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Should “equal opportunity” mean free college?

Should “equal opportunity” = free (gov funded) college to those who can complete it?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 29.5%

  • No

    Votes: 31 70.5%
  • Total voters
    44
lizzie said:
What we need is some real psychologists who can diagnose all of society's ills, then get those who need it to seek psychiatric care. :mrgreen:
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What we need here is a bona-fide miracle man....the first part is easy, the second part is nearly impossible.
 
People should be paid to go to college, how much pay and how much college should be dependent on the amount of service given to the nation in return.
 
For anyone interested:

During the 2006-07 academic year, more than $130 billion in financial aid was distributed to undergraduate and graduate students in the form of grants from all sources and federal loans, work-study, and tax credits and deductions. In addition, these students borrowed more than $18 billion from state and private sources to help finance their education.
• Total student aid increased by about 82 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars over the decade from 1996-97 to 2006-07. Aid to undergraduate and graduate students increased at similar rates.
• Loans have declined from 76 percent to 69 percent of total federal aid over the decade, as education tax credits and deductions have come to constitute 7 percent of federal aid to students.
• The increase in grant dollars between 1996-97 and 2006-07 covered an average of about a third of the increase in private college tuition and fees and half of the increase in average public four-year college tuition and fees. The increase in total aid, including both grant aid from all sources and federal loans, covered about two-thirds of the increase in tuition and fees at private four-year colleges and almost all of the increase in tuition and fees (but none of the additional increase in costs of attendance) at public four-year institutions.
Grant Aid
Grant aid from all sources averaged $4,648 per full-time equivalent (FTE) student—$4,218 per undergraduate (90 percent of all FTE students) and $8,343 per graduate student (10 percent of all FTE students).
• Total grant dollars to undergraduates increased by 7 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars between 2005-06 and 2006-07, and grant dollars to graduate students increased slightly more. Grant aid per student increased by 4 percent over the same period.
• The number of Pell Grant recipients increased by 41 percent, from 3.7 million to 5.2 million, over the decade from 1996-97 to 2006-07, after growing 38 percent the preceding decade.
• In 2005, 36 percent of all Pell Grant recipients were age 26 or older and 59 percent were independent of their parents. Among dependent Pell Grant recipients, two-thirds came from families with incomes below $30,000.
• Total Pell Grant expenditures, which rose by 73 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars over the decade from 1996-97 to 2006-07, declined in real terms for the second year in a row in 2006-07, by $141 million in 2006 dollars. The highest annual expenditures were in 2004-05, when total Pell Grants equaled $14 billion in 2006 dollars.
• The average Pell Grant per recipient, $2,494 in 2006-07, was 23 percent higher in inflation-adjusted dollars than it had been a decade earlier, but 5.3 percent lower than it was in 2001-02.
• The percentage of tuition and fees and room and board at the average public four-year college covered by the maximum Pell Grant declined from 35 percent in 1996-97 and 42 percent in 2001-02 to 32 percent in 2006-07. The amount covered in 1986-87
During the 2006-07 academic year, more than $130 billion in financial aid was distributed to undergraduate and graduate students in the form of grants from all sources and federal loans, work-study, and tax credits and deductions. In addition, these students borrowed more than $18 billion from state and private sources to help finance their education.
• Total student aid increased by about 82 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars over the decade from 1996-97 to 2006-07. Aid to undergraduate and graduate students increased at similar rates.
• Loans have declined from 76 percent to 69 percent of total federal aid over the decade, as education tax credits and deductions have come to constitute 7 percent of federal aid to students.
• The increase in grant dollars between 1996-97 and 2006-07 covered an average of about a third of the increase in private college tuition and fees and half of the increase in average public four-year college tuition and fees. The increase in total aid, including both grant aid from all sources and federal loans, covered about two-thirds of the increase in tuition and fees at private four-year colleges and almost all of the increase in tuition and fees (but none of the additional increase in costs of attendance) at public four-year institutions.
Grant Aid
Grant aid from all sources averaged $4,648 per full-time equivalent (FTE) student—$4,218 per undergraduate (90 percent of all FTE students) and $8,343 per graduate student (10 percent of all FTE students).
• Total grant dollars to undergraduates increased by 7 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars between 2005-06 and 2006-07, and grant dollars to graduate students increased slightly more. Grant aid per student increased by 4 percent over the same period.
• The number of Pell Grant recipients increased by 41 percent, from 3.7 million to 5.2 million, over the decade from 1996-97 to 2006-07, after growing 38 percent the preceding decade.
• In 2005, 36 percent of all Pell Grant recipients were age 26 or older and 59 percent were independent of their parents. Among dependent Pell Grant recipients, two-thirds came from families with incomes below $30,000.
• Total Pell Grant expenditures, which rose by 73 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars over the decade from 1996-97 to 2006-07, declined in real terms for the second year in a row in 2006-07, by $141 million in 2006 dollars. The highest annual expenditures were in 2004-05, when total Pell Grants equaled $14 billion in 2006 dollars.
• The average Pell Grant per recipient, $2,494 in 2006-07, was 23 percent higher in inflation-adjusted dollars than it had been a decade earlier, but 5.3 percent lower than it was in 2001-02.
• The percentage of tuition and fees and room and board at the average public four-year college covered by the maximum Pell Grant declined from 35 percent in 1996-97 and 42 percent in 2001-02 to 32 percent in 2006-07. The amount covered in 1986-87
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source: collegeboard.org (pdf)
 
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I don't think there's any doubt by people even remotely in the know that there's money to be had for college if you really want it.

The people who say "college is too expensive" or "I can't afford it" are the people who don't look seriously into it, or people who equate sheepskins to elitism or snobbery. It gives them something to discuss with the deli or electronics department at Wal-mart.
 
Gipper said:
I don't think there's any doubt by people even remotely in the know that there's money to be had for college if you really want it.

The people who say "college is too expensive" or "I can't afford it" are the people who don't look seriously into it, or people who equate sheepskins to elitism or snobbery. It gives them something to discuss with the deli or electronics department at Wal-mart.
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go back to 1964, my senior year in High School....IIRC, there was precious little college aid available to the poor. I wasn't eligible for any scholarships, my parents didn't care, likewise my teachers and school counselor didn't know I existed....
the military was my only option, at that time it was either join and have SOME choice, or be drafted and have no choice....
Later generations have had it easy.....no draft, pell grants, student loan programs.....to have it this easy and not take advantage of it is stupid.
After serving in the Navy, I had the GI Bill, but I also had job and family responsibilities. I did 8 years of night classes, half time on the GI bill.
For those in HS today, try and get into college while still young. It makes life easier in the long run...
 
Obviously what I said is inapplicable 50 years ago, but there is a huge movement of kids today who say it and are dead wrong. Back before the 80s, college was mostly for rich folks who were going to party for 4 years before being nepotized into some position of power. Today is not the same.
 
Gipper said:
Obviously what I said is inapplicable 50 years ago, but there is a huge movement of kids today who say it and are dead wrong. Back before the 80s, college was mostly for rich folks who were going to party for 4 years before being nepotized into some position of power. Today is not the same.
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Twice I have had to practically bite my tongue while hearing people like the rich folks you describe tell me that if people only did what they did, they could be just as successful. One of those times we were in mixed company, so I kept quiet. The other time I was able to tell him that he probably would be in the same situation I was, or lower, given the same starting point I had.
But, long story short, there is usually a way to get a good paying job if you actually make the effort required. College is nice, trade schools can be just as nice, even self study can work. Even OJT can work, if you just make the effort. and military tech schools are top notch....
 
Oh yeah. If you have on your resume that you graduated from, say, the Naval Academy's university in Annapolis, you're in damn good shape. It's one of the most respected degrees in the nation.

Of course, it's not my business degree from the Ross school at U of M. I'd take it over a heap of Harvard MBAs trying to tell me the way to go.
 
Sad that so many people said no to gov. funded college to those who can handle the coursework. Other countries do it... I wonder why we are so closed minded? Education really can have a profound impact on a person. Just think of all the informed voters and citizens if it were done properly!
 
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