using a nuke as a country that I'm worried about. I have no doubt Iran would use those as a deterrent. But what if, for whatever reason, Manhattan goes up in a nuclear cloud someday and the material used is traced back to Iran? Then a whole, new Pandora's Box is opened and I really don't want to think about the ****storm of possibilities then. We'll be forced to respond but if Iran has nukes exactly what do you suppose that response will be? I don't think economic sanctions are going to cut it under those conditions and I'm sure Iran won't take responsibility, either. That leaves few choices and all of them really, really bad.
 
It isn't Iran using a nuke as a country that I'm worried about. I have no doubt Iran would use those as a deterrent. But what if, for whatever reason, Manhattan goes up in a nuclear cloud someday and the material used is traced back to Iran? Then a whole, new Pandora's Box is opened and I really don't want to think about the ****storm of possibilities then. We'll be forced to respond but if Iran has nukes exactly what do you suppose that response will be? I don't think economic sanctions are going to cut it under those conditions and I'm sure Iran won't take responsibility, either. That leaves few choices and all of them really, really bad.

What if Manhattan goes up in a nuclear cloud someday and the material is traced back to Pakistan, or Turkey, or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia? Have we had any attacks on the US in the past from WMD traced back to Iran?

I think we need to be sure that we are not starting war against a people because our fears have gotten the best of us.
 
What if Manhattan goes up in a nuclear cloud someday and the material is traced back to Pakistan, or Turkey, or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia? Have we had any attacks on the US in the past from WMD traced back to Iran?

I think we need to be sure that we are not starting war against a people because our fears have gotten the best of us.
That sounds like the same arguments that were going around before 9/11. Dont worry we are safe right? And before you go all ape**** on that, I too do not think at this point there is any excuse to attack Iran. But to be sure Iran is not a peaceful nation by any stretch of propaganda.
 
What if Manhattan goes up in a nuclear cloud someday and the material is traced back to Pakistan, or Turkey, or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia? Have we had any attacks on the US in the past from WMD traced back to Iran?

I think we need to be sure that we are not starting war against a people because our fears have gotten the best of us.

I think your example is too simple. It's easy to figure out. If we could identify nuclear material coming from Pakistan or NK, then obviously we go after the people responsible. We shouldn't go after Iran just because another country suddenly got retarded.
 
That sounds like the same arguments that were going around before 9/11. Dont worry we are safe right? And before you go all ape**** on that, I too do not think at this point there is any excuse to attack Iran. But to be sure Iran is not a peaceful nation by any stretch of propaganda.

Would a preventative war on Saudi Arabia have stopped the 19 Saudis that attacked the US on 9/11? BTW, the US has attacked more countries than has Iran. Just sayin.....................
 
Back
Top Bottom