Should a rape victim be able to take the morning after pill?

roguenuke said:

I knew I saw it.

I don't agree, mainly because it still is her body. And, although most women would not have an issue taking Plan B after a rape, I can see it being a difficult choice for at least a few women in very specific circumstances. I think I would have a difficult time taking it if there was a chance any baby could actually be my husband's vice the rapist's.

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I think that the choice should be made for her if for no other reason that to prevent his DNA from infesting another human...

Temporal said:

Prove that you were raped.

Did you get a rape kit done at a hospital or a police station?

Did the perpetrator get arrested in time?

Did you take the matter to court and get a criminal conviction?

Are you sure you were even raped? I mean, maybe you actually were interested but changed your mind at the last minute?

Etc etc...

Plan B should be available to every woman in a prompt fashion. They shouldn't have to give any reason or personal details to get it. As soon as you create imaginary stipulations, then access is more difficult and restrictions become aribitrary.

Anyone who was mature enough to have sex and accidentally get pregnant is mature enough to receive Plan B. Whether or not it was a product of rape is none of your business.

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Are those questions hypotheticals?

While no one should ever be forced to use plan B, anyone who is possibly pregnant from a rape or incest should have the option available.

Aunt Spiker said:

Wrong thread It's ok.

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No it wasn't. Anyone who openly favors a blatant denial of another citizen's basic rights is of questionable moral character.

OhIsee.Then said:

An example, one of very many of this ilk, would be: On Sunday morning, a 16 year old girl will have to prove, for example, that she was raped by her 16 year old cousin, would have to just claim that. No, that wouldn’t work, she would lie and say that a stranger did it; she’d have to prove it, i.e. tell the truth. The prosecutor would have to accept her testimony, swab her for DNA and have the cousin arrested before allowing her to get the pill on Sunday morning. And you would see that this will help the related families. Please explain how. And, bty, the governmental staff that would be necessary for this will be very large, but your pro big government, correct?

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EXACTLY. Social conservatives favor to be against "big government" except when it comes to people's personal lives. Then they seem to want the government as big as it can possibly get!

Phys251 said:

EXACTLY. Social conservatives favor to be against "big government" except when it comes to people's personal lives. Then they seem to want the government as big as it can possibly get!

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On this issue, yes we do prefer big gov't. A) Because Planned Parenthood is a Federal program B) Because murder shouldn't be okay in any state. There's some things that no state should be allowed to institute and this is one of them.

Bodhisattva said:

Are those questions hypotheticals?

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No... they are very real if only rape victims can access Plan B.

And that's assuming a rape victim feels ready or able to approach law enforcement about the fact they were raped.

MarineTpartier said:

On this issue, yes we do prefer big gov't.

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Thank you. Just as with Tigger, though I strongly disagree with your views, at least you are honest about them.

A) Because Planned Parenthood is a Federal program B) Because murder shouldn't be okay in any state. There's some things that no state should be allowed to institute and this is one of them.

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PP is the US division of the International Planned Parenthood Federation, which is a non-governmental association. Nice try.

Phys251 said:

PP is the US division of the International Planned Parenthood Federation, which is a non-governmental association. Nice try.

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From the Western New York Planned Parenthood website:
"Planned Parenthood participates in a federal funding program called Title X (10); a program that allows us to supplement birth control, GYN care, and other reproductive health services for women who cannot pay full price for health care services. This program does not pay for abortion care."

From Lifenews.com
"On February 17, 2011, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott issued an opinion affirming that the state may exclude providers that perform abortions or are affiliates of abortion providers from a Medicaid program.

The Texas de-funding has already resulted in the closing of 12 Planned Parenthood centers.

“A new confirmed total of 12 Planned Parenthood facilities have been shut down in Texas since the end of the 82ndlegislative special session, which dealt the abortion industry a $64.2 million blow. Without government funding, Planned Parenthood facilities are withering on the vine. New funding priorities set by the legislature detail that any facility associated with the abortion industry is given the lowest priority for family planning funds. As a result, three Planned Parenthood affiliates have been forced to close several of their facilities in order to reduce operating costs,” said Elizbaeth Graham of Texas Right to Life.

Yep, that sounds like a gov't funded and operated program to me. I will agree my wording was misleading, but the intent behind it was to show that Planned Parenthood wouldn't exist without our taxpayer dollars. Something I strongly object to because I am staunchly pro-life yet I have to pay for the murder of innocent babies.

Phys251 said:

EXACTLY. Social conservatives favor to be against "big government" except when it comes to people's personal lives. Then they seem to want the government as big as it can possibly get!

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Abortion, considering as it amounts to basically murder from a pro-life perspective, is not one of the better areas for you to make these kind of arguments. This is not the same sort of issue as who you sleep with or even who you marry.

I only approve of abortion when it saves the life of the mother.

MarineTpartier said:

Yep, that sounds like a gov't funded and operated program to me. I will agree my wording was misleading, but the intent behind it was to show that Planned Parenthood wouldn't exist without our taxpayer dollars. Something I strongly object to because I am staunchly pro-life yet I have to pay for the murder of innocent babies.

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Planned Parenthood prevents more abortions. As per the Hyde Amendment, no federal tax dollars are spent on abortion unless for saving the life of the pregnant woman, rape, or incest. Even those are only for medicaid recipients. Since your are PRO-LIFE, I assume you are equally opposed to spending your money to pay for war, capital punishment. I assume you equally support spending tax money for improved health care for children and aid for impoverished single mothers.

OKgrannie said:

Planned Parenthood prevents more abortions. As per the Hyde Amendment, no federal tax dollars are spent on abortion unless for saving the life of the pregnant woman, rape, or incest. Even those are only for medicaid recipients. Since your are PRO-LIFE, I assume you are equally opposed to spending your money to pay for war, capital punishment. I assume you equally support spending tax money for improved health care for children and aid for impoverished single mothers.

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Nice try on spinning the pro-life thing. Since you're pro-choice, that would insinuate that you choose to kill people or not where as I wouldn't because I'm pro-life right? So, if we both really stick to your interpretation of it, I am on the moral high ground because I don't want to kill anyone whereas you kill people if you choose too. Weak argument from someone who has none. In addition, improved health care for children and aid for impoverished single mothers is not the discussion point and you're not going to re-direct from the fact that Federal taxpayer dollars do in fact fund Planned Parenthood who do in fact perform abortions. Don't confuse your issues with my facts. The fact is that an abortion is an abortion, whether for the life of a pregnant woman, rape, or incest. I'm not cold hearted and understand how hard it must be for a woman to go through those things. However, only 2.8% of abortions occur for the purpose of saving the mothers life. In addition, there is no clarification of what constitutes "life threatening" to a doctor that will perform an abortion.

MarineTpartier said:

Nice try on spinning the pro-life thing. Since you're pro-choice, that would insinuate that you choose to kill people or not where as I wouldn't because I'm pro-life right? So, if we both really stick to your interpretation of it, I am on the moral high ground because I don't want to kill anyone whereas you kill people if you choose too. Weak argument from someone who has none. In addition, improved health care for children and aid for impoverished single mothers is not the discussion point and you're not going to re-direct from the fact that Federal taxpayer dollars do in fact fund Planned Parenthood who do in fact perform abortions. Don't confuse your issues with my facts. The fact is that an abortion is an abortion, whether for the life of a pregnant woman, rape, or incest. I'm not cold hearted and understand how hard it must be for a woman to go through those things. However, only 2.8% of abortions occur for the purpose of saving the mothers life. In addition, there is no clarification of what constitutes "life threatening" to a doctor that will perform an abortion.

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Tax payer dollars do not go to perform abortions though. That is the point. Your tax payer dollars do not pay for women to have elective abortions at planned parenthood. I think planned parenthood has been persecuted for no reason. People do not seem to be understanding that. Planned Parenthood goes to helping women's health. It is a good cause but it has been demonized because of one facet of what they do.

MarineTpartier said:

Nice try on spinning the pro-life thing. Since you're pro-choice, that would insinuate that you choose to kill people or not where as I wouldn't because I'm pro-life right? So, if we both really stick to your interpretation of it, I am on the moral high ground because I don't want to kill anyone whereas you kill people if you choose too. Weak argument from someone who has none. In addition, improved health care for children and aid for impoverished single mothers is not the discussion point and you're not going to re-direct from the fact that Federal taxpayer dollars do in fact fund Planned Parenthood who do in fact perform abortions. Don't confuse your issues with my facts. The fact is that an abortion is an abortion, whether for the life of a pregnant woman, rape, or incest. I'm not cold hearted and understand how hard it must be for a woman to go through those things. However, only 2.8% of abortions occur for the purpose of saving the mothers life. In addition, there is no clarification of what constitutes "life threatening" to a doctor that will perform an abortion.

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You do understand that federal dollars funding Planned Parenthood must be spent on non-abortion services? The money must be carefully accounted for due to the Hyde Amendment. That money spent on providing low-cost birth control and education on using birth control prevents many more abortions than PP provides. If you want to see MORE abortions, defund PP.

MarineTpartier said:

From the Western New York Planned Parenthood website:
"Planned Parenthood participates in a federal funding program called Title X (10); a program that allows us to supplement birth control, GYN care, and other reproductive health services for women who cannot pay full price for health care services. This program does not pay for abortion care."

From Lifenews.com
"On February 17, 2011, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott issued an opinion affirming that the state may exclude providers that perform abortions or are affiliates of abortion providers from a Medicaid program.

The Texas de-funding has already resulted in the closing of 12 Planned Parenthood centers.

“A new confirmed total of 12 Planned Parenthood facilities have been shut down in Texas since the end of the 82ndlegislative special session, which dealt the abortion industry a $64.2 million blow. Without government funding, Planned Parenthood facilities are withering on the vine. New funding priorities set by the legislature detail that any facility associated with the abortion industry is given the lowest priority for family planning funds. As a result, three Planned Parenthood affiliates have been forced to close several of their facilities in order to reduce operating costs,” said Elizbaeth Graham of Texas Right to Life.

Yep, that sounds like a gov't funded and operated program to me. I will agree my wording was misleading, but the intent behind it was to show that Planned Parenthood wouldn't exist without our taxpayer dollars. Something I strongly object to because I am staunchly pro-life yet I have to pay for the murder of innocent babies.

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Federal FUNDING. Doesn't automatically mean that they're a government agency. Besides, if you had simply researched via primary sources, you would have found this:

"The award will be made at an awards ceremony hosted by the International Planned Parenthood Federation (IPPF), the world’s largest non-governmental organization working on sexual and reproductive health and rights, in London, 27 November 2010."

Assuming you even clicked on the above link, did you notice what the homepage is? Ippf.org. What was that about Planned Parenthood being a federal program? And even if you meant that as PP's scope, it's under the umbrella of IPPF, which is international.

You really, really need to be more careful with your wording next time.

Wessexman said:

Abortion, considering as it amounts to basically murder from a pro-life perspective, is not one of the better areas for you to make these kind of arguments. This is not the same sort of issue as who you sleep with or even who you marry.

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Oh really? Then tell me, if abortion becomes illegal, how are they gonna enforce against all the back-alley abortions? Police staffs are already overworked as is.

lovetosing4678 said:

Tax payer dollars do not go to perform abortions though. That is the point. Your tax payer dollars do not pay for women to have elective abortions at planned parenthood. I think planned parenthood has been persecuted for no reason. People do not seem to be understanding that. Planned Parenthood goes to helping women's health. It is a good cause but it has been demonized because of one facet of what they do.

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OKgrannie said:

You do understand that federal dollars funding Planned Parenthood must be spent on non-abortion services? The money must be carefully accounted for due to the Hyde Amendment. That money spent on providing low-cost birth control and education on using birth control prevents many more abortions than PP provides. If you want to see MORE abortions, defund PP.

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Isn't it interesting how the anti-Planned-Parenthood attacks generally come from and not ?

Phys251 said:

Isn't it interesting how the anti-Planned-Parenthood attacks generally come from

and not

?

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Interesting how this is an ad-hominem attack?

Murder is murder. If you can't justify it outside of the womb then you can't justify it inside of the womb.

Phys251 said:

Isn't it interesting how the anti-Planned-Parenthood attacks generally come from

and not

?

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Don't inject sexism into this. You'll only piss off those males who support you.

MarineTpartier said:

you're not going to re-direct from the fact that Federal taxpayer dollars do in fact fund Planned Parenthood who do in fact perform abortions.

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Federal funds can't be spent on abortions.

PP spends it on, among other things, birth control that prevents abortions.

You're the one redirecting.

phattonez said:

Interesting how this is an ad-hominem attack?

Murder is murder. If you can't justify it outside of the womb then you can't justify it inside of the womb.

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No it's not an ad hominem. If I claim that females are more likely to do X or males are more likely to do Y, that in and of itself is not an ad hominem. It's pretty rare to meet a non-Mormon, non-Catholic woman that opposes birth control.

misterman said:

Don't inject sexism into this. You'll only piss off those males who support you.

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Denial of sexism is a form of sexism. Besides, truly pro-choice men are going to tend to agree with me, because it's not gonna bruise their egos to do so.

Phys251 said:

No it's not an ad hominem. If I claim that females are more likely to do X or males are more likely to do Y, that in and of itself is not an ad hominem. It's pretty rare to meet a non-Mormon, non-Catholic woman that opposes birth control.



Denial of sexism is a form of sexism. Besides, truly pro-choice men are going to tend to agree with me, because it's not gonna bruise their egos to do so.

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Many women would say that you are pigeonholing them.

My experience has been that most of the people who I see protesting pro-choice and most of the people who seem to be anti-choice are men. There may be a reason for that and one of the reasons may be is that they aren't talking about laws that effect their bodies. They are seeking to impose their beliefs on women.

Risky Thicket said:

My experience has been that most of the people who I see protesting pro-choice and most of the people who seem to be anti-choice are men. There may be a reason for that and one of the reasons may be is that they aren't talking about laws that effect their bodies. They are seeking to impose their beliefs on women.

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Just like Northerners tried to impose their views on slave-owning Southerners, right? How immoral of those Northerners.

phattonez said:

Just like Northerners tried to impose their views on slave-owning Southerners, right? How immoral of those Northerners.

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Yup, because claiming ownership of another sentient being is totally the same thing as claiming ownership of your own body. :roll:

I just can't take an anti-choicer seriously when they go to the slavery thing, or the Hitler thing. I can't take anti-choice all that seriously anyway if I'm honest, but it makes it that much harder. It's like if Godwin's Law and creationism got together and had a retarded incest baby.

Okay, I'm not quoting everyone I am counter pointing here so everyone has to read lol.
1) To say that my taxpayer dollars don't fund elective abortions because (with sarcastic tone) "The gov't says it won't happen" or "people at Planned Parenthood say it won't" is so naive it isn't even funny. This is the same gov't that is giving guns to narco-terrorists, so, excuse me if I am doubtful of their ability to hold people accountable.
2) If indeed no tax payer dollars pay for an actual abortion. My taxpayer dollars are still paying for the doctor willing to do it and the equipment he/she uses to perform it. I am also paying their lease. I don't want one cent of my taxpayer dollars funding anything to do with a place performing abortions. Thats like funding the building of a mosque and saying my taxpayer dollars don't fund the sermon on killing Americans.
3) I will make this point again. I don't care if it is abortion for incest, rape, whatever. I am still paying for it and I don't want to. I'm pretty sure there is a lawsuit that could be brought to make Federal funding of these places stop but I don't have the money to do it.