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which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?

which best describes your view of the inheritance tax?


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That's one way of looking at it.

The way I look at it, is that a progressive tax system (authorized under our rule of law) was made less progressive over the last 30 years.
Some argue that restoring the progressiveness that was cut away over the last 30 years is somehow socialist.

I maintain that is absurd.

You are correct on both counts. We are fast losing progressivity in taxation due to many factors
1- capital gains discriminatory preferences
2- protections for millions in inheritance transfers
3- off shore accounts
4- accounting gimmicks

And it is indeed absurd.
 
I see you ignored me on providing proof of your earlier claim of the purpose of society.

If so, it's very significantly because of just the sort of lame-brained laissez-faire free-market economics that various pseudo-rich people and assorted FOX News watchers tend mindlessly to exalt and venerate.

Lol, what? In order for something to be causing a harm or a gain it has to be practiced. Nice try, but you fail.

That's true for most people. Value-added in the public sector that's made available to everybody else free of charge.

Adding value for nothing is not adding potential and when looking at government additions to the market they have no real potential of growth and when looking at benefits from government given to people that they didn't pay for the potential of those people is lowered not boosted.

A progressive tax system takes relatively LESS from the poor. They are therefore relatively MORE able to pay for their own stuff. They'd do even better at it if a certain stripe didn't go around trying to undercut their incomes and opportunties all the time.

That is hack economics that I tire of. Fist, the progressive tax system does not give more potential to the market by simply giving poor people more money while taking more from the top to cover the loses and give benefits to those people. The net benefit is negative not positive. Second, the progressive tax system by design limits growth of the economy and lowers potential of the poor regardless of them getting taxed less than the rich or even getting more back in return from the government. Your hack economics are idiotic.
 
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from what source did you get this from. I deny that. the main functions of society are protection from external threats and creating a market system
Protection from external threats is likely to be BOTH risk-sharing and redistribution of income. Any actual foreign assault will be focussed on a particular area, yet those from other areas will respond as well. And we won't be sending our sick and elderly out there to man the battle lines. We will send the young, the strong, and the brave. They will make the sacrifices, the rest of us will just benefit from them.

Supporting some form of economic system is typical of a society. It need not however be a market system.
 
More speculation on your part.
Which part was speculation, what is says in Article I-Section 8, or that the preponderance of the population was illiterate? Keep in mind that two-thirds of the non-indigenous US population as of July 4, 1776, had arrived in the colonies in a condition of servitude.
 
Those below the poverty level wouldn't be paying taxes, any more than they are currently. Right now, people making less than $50,000 (approximately) have zero liability. And the fact is, any taxes the wealthy pay will always come out of their plenty, while the poor struggle. You haven't noticed anything new at all.
Really? Let's take a closer look at that. We'll assume your "approximately" is really $40k, which 20% ($10k) less than you quoted. AND let's assume it's "married plus two kids" family. Even at that level, and yes I included an EIC of $1267, that still leaves $1800+ owed in taxes to the Fed.

Would you care to guess what happens when we increase that income to $50k and with no kids? Now you're up to almost double that amount, $3600 in taxes.

You must be very rich to think that $1800, let alone $3600, is ZERO. I don't consider that kind of money to be pocket change and I suspect few others do, either.
 
and that is one of the major reasons why this country is going down the toilet. representation without taxation-people who are net tax consumers have absolutely no incentive to either cut spending or hold down taxes on those of us who actually do pay
It's a complete load of crap no matter how many times or ways you try to repeat it. If you want low-income people to pay more income tax, arrange for them to have more income. In the meantime, suggestions that the extremely downscale somehow have a stranglehold on the House and a veto-proof majority in the Senate are merely evidence of how extremely loose some screws have gotten around here.
 
every couple of months some newbie comes along and makes that claim and then one of the mods schools him or her on their error. yet they never seem to learn from their mistakes
And every forum has its phonies and poseurs. To borrow a little from another poster, what you don't say and the way you don't say it starts to paint a profile after a while.
 
Neither one requires a substantive response; they're incandescently inane. Post roads do not show "wealth redistribution" as a constitutional function of government...
The claim actually made earlier was that there was nothing in the Constitution calling for redistribution of wealth. Post offices and post roads were not paid for exclusively by the wealthy and well-educated, but it was only they who benefitted from them. If that does not fit your definition of redistribution of income, you have a flawed definition.

...and society's two functions are not "risk-sharing" and "wealth redistribution."
I'm sorry to hear that your education ended short of your having had a chance to look into the matter. That event has left you able to speak only on the basis of nothing.

Seeing as you made these claims, it would be nice if you provided something to back them up. I know they're superlatively silly arguments, but why not give it a shot? You know, documentation, history, that sort of thing.
I'll tell you what. Take a tour through what we know of the functioning of even the earliest prehistorical societies, communes, and tribes. Investigate the social constructs of primitive and remote peoples still existing in the world today. Let me know when you find a group that is NOT founded on the cornerstones of risk-sharing and redistribution of wealth.
 
Are you seriously defending this System? The tax system doesn't need to be complex.
It doesn't need to be complex to accommodate you. More people than you live here. Find a page in the tax code that does not now and never has applied to any of them.

Those below the poverty level wouldn't be paying taxes, any more than they are currently. Right now, people making less than $50,000 (approximately) have zero liability. And the fact is, any taxes the wealthy pay will always come out of their plenty, while the poor struggle. You haven't noticed anything new at all.
Right, I gather that you haven't understood the inappropriateness of the regime you suggested for some period of time. I would suggest spending some time with some discussions of marginal utility theory and seeing if that heps you come to a better understanding of the situation.
 
I've said before that I think the simplest solution would be for the feds to issue 50 tax bills, one to each state. Each state gets billed for their share (apportioned by population) of the federal tax burden. Done. No IRS, no tax law, no deductions. Just 50 tax bills.

Deck chairs on the Titanic.
In what respect?

Plus most state governments do not have the cushion of deficit-financing. The federal government (obviously) does.
You are correct. States do not have monetary sovereignty. The US does. Not sure why you bring this up though. I'm not suggesting that the states pay their tax bills with funny money. They would pay their tax bills with real dollars out of their treasuries, just as individual citizens do now.

All I'm suggesting is that it would simplify the federal tax code to eliminate personal income taxes and substitute 50 tax bills to the states.
 
I've said before that I think the simplest solution would be for the feds to issue 50 tax bills, one to each state. Each state gets billed for their share (apportioned by population) of the federal tax burden. Done. No IRS, no tax law, no deductions. Just 50 tax bills.
Great. So the people in CA, FL, and TX with less to pay could actually pay less and the people in KS, NE, and IA with less to pay are just stuck. That's a good way to push farming into the hands of mega-agro even quicker than it's going now. You'll kill every small business in every state that isn't swimming in $$$ or you'll just kill the whole state. Well, I guess in 50 years or so it'll all average out - you hope.
 
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On a much lighter note ... if I may..:)

as somebody once said: :mrgreen:


" If you can pay taxes to the country while living, you can pay after you die. You should be so used to paying taxes that it would almost be a second nature anyway"
 
I see you ignored me on providing proof of your earlier claim of the purpose of society.
You presume much too much in terms of the compelling nature of your posts. One phony pseudo-libertarian isn't much different from the next. Mostly a bunch of former neocons trying to pretend they were never Bush-boosters.

Lol, what? In order for something to be causing a harm or a gain it has to be practiced. Nice try, but you fail.
You thought "Markets are wise enough to regulate themselves" was some sort of socialist battle cry?

Adding value for nothing is not adding potential and when looking at government additions to the market they have no real potential of growth and when looking at benefits from government given to people that they didn't pay for the potential of those people is lowered not boosted.
That might have been more impressive had it been written in English.

That is hack economics that I tire of. Fist, the progressive tax system does not give more potential to the market by simply giving poor people more money while taking more from the top...
Yes, it does. Poor people tend to spend their money quickly and they tend to spend it by giving it to others who spend it quickly. The more times a dollar turns over per unit of time, the greater aggregate demand will be and the more jobs will be present in the economy. Rich people tend to spend another dollar when they get around to it. They have no pressing needs or wants, and in the end, they are just as likely to take that dollar out of the real economy altogether and stick it in the financial economy where it will produce no new demand and no additional jobs. These few sentences are why the Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich performed so poorly while the tax cuts in the stimulus bill targeting the middle-class and down performed so well.

Second, the progressive tax system by design limits growth of the economy and lowers potential of the poor regardless of them getting taxed less than the rich or even getting more back in return from the government.
Want to outline a mechanism by which this happens? I certainly don't think you can.

Your hack economics are idiotic.
Actually, I'm at the back end of a very well-compensated 40-year career as an economist. This after completing training in that very field at some of our most well-known and selective institutions of higher learning. I suspect that you would be lucky to qualify as an acorn in comparison to my oak, but go ahead and try swimming against the tide anyway.
 
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psychobabble. right now more people are net takers than producers when it comes to the government. More people are getting more from the federal government than they pay in taxes. And the main issue you ignore (because it is uncomfortable to your welfare-socialist yearnings) is that what people like me have problems with is not that the poor don't pay enough taxes but they demand stuff they are unwilling or unable to pay for and this tax scheme encourages that.

Well, a lot of Americans in the unskilled and blue collar labor force are demanding a job with a decent wage , decent wage earners pay taxes how is that unfair?:peace
 
It is-cite me the law review article that claims such a phrase is a code for income redistribution

Site me an article that says only some of the people and not WE THE PEOPLE??

Really???

Is greed so important to you you would turn your back on what America stands for?:peace
 
It's a complete load of crap no matter how many times or ways you try to repeat it. If you want low-income people to pay more income tax, arrange for them to have more income. In the meantime, suggestions that the extremely downscale somehow have a stranglehold on the House and a veto-proof majority in the Senate are merely evidence of how extremely loose some screws have gotten around here.
as usual you miss the obvious point. The obvious point being if we had a proper tax system the poor would not be demanding more and more government spending because they would pay more if the people they elected engaged in more and more government handouts.

that's the point you ignore. I don't necessarily want the poor to pay more taxes. I want a tax system that provides a rather strong incentive for the masses to be adverse to excess government spending and if the poor really want the rich to pay more, they face the same percentage increase.

Right now those who are suckling on the public tit have no incentive to demand less government or lower taxes on other people but rather the opposite

which is what your agenda desires
 
Well, a lot of Americans in the unskilled and blue collar labor force are demanding a job with a decent wage , decent wage earners pay taxes how is that unfair?:peace

then I suggest they have the skills that garner such wages for them
 
And every forum has its phonies and poseurs. To borrow a little from another poster, what you don't say and the way you don't say it starts to paint a profile after a while.

and every forum have people who are consistently wrong and don't learn from their errors
 
Site me an article that says only some of the people and not WE THE PEOPLE??

Really???

Is greed so important to you you would turn your back on what America stands for?:peace

You have engaged in pure idiocy and specious speculation by claiming that 'we the people' is a foundation for income redistribution
 
In what respect?
In the respect that you don't actually solve anything. You merely play hot-potato and hand the situation off to the states. As if they are equipped to handle it. States will have to double and triple their revenues in order to raise the funds necessary to pass back to the feds. As state income tax structures are much more regressive that the current federal structure, rates will have to go even higher than that, or they will need to be made just as progressive. Additionally, you risk creating major diseconomies of scale.

You are correct. States do not have monetary sovereignty. The US does. Not sure why you bring this up though.
I bring it up because the feds can spend money they don't actually have. States cannot. If the state economy suffers a bit of a downturn, remission of a fixed tax bill to the feds may leave them with insufficient funds to operate state government. Your new regime will make planning a nightmare for state legislatures that draft 2-year budgets.

I'm not suggesting that the states pay their tax bills with funny money. They would pay their tax bills with real dollars out of their treasuries, just as individual citizens do now.
States have virtually no money above and beyond their various tax revenues. They are not like households.
 
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My choice would be to tax only that amount RECEIVED if it exceeds $5 Million per person, then at capital gains tax rate.
Spouse pays nothing as the estate is intact until he or she dies.
THEN, divvy it up evenly among kids, grandkids, close family members, etc. People like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet would have some problems with this, but the rest of us won't.
 
The claim actually made earlier was that there was nothing in the Constitution calling for redistribution of wealth. Post offices and post roads were not paid for exclusively by the wealthy and well-educated, but it was only they who benefitted from them. If that does not fit your definition of redistribution of income, you have a flawed definition.

Holy ****; that's even MORE incandescently inane. Stop. Stop now before you reach the stupidity event horizon. You cannot possibly believe what you're posting.


I'm sorry to hear that your education ended short of your having had a chance to look into the matter. That event has left you able to speak only on the basis of nothing.


I'll tell you what. Take a tour through what we know of the functioning of even the earliest prehistorical societies, communes, and tribes. Investigate the social constructs of primitive and remote peoples still existing in the world today. Let me know when you find a group that is NOT founded on the cornerstones of risk-sharing and redistribution of wealth.

Oh, I see. Instead of actually presenting a case, you simply say "look it up." Well, that's YOUR job.

Speaking of Internet poseurs . . .
 
You presume much too much in terms of the compelling nature of your posts. One phony pseudo-libertarian isn't much different from the next. Mostly a bunch of former neocons trying to pretend they were never Bush-boosters.

Well there is another thing you have to prove. I was always a libertarian. The only view that I really changed as I got older was on abortion. The rest of it was as it is now.


You thought "Markets are wise enough to regulate themselves" was some sort of socialist battle cry?

I thought nothing of the sort, thank you. I have put out before in other threads what I think of regulation and how to resolve the issues that are present in the current avenue being done to that end.

That might have been more impressive had it been written in English.

It's really not my fault you can't read.

Yes, it does. Poor people tend to spend their money quickly and they tend to spend it by giving it to others who spend it quickly.

Their encouragement for advancement their ability to gain future earnings from that dollar are limited and compared to the outlook of when the higher earners spend on the economy as a whole the return on taxing them less while giving them free things does not counter the effects of higher taxes on the higher ends.

The more times a dollar turns over per unit of time, the greater aggregate demand will be and the more jobs will be present in the economy.

Not my point and that depends greatly on variables I am mentioning.

Rich people tend to spend another dollar when they get around to it. They have no pressing needs or wants, and in the end, they are just as likely to take that dollar out of the real economy altogether and stick it in the financial economy where it will produce no new demand and no additional jobs.

That is complete horse****. Rich people spend great deals of money if they are producers or people that have gained their wealth through other avenues. This spending does create jobs fair easier than when poor people spend money. You are forgetting that people don't just buy when they need, they buy when they want, and in essence the more people earn the more they not only spend but need to maintain their lifestyle.

These few sentences are why the Bush Tax Cuts for the Rich performed so poorly while the tax cuts in the stimulus bill targeting the middle-class and down performed so well.

Lol, what? Considering that all the stimuluses has lower returns than otherwise would be noted without it and considering that the bush tax cuts did what they were intended to do what you said is trash.


Want to outline a mechanism by which this happens? I certainly don't think you can
.

Taxes takes wealth out of the economy and what it gives back is less than the wealth took out. Considering that wealth it takes out of the economy is on the top that includes a great deal of small businesses it hardly matters if you give more to the poor as the return for investment is not only hurt from the taxes themselves but how they are dealt out.

As for the later part, motivation for labor and advancement in general is triggered from need of labor and overall want to move forward. Considered that many of these people are already not motivated(keep in mind I didn't say majority here) giving them what they need from the start not only stops them from wanting advancement or discovering a want for advancement but needing advancement. This is basic human nature and works for rich or poor.

Actually, I'm at the back end of a very well-compensated 40-year career as an economist. This after completing training in that very field at some of our most well-known and selective institutions of higher learning. I suspect that you would be lucky to qualify as an acorn in comparison to my oak, but go ahead and try swimming against the tide anyway.

I suspect I can keep up with you and I suspect it hasn't done you any good. Many economist believe in trash and you appear to be either one of them or someone that believes in their trash.
 
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that is how it should be. If I don't want to live in a state where gays cannot marry, I can move. If I don't want to live in a state where honest people cannot own machine guns or use medicinal marijuana I could move. If my state became a paradise for parasites so that my state filled up with those suckling on the public teat thereby increasing my taxes, net tax payers could move and that would sort of take care of the problem. Liberals hate that idea

These rich couldn't leave America though,I don't think other countries would be so generous with bailouts and loans to rich corporations.:peace
 
You have engaged in pure idiocy and specious speculation by claiming that 'we the people' is a foundation for income redistribution


No sir I have not stated that.

"WE THE PEOPLE" is not a foundation for income redistribution.

"WE THE PEOPLE" is a foundation of America the nation.

However where does we the people stop?
Does it stop at income redistributation?
Let somebody besides the rich pay?

Does it stop at military volunteers who fight and die for this nation?
Let somebody besides the poor and middle class go?

Does it stop at the judicial system.?
Don"t waste tax payers money on trials if they get caught of any crime take them out back put two bullets in their head and cremate what body parts you can't use.

So where does WE THE PEOPLE stop being "WE THE PEOPLE"?:peace
 
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