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Are pro-2nd Amendment?

Are pro-2nd Amendment?


  • Total voters
    69
Yes. If you were not, you're against one of the most fundamental civil liberties the founding fathers established for the citizens of the U.S.

Welcome to the board. Out of curiosity, are you actually a member of Delta Force?
 
Thank you, and no. I'm an ROTC cadet actually. But I have completed Airborne and Air assault school, and will Attend Pathfinder school in the summer. Maybe someday I will be. :)
 
Funny you should say that because I like the Glock 19. I've owned the ever reliable wheel gun S&W .38 Special snub and a lovely .380 Bersa Thunder. I ask my gun friend what's the purpose of higher power caliber and what's effective and he explained things like static shock, amount of damage and blood loss (trauma force).
Your buddy is exactly right on the caliber side, another advantage is that it transfers most of it's force at impact so if a shot goes errant it is less likely to cause collateral damage through a wall or other object as a rule, of course that depends on the muzzle velocity of the round. I actually like the Glocks quite a bit, my problem is that I'm a stocky guy and thus tend to bump into things quite a bit, the last thing I need is an accidental arm because I hit a table or wall etc. It's a good function for a duty weapon however due to the need for quick arming if ambushed or other speed requirements, but for me it's a good way to get hurt. My own firearm, is a .40 cal. Baby Eagle, it's got a slide safety which I like because my thumb is within the perimeter if god forbid I should ever be forced to use it.
Placement and accuracy of course are preferable but he told me in real world situations targets are moving, behind cover, at distances and often in low light.
Absolutely, as well it's not target shooting and your own adrenaline is at play as well, this makes it even more difficult to place a shot. For that reason for firearms training most LEOs and military are trained to stop by shooting center mass(biggest target).
He said most popular calibers are above .32 because of these reasons and showed me a demonstration of an 8lb roast being shot by different calibers. Everything above .22 put nice holes in the meat but when it was hit by the .357mag it was split in two, then when the .44mag hit the thing jumped off the table and was shredded beef. He's fired a .454 Casull, .50 Desert Eagle, 500 S&W Magnum and Colt 45-70 Peacemaker. These things feel like 8lb shotputs in your hand and are hard to hold level without shaking. He told me recoil, weight and concealment are reasons the big guns aren't as practical.
I like heavy guns because they don't recoil as much, if I would ever need a second shot I'm not exposed due to ride up, heavy isn't necessarily the caliber size, and your friend is exactly right, big guns are more for show than defense(as a rule) because for example; the D.E. .50 will put your arms over your head if you don't have a handle on it and even with the best stance you have to re-align the shot, that will get you killed if the attacker takes the initiative of firing at will. The big guns are the best though if you hit, it will stop most attackers, the worst to get shot with........small load .22, it will bounce around in the cavity it hits(Skull, chest, groin(ouch)) and tumble around tearing soft tissue, it's one of those "hope it kills you" rounds because surviving will hurt like hell.
Then he went into barrel length, accuracy and all kind of other variables. I ask why did cops switch from the .9mm's to the .40cal and he said for stopping power. He said even though a .9mm w/ 5-6" barrels and hotloads of +P+ to +P rounds can drop a drug maniac it takes a shorter barrel and lighter piece in the .40 S&W to equal. He said now the .357 Sig is getting some attention and I always get an education from him. He told me his Browning Hi Power was Belgium made pre some year, not the Hungarian FEG.
I personally don't trust my life to a 9mm, it's a high velocity round which means it transfers little to no force using a typical ball/parabellum round, hollow points do fix that problem because of mushrooming/fragmentation upon impact, but then again my "range rounds" will accomplish the same thing, then if I do go hollow the advantage is magnified. It's really all about comfort though.
Anyway, I can see the danger in mishandling dangerous weapons and all activities come with inherent risks. There's too much political correctness involved in law making now days and less common sense
. Anything can be misused and as to political correctmess, there was a program years ago that addressed darwinism and man. It was hilarious and sad at the same time, the host basically pointed out that we protect the stupid using law and as a result they breed and we continue to multiply stupid. (I am paraphrasing but that was his basic drift)
 
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Thank you, and no. I'm an ROTC cadet actually. But I have completed Airborne and Air assault school, and will Attend Pathfinder school in the summer. Maybe someday I will be. :)
Good luck. Hope you attain your goals, but if you go SF you will be asked to do some very dangerous missions so be safe.
 
You know your stuff LMR and I've heard from ER nurses that the .22 can cause terrible damage ricocheting off bones. I always wondered why assassins like it for up close and silenced? Bad thing about the old wheel gun it does have jump in it but is reliable, concealable, lightweight and fairly accurate. The .40 Sig Sauer sells like crazy at gun stores.

I think if you're going to have opponents on gun issues they should have some knowledge and not a bunch of extreme pacifists whose closest experience with a firearm is from entertainment.

I've always thought this Baretta was sexy..


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Good luck. Hope you attain your goals, but if you go SF you will be asked to do some very dangerous missions so be safe.

Yep, My nephew is a captain in the SF in Afghanistan running a camp. He said his two combat tours in the Rangers was actually more dangerous since that was out in the open heavy contact combat but then again people like him tend to downplay stuff
 
You know your stuff LMR and I've heard from ER nurses that the .22 can cause terrible damage ricocheting off bones. I always wondered why assassins like it for up close and silenced? Bad thing about the old wheel gun it does have jump in it but is reliable, concealable, lightweight and fairly accurate. The .40 Sig Sauer sells like crazy at gun stores.

I think if you're going to have opponents on gun issues they should have some knowledge and not a bunch of extreme pacifists whose closest experience with a firearm is from entertainment.

I've always thought this Baretta was sexy..


View attachment 67120858
I own almost every variation of the 92 from the basic combat 92FS (M9) to the stainless to the compact to the Brigadier to the ELITE II and some of the gulf war, navy, army marine specials

but by the the best (and a I have few) is these-they made 2000 in honor of Beretta's 500 years in business


all stainless steel-heavy heavy gun, carbon grips, single action only

every image I try to load gets invalid url so try this


Beretta Web - Billennium
 
I don't like the 92, for a few reasons. I've worked with it at armorer level and fired it plenty.
 
I live in Illinois and its such a police state. It's the only state where you can't carry a concealed weapon. You can in all other states.
 
I live in Illinois and its such a police state. It's the only state where you can't carry a concealed weapon. You can in all other states.

with so many criminals in public office, they want to create a safer work environment for their fellow skels
 
Yep, My nephew is a captain in the SF in Afghanistan running a camp. He said his two combat tours in the Rangers was actually more dangerous since that was out in the open heavy contact combat but then again people like him tend to downplay stuff
I was processing this for a while. It seems that SF has more dangerous missions than the Rangers, however they have a tactical advantage as they are covert and thus they get intel on troop movements, positioning, armaments, and their entry points. The Rangers however tend to "hold position" if I remember correctly, this can be dangerous in that the enemy will obviously have the chance to get a lot of "run and gun" cheap shots, while they won't necessarily make a dent in the position they will take lives along the way, it's kind of a bad luck lottery.
 
I was processing this for a while. It seems that SF has more dangerous missions than the Rangers, however they have a tactical advantage as they are covert and thus they get intel on troop movements, positioning, armaments, and their entry points. The Rangers however tend to "hold position" if I remember correctly, this can be dangerous in that the enemy will obviously have the chance to get a lot of "run and gun" cheap shots, while they won't necessarily make a dent in the position they will take lives along the way, it's kind of a bad luck lottery.

SF are force multipliers too right? They work with locals and teach them things? I would think that that means that they do opperate from secure loations? Not to mention I would think training and experience are huge with them as well (not taking danger away just saying that they know the deal).
 
SF are force multipliers too right? They work with locals and teach them things? I would think that that means that they do opperate from secure loations? Not to mention I would think training and experience are huge with them as well (not taking danger away just saying that they know the deal).
Couldn't guess really. I wasn't in the service so the only things I get are what friends and relatives tell me, that sounds about right.
 
I own almost every variation of the 92 from the basic combat 92FS (M9) to the stainless to the compact to the Brigadier to the ELITE II and some of the gulf war, navy, army marine specials

but by the the best (and a I have few) is these-they made 2000 in honor of Beretta's 500 years in business


all stainless steel-heavy heavy gun, carbon grips, single action only

every image I try to load gets invalid url so try this


Beretta Web - Billennium

ecofarm doesn't like the model and I've heard some say they love them others agree with him. I know they sure sold a lot of them and I've always thought the 92 is what a gun should look like. That Biliennium model is going to be worth $thousands if it already isn't. I was just reading that some gold investors are diversifying into gun collectables for their appreciative value. You must have a small fortune in firearms TD. My gun buddy loves the Walther PPK, which I thought my little .380 Bersa Thunder looked very similar.

Walther
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Bersa
View attachment 67120875

BTW he says his DE .44mag doesn't knock his arm up in the air because it uses a gas-operated mechanism normally found in rifles, as opposed to the short recoil or blow-back designs most commonly seen in semi-automatic pistols. All I know is the thing is big, heavy and deafening. He did agree a heavier gun with longer barrel can take the kick out of the higher calibers.
 
My wife gave me a billenium. we shot it since I would never sell a gift like that. Then I found one NIB I bought for about 1000-unfired-its going to stay that way 8 months later I was at the range and the manager had one that was in the aluminum case but was missing the original package. He asked me what I would pay for it. I said

100 bucks over what you paid for it. He said that's a fair mark up but what IF I paid 1200 for it? I said you wouldn't pay that much but I made an offer, I will stand by it. he said "give me 750"

One of the clerks said-We can sell that for 1000!!-

the manager said-he stood by his offer, I intend to honor that-



that's the one we shoot every once in a while
 
Couldn't guess really. I wasn't in the service so the only things I get are what friends and relatives tell me, that sounds about right.

Me either. I am working off of limited knowledge. Green Berrets are the force multipliers though. That is all I really know. They go in and teach people to do things.
 
ecofarm doesn't like the model and I've heard some say they love them others agree with him. I know they sure sold a lot of them and I've always thought the 92 is what a gun should look like. That Biliennium model is going to be worth $thousands if it already isn't. I was just reading that some gold investors are diversifying into gun collectables for their appreciative value. You must have a small fortune in firearms TD. My gun buddy loves the Walther PPK, which I thought my little .380 Bersa Thunder looked very similar.

Walther
View attachment 67120874

Bersa
View attachment 67120875

BTW he says his DE .44mag doesn't knock his arm up in the air because it uses a gas-operated mechanism normally found in rifles, as opposed to the short recoil or blow-back designs most commonly seen in semi-automatic pistols. All I know is the thing is big, heavy and deafening. He did agree a heavier gun with longer barrel can take the kick out of the higher calibers.

Heavy barrel means less muzzle jump. It doesn't really take out the felt recoil. I shot a 9mm (cannot remember the model) and then a PX4 Storm Berreta in .45ACP and noticed that the 9mm was snappier and had a higher muzzle jump than the .45acp. I thought that was odd. Of course I was a lot more tired after shooting the .45acp though because my body was still feeling the recoil.
 
SF are force multipliers too right? They work with locals and teach them things? I would think that that means that they do opperate from secure loations? Not to mention I would think training and experience are huge with them as well (not taking danger away just saying that they know the deal).


Yes, its called Foreign Internal Defense. A good example is Afghanistan. With U.S. monetary aid and CIA backing, they created, supplied and trained the Northern Alliance to push back the Taliban.That is just one of their missions though Their duties include Long Range Reconnaissance, Counter-Terrorism, Unconventional Warfare and Direct Action.
 
such hyperbolic nonesense.
I am 100% positive that your statement has been repeated many times in human history by people supporting a government that has promised them Utopia if they will only sacrifice just one more freedom.

The true believers scoff at the skeptics while anticipating the beautiful new world they have been promised untill they reach the totalitarian tipping point and the realization that utopia is actually a police state.

"beware the piper as you follow singing and dancing while he plays his beautiful tune"
 
I don't like .380s. I don't see a reason (for me) to go auto on a small frame. I figure if I gotta shoot more than 5, then I probably screwed up bad enough to deserve it. Small frame I'll take a .38 but I'd prefer a .357 (it's a little heavy but same size). Fullsize I'm 1911 man (I don't even need sights). Sigs are ok (.40). I don't like the sight over the rail, the way it moves, the small round, the big size, the sharp angles or clumsy handgrip of the 92. Just buy a Tauras, it's cheaper and comes with all the inconveniences.
 
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I don't like .380s. I don't see a reason (for me) to go auto on a small frame. I figure if I gotta shoot more than 5, then I probably screwed up bad enough to deserve it. Small frame I'll take a .38 but I'd prefer a .357 (it's a little heavy but same size). Fullsize I'm 1911 man (I don't even need sights). Sigs are ok (.40). I don't like the sight over the rail, the way it moves, the small round, the big size, the sharp angles or clumsy handgrip of the 92. Just buy a Tauras, it's cheaper and comes with all the inconveniences.

The Walther .380 were carried by MI6 for many years and I would think they're not sidearm illiterate? Do you think the .38 special is that big notch down from the .357mag? I mean there's a sacrifice of power for control and convenience but a .38 hollow will pretty much cut you up bad. Yeah, my friend says 150 rounds 45 ACP= sore arm! He likes the 1911 but not for all day range use. He does own the Taurus PT92 and thinks for the money it's a great gun and can definitely fire 200 rounds without wrist snap.
 
I've grown to the belief that firearms and their use can be reasonably regulated while keeping in line with the constitution. Rights aren't unlimited. The various restrictions on the 1st amendment prove this.
 
I've grown to the belief that firearms and their use can be reasonably regulated while keeping in line with the constitution. Rights aren't unlimited. The various restrictions on the 1st amendment prove this.
Three questions:

1. What reasons do you believe the founding fathers included the "Second Amendment"?

2. Exactly what do you believe to be "reasonably regulated" concerning the people's Second Amendment?

3. Who do you believe are affected most by those regulations, law abiding citizens or criminals and terrorists?
 
I've grown to the belief that firearms and their use can be reasonably regulated while keeping in line with the constitution. Rights aren't unlimited. The various restrictions on the 1st amendment prove this.

That's the whole crux of the debate over second amendment rights. Nobody is arguing that the right to bear arms is absolute. The disagreement is over where the line should be drawn, and there is nothing in the amendment itself that says where it should be drawn.

Still, whenever there is any proposal to limit a type of firearm, it's always a violation of the second amendment, and anyone who is in favor of the limitation is anti second amendment.
 
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