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which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?


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So you are in favor of a single world government?

If all humans on this planet in all nations were ready for democracy/republicanism, believed in these values and supported such a government, why not? But we're not that far yet. Too many people don't believe in the values of freedom and democracy, and too many people resent each other because of nationalistic and/or religious prejudices.

For the time being, I believe nation-states, or maybe even multi-national alliances such as the EU (which are based on equal values) are the maximum we can realistically expect to work in reality. But the EU is at its limits already.

But in theory, expanding the idea of "rule of law, instead law of the stronger" Hobbes outlines on the international scale is not a bad idea. German philosopher Immanuel Kant wrote around 1800 already his treatize "About Eternal Peace" where he outlines such an idea. It's just not feasible for the time being, because you cannot get democracies and autocracies to agree on the same authority, for good reasons.
 
As I said earlier, I'm not interested in Somalia. The people there have no respect for the rights of others or respect for other's property.


It's a backward society riddled with crime. I am advocating a civil society in which people respect others and their property.

That's because they have a weak government with low taxation, which is your ideal. Civil society only happens through the benefit of government laws.

Can you name a country that has less government and taxation than Somalia???
 
If all humans on this planet in all nations were ready for democracy/republicanism, believed in these values and supported such a government, why not? But we're not that far yet. Too many people don't believe in the values of freedom and democracy, and too many people resent each other because of nationalistic and/or religious prejudices.

For the time being, I believe nation-states, or maybe even multi-national alliances such as the EU (which are based on equal values) are the maximum we can realistically expect to work in reality. But the EU is at its limits already.

But in theory, expanding the idea of "rule of law, instead law of the stronger" Hobbes outlines on the international scale is not a bad idea. German philosopher Immanuel Kant wrote around 1800 already his treatize "About Eternal Peace" where he outlines such an idea. It's just not feasible for the time being, because you cannot get democracies and autocracies to agree on the same authority, for good reasons.
So for now, we live in a state of chaos, lacking one binding law for all and one binding power that enforces this law.

Personally, I find this state of affairs better than one single power that enforces one binding law on all the world's people.
 
That's because they have a weak government with low taxation, which is your ideal. Civil society only happens through the benefit of government laws.

I disagree on the causation. It is a corrupt, crime ridden society with no respect for property rights. The introduction of a government would not turn them into Sweden. They are what they are.
 
So for now, we live in a state of chaos, lacking one binding law for all and one binding power that enforces this law.

Within our states, we do not. On international scale, between the nation states, we more or less do.

I am glad the government protects me within my state, by laws, courts and police.

I'm not so glad nothing of that kind exists on international scale, because in theory, we are under the constant threat of foreign invasion.
 
I disagree on the causation. It is a corrupt, crime ridden society with no respect for property rights. The introduction of a government would not turn them into Sweden. They are what they are.


Where are the civil people in the world that could live in perfect harmony without the need for government?
 
Where are the civil people in the world that could live in perfect harmony without the need for government?

They exist in the mind of the libertarian. Not so much outside of it.
 
Where are the civil people in the world that could live in perfect harmony without the need for government?
No such thing. There will always be some who refuse to respect the rights of others. Because of them, people need to be able to self-organize in mutual defense.
 
No such thing. There will always be some who refuse to respect the rights of others. Because of them, people need to be able to self-organize in mutual defense.

That is exactly what we have done. Its called the United States of America.
 
No such thing. There will always be some who refuse to respect the rights of others. Because of them, people need to be able to self-organize in mutual defense.

In which country is this being done???
 
But in the USA and other socially liberal (with regards to welfare) countries, we are killing ourselves with social programs at the expense of those who are productive. This is only sustainable for a certain amount of time- that is, until taxation is heavy enough that the working can no longer afford to pay the bill. We are nearing that point right now. We have a population in which almost half is not paying anything in the way of federal income taxes, which is the largest chunk of tax monies that we bring into the federal revenues. We are aging, a higher percent of people are moving onto SS and Medicare, a huge number of people are moving into federally funded disability programs, where they will remain until they die, and now we are looking at a huge federal expenditure on health care that we can't afford.

When the government keeps taxing those who work, to pay for an ever-expanding number who don't, it is redistribution of wealth that will eventually bring us all down to poverty-level. Our manufacturing base has been diminishing, and our primary economic sector is now service-based.

Whatever you fund grows. Throw money into welfare, you get more people living on welfare. It doesn't lift them out of poverty, it creates more poverty-minded people. Fund women having illigitimate babies, and you get more illigitimate babies. Fund sickness and disability, and you get more sickness and disability. Whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not, we are creating more of the problems we have because we so willingly fund them. Most people are like water. They will take the path of least resistance and settle in where they know they can subsist, because it's easier that way. Life is hard, and when you let people believe that it's not, you are creating an enslavement-minded individual who will willingly let the government take from others to give to them. We are creating a terrible mind-set in the modern American these days, and we will pay dearly for it- all of us.
 
Lizzie, to add to what you just said, the progressive tax system has never proven itself able to support the welfare state.
 
That is exactly what we have done. Its called the United States of America.

Most of those on the far right today seem to think they are going to be able to convince seniors to take the hit for the last 30 years of spending as much on the military as the rest of the world combined, at the same time that revenues were reduced with the tax breaks for the rich.
 
Most of those on the far right today seem to think they are going to be able to convince seniors to take the hit for the last 30 years of spending as much on the military as the rest of the world combined, at the same time that revenues were reduced with the tax breaks for the rich.

Its not going to happen. ALEC will not get its way.
 
My point exactly!.........

Ah yes, the old "all the cool kids are doing it" argument.

Sorry but I don't base my ethical behavior on what all the cool kids are doing. My position is that it is unethical for one person to initiate aggression against another. Obviously you disagree. I'm still not going to initiate force against people, just because you think I should.
 
But in the USA and other socially liberal (with regards to welfare) countries, we are killing ourselves with social programs at the expense of those who are productive. This is only sustainable for a certain amount of time- that is, until taxation is heavy enough that the working can no longer afford to pay the bill. We are nearing that point right now. We have a population in which almost half is not paying anything in the way of federal income taxes, which is the largest chunk of tax monies that we bring into the federal revenues. We are aging, a higher percent of people are moving onto SS and Medicare, a huge number of people are moving into federally funded disability programs, where they will remain until they die, and now we are looking at a huge federal expenditure on health care that we can't afford.

When the government keeps taxing those who work, to pay for an ever-expanding number who don't, it is redistribution of wealth that will eventually bring us all down to poverty-level. Our manufacturing base has been diminishing, and our primary economic sector is now service-based.

Whatever you fund grows. Throw money into welfare, you get more people living on welfare. It doesn't lift them out of poverty, it creates more poverty-minded people. Fund women having illigitimate babies, and you get more illigitimate babies. Fund sickness and disability, and you get more sickness and disability. Whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not, we are creating more of the problems we have because we so willingly fund them. Most people are like water. They will take the path of least resistance and settle in where they know they can subsist, because it's easier that way. Life is hard, and when you let people believe that it's not, you are creating an enslavement-minded individual who will willingly let the government take from others to give to them. We are creating a terrible mind-set in the modern American these days, and we will pay dearly for it- all of us.

I don't know enough about the details of the American welfare systems, so I can't really comment on it. My impression based on what I see in Germany makes me think that abuse of welfare is a problem, so what you describe is one side of the problem.

On the other side, I believe that is just that: Abuse of a generally good system. Many people *want* to work, try their best to get a job, but there simply are no jobs for them, especially in the current situation. That especially concerns low-skilled and older people. They need support. (And that's not even mentioning people who really are incapable of working, like handicapped or ill people who simply cost more than they can possibly bring in on the free market.) I don't think these people in need should be punished for a few rotten apples abusing the system.

On the other side, I see there is a class of people which is very wealthy, but refuses to contribute its share. Not really in the productive sector, the middle to upper middle class of hard-working and responsible enterprisers, but in the financial sector. Thanks to 30 years of constant lobby work by the financial "industry", they have to pay fewer taxes than all others and the financial sector has been deregulated more and more. Part of the economic troubles we're in is because of this deregulation (other reasons include irresponsible fiscal policies and spending by the state).

And we see a degree of irresponsibility in the finance sector that is not just unfair towards the poor, but a slap in the face of free markets standards too: Ideally, on a free market, an enterpriser has the responsibility for his actions. When his company fails, he fails too and gets bankrupt. But in the financial sector, when some broker gambles away billions of euros/dollars which don't even belong to him, he gets fired in the worst case, but gets compensations of millions, more than many workers make in their whole life. Most of the time, they are not even held responsible personally. The market correction mechanism is void, because even losing is no incentive to do better work anymore.

And the money they are gambling away are often savings and pensions of hard working people who were told their money is safe and who cannot be expected to know much about the financial sector. All they know is their money is gone.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the finance sector is evil, or that that their work is meaningless or unncessary, I'm just saying they should contribute like everybody else does. A financial transaction tax was in the debate here, the German conservatives now support it too (Merkel's Christian Democrats), but their smaller junior coalition partner, the libertarian FDP, is strictly against it -- the lobby work is bearing its fruits. And guess what tax rate is in debate? 0.15%. Zero point one five percent. Tell that an average "plumber Joe" or even a middle class enterpriser running a supermarket, asking him how much he has to pay for taxes, and he'll break out in laughter.
 
And those that want to work or are actually working make up the majority of the poor. In return for their continuing efforts to conform we lump them in with the rest that are seen as losers and ridicule them daily, they're social pariahs. Yeah - that's incentive! Pay lousy wages, don't provide enough 40hr/wk jobs for all of us, then make fun of me when I can't get out of poverty.
 
But that's the job of government: Government has to provide it for everybody equally, rich as well as poor.

Because if hiring people to protect you was a private matter, those who are rich could hire the larger private army to force down those who are poor, who cannot afford paying a large private army or any army at all.

That's the idea behind the monopoly of force of government. But you are right, of course, that government can be corrupt. That doesn't mean, though, that privatizing security would be better. It would be "the law of the jungle" you mentioned.
You know, I think you might have convinced me that it could be government's legitimate role to provide defense services to everyone. I could envision and accept a government whose sole legitimate function was to provide for a military, peace officers, and courts, so that everyone was equally defended and had access to dispute resolution services. As long as the purpose of government was solely to provide this mutual defense, I think I'd support such a system. This way, everyone would pay the same fee for the same protection, and the rich could not hire the larger private army to force down those the poor.
 
On the other side, I see there is a class of people which is very wealthy, but refuses to contribute its share. Not really in the productive sector, the middle to upper middle class of hard-working and responsible enterprisers, but in the financial sector. Thanks to 30 years of constant lobby work by the financial "industry", they have to pay fewer taxes than all others and the financial sector has been deregulated more and more. Part of the economic troubles we're in is because of this deregulation (other reasons include irresponsible fiscal policies and spending by the state).

And we see a degree of irresponsibility in the finance sector that is not just unfair towards the poor, but a slap in the face of free markets standards too: Ideally, on a free market, an enterpriser has the responsibility for his actions. When his company fails, he fails too and gets bankrupt. But in the financial sector, when some broker gambles away billions of euros/dollars which don't even belong to him, he gets fired in the worst case, but gets compensations of millions, more than many workers make in their whole life. Most of the time, they are not even held responsible personally. The market correction mechanism is void, because even losing is no incentive to do better work anymore.

And the money they are gambling away are often savings and pensions of hard working people who were told their money is safe and who cannot be expected to know much about the financial sector. All they know is their money is gone.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the finance sector is evil, or that that their work is meaningless or unncessary, I'm just saying they should contribute like everybody else does. A financial transaction tax was in the debate here, the German conservatives now support it too (Merkel's Christian Democrats), but their smaller junior coalition partner, the libertarian FDP, is strictly against it -- the lobby work is bearing its fruits. And guess what tax rate is in debate? 0.15%. Zero point one five percent. Tell that an average "plumber Joe" or even a middle class enterpriser running a supermarket, asking him how much he has to pay for taxes, and he'll break out in laughter.

A financial transactions tax on investment purchases and sales of just one percent would be a good start here.
 
But in the USA and other socially liberal (with regards to welfare) countries, we are killing ourselves with social programs at the expense of those who are productive. This is only sustainable for a certain amount of time- that is, until taxation is heavy enough that the working can no longer afford to pay the bill. We are nearing that point right now.
How do you reconcile such claims with the simple facts that federal tax burdens are at 60-year lows and there is no such thing as a "social program" that costs half as much as military pay and retirement? Why aren't you whining about how we can't afford to pay the bill for all these frilly benefits to all these soldier-boys?

We have a population in which almost half is not paying anything in the way of federal income taxes, which is the largest chunk of tax monies that we bring into the federal revenues.
There are two problems here. First, the half you are talking about doesn't have enough income to pay any federal income taxes anymore, and second, the half you aren't talking about has plenty of income alright, but still doesn't pay enough federal income taxes. Bush sent them all off on a tax holiday, and now they don't want to come back.

We are aging, a higher percent of people are moving onto SS and Medicare, a huge number of people are moving into federally funded disability programs, where they will remain until they die, and now we are looking at a huge federal expenditure on health care that we can't afford.
The huge expenditure on health care that we couldn't have afforded was the one looming in the event that we DIDN'T enact HCR. PPACA will not be a cure-all by any means, but it is a major step in the right driection. SS is meanwhile perfectly well funded for decades even if we do nothing at all to reinforce it. Medicare will start receiving a cash infusion from the 3.8% surtax on unearned income that goes into effect in 2013. That puts it on solid ground through the mid-2020's at least, but it will need further work. It's principal problem of course is the ass-backward for-profit, fee-for-service, private-sector health care system that it is plugged into.

When the government keeps taxing those who work, to pay for an ever-expanding number who don't, it is redistribution of wealth that will eventually bring us all down to poverty-level.
So stop redistributing wealth to the wealthy. Did you see soaring poverty rates during the 1990's? Were there somehow no rich people at that time?

Our manufacturing base has been diminishing...
LOL! We are by quite a large margin the largest manufacturing economy in the world. What you are whining over this time is that the number of manufacturing JOBS has been declining, and so it has. In fact it has declined in ALL of the top twelve manufacturing economies since the 1990's, and US losses are only about average for the group. Consider poor China. They've lost more than 13 million manufacturing jobs in that time. That's more than the total number that the US has.

...and our primary economic sector is now service-based.
So? Not much more than a hundred years ago, we went from being an agricultural to an industrial economy. Some people whined about that as well.

Whatever you fund grows. Throw money into welfare, you get more people living on welfare.
False premise. Also irrational and counter-factual. Thanks largely to the War on Poverty for instance, poverty rates were effectivley cut in half during the 1960's. Did you take that into account? How about its tendency to climb during Republican administrations and fall during Democratic administrations ever since? Some that of course may well be due just to the general economic ineptitude of Republicans, but still.

It doesn't lift them out of poverty, it creates more poverty-minded people. Fund women having illigitimate babies, and you get more illigitimate babies. Fund sickness and disability, and you get more sickness and disability.
Yes, it's just happeneing left and right -- people infecting themselves, poking their own eyes out, cutting off their own limbs with a chainsaw. Do you expect to be taken seriously with brfainless notions like these? (What happened when we funded "abstinence only" sex ed, by the way? Huge outbreak of abstinence?)

Whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not, we are creating more of the problems we have because we so willingly fund them. Most people are like water. They will take the path of least resistance and settle in where they know they can subsist, because it's easier that way.
Speak for yourself, dear, and easier than what? Ever tried living at a susbsistence level? Nobody likes it. We have more people on assistance today because of the economic collapse engineered by a bunch of dingbat Republicans. Had you heard of it? It was in all the papers. And can you believe it, the sponsors of it now try to scapegoat the victims! What a bunch of low-lifes! And of course, if you are able-bodied and not caring for a dependent full-time, there are typically work requirements if you want to continue receiving benefits. Doesn't sound like you've bothered to look into any of that either.

Life is hard, and when you let people believe that it's not, you are creating an enslavement-minded individual who will willingly let the government take from others to give to them. We are creating a terrible mind-set in the modern American these days, and we will pay dearly for it- all of us.
That's pure unadulterated right-wing crapola. Why don't you tell us again about all those WMD in Iraq?
 
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