Photo ID to vote?

AGENT J · Dec 16, 2011

uhm I get asked for ID everytime I vote and sometimes they ask me to confirm my address.

Guess thats not the norm?

Removable Mind · Dec 16, 2011

jamesrage said:
By your logic showing a ID is discrimination.So therefore requiring someone to show ID to purchase a firearm is discrimination in your eyes.

James, your trying to draw me into an irrelevant issue. The topic is about ID to vote.

pbrauer · Dec 16, 2011

Josie said:
Everyone should have a photo ID. It's just a basic action that really doesn't require any hard work.

'Maybe not for you, however for many people it who are old and infirm it's not quite that easy. Many photo-ids require a birth certificate which might have been lost and it's costly to replace them.

Luna Tick · Dec 16, 2011

Blackdog said:
So it would change nothing as far as illegals. I mean they can register now, so what difference would it make?

It would be to cut down on dead people voting, animals voting etc. Illegals are a separate matter.

I'm honestly okay with requiring an ID to vote as long as it's free for a poor person to get an ID (a state ID, not necessarily a drivers license). Some people are homeless and are so dirt poor that even what's a modest fee to most of us to apply for an ID is a burden. A citizen who's penniless and homeless is still a citizen and still should get to vote.

I agree with you that dead people, animals, comic book characters, etc. should not vote. Non-citizens should not either. There could be a standard citizenship emblem on all drivers licenses. Maybe it's a gold-colored eagle. A non-citizen legal resident would get a different emblem on their license, something respectful, but way different from the citizenship one. Think it could work?

jamesrage · Dec 16, 2011

Luna Tick said:
If the idea is to prevent non-citizens from voting, there's a problem. A legal resident (and in some states an illegal one) who's not a citizen can get a drivers license. He could then register and vote. Do you think we should put some kind of icon on all drivers licenses and state IDs that indicates whether or not someone is a citizen?

I'm fine with a person from another country legally residing here getting a drivers license. In fact, I think that's safer. I just don't think a non-citizen has any business voting.

If we do not have a driver’s License Reciprocity agreement with the country the non-resident is from then we should have a temporary visitor license.

Black Dog · Dec 16, 2011

Luna Tick said:
I'm honestly okay with requiring an ID to vote as long as it's free for a poor person to get an ID (a state ID, not necessarily a drivers license). Some people are homeless and are so dirt poor that even what's a modest fee to most of us to apply for an ID is a burden. A citizen who's penniless and homeless is still a citizen and still should get to vote.

I agree with you that dead people, animals, comic book characters, etc. should not vote. Non-citizens should not either. There could be a standard citizenship emblem on all drivers licenses. Maybe it's a gold-colored eagle. A non-citizen legal resident would get a different emblem on their license, something respectful, but way different from the citizenship one. Think it could work?

Everyone keeps saying the "poor" would have a hardship getting ID. I don't buy it. As I have said before and no one has responded to yet: They don't seem to have a problem getting id to collect welfare and food stamps?

I can agree with the rest of your post.

ThePlayDrive · Dec 16, 2011

Blackdog said:
And many are not, so what?

From 2002-2005, only 70 people were convicted of federal-election related crimes, so that's not "many" and certainly not enough to constitute an actual threat to the election system.

In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud - New York Times

Many cases of murder, assault and robbery are thrown out, so we should just not enforce laws because some are thrown out?

When did I say we should not enforce laws? When did I say that those guilty of fraud should not be prosecuted? Way to put words in my mouth. Good job.

Fake id's are much harder to produce now days, and usually by professionals. I don't see mass production of fake id's for voter fraud happening anytime soon. So yes I ignored it because it is baseless and a really dumb argument.

Why would there be "mass production" when voter fraud doesn't even exist on a "massive scale"? I'm sorry that you think the fact that people who are ridiculous enough to commit fraud now won't find a way to do it with IDs is "dumb".

If they seem to have no problem getting them to get food stamps etc. I see no problem.

Good way to not address the point by stereotyping and making assumptions. A+ analysis.

Black Dog · Dec 16, 2011

pbrauer said:
'Maybe not for you, however for many people it who are old and infirm it's not quite that easy. Many photo-ids require a birth certificate which might have been lost and it's costly to replace them.

Absentee ballots would not cease to exist.

Worst case Scenarios do not win an argument.

VanceMack · Dec 16, 2011

Removable Mind said:
Wow TD, you didn't waste anytime moving somewhere far away from the topic of Photo ID's. Good, boy.

Really? Both involve a 'constitutional right'...so you have no problem allowing anyone to walk in and purchase a firearm...right? I mean...as long as they are who they say they are...thats good enough!

jamesrage · Dec 16, 2011

pbrauer said:
'Maybe not for you, however for many people it who are old and infirm it's not quite that easy.

I am pretty sure someone who is old or infirm can get someone to drive them down to the tag agency or DMV to get a ID.

Many photo-ids require a birth certificate which might have been lost and it's costly to replace them.

My mom was born in California.She accidentally let her license expire.She did not have a certified birth certificate. Oklahoma requires that you show certified birth certificate to get a driver's license if you let your license expire.She filed out a form sent and a check for 16 dollars and got a birth certificate.It was not costly or difficult to replace it.

VanceMack · Dec 16, 2011

pbrauer said:
'Maybe not for you, however for many people it who are old and infirm it's not quite that easy. Many photo-ids require a birth certificate which might have been lost and it's costly to replace them.

Horse****. Those old and infirmed folks HAVE their IDs and are using them to get their basic services. You people are comical. ANYTHING to preserve that voter fraud baby!

Black Dog · Dec 16, 2011

theplaydrive said:
From 2002-2005, only 70 people were convicted of federal-election related crimes, so that's not "many" and certainly not enough to constitute an actual threat to the election system.

In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud - New York Times

Since when did this become about "Federal Only?"

Nice try leaving out state and local where most fraud occurs.

theplaydrive said:
When did I say we should not enforce laws? When did I say that those guilty of fraud should not be prosecuted? Way to put words in my mouth. Good job.

I put nothing in your mouth, I asked two questions. That's what the little "?" means at the end of a sentence.

You said "That's great. Thousands of cases that accuse people of voter fraud are thrown out every year."

To which I replied "And many are not, so what? Many cases of murder, assault and robbery are thrown out, so we should just not enforce laws because some are thrown out?"

Nice try again, but no cigar.

theplaydrive said:
Why would there be "mass production" when voter fraud doesn't even exist on a "massive scale"? I'm sorry that you think the fact that people who are ridiculous enough to commit fraud now won't find a way to do it with IDs is "dumb".

That is not what I said not at all. You really need to read what I said and not imagine things as you have been so far.

theplaydrive said:
Good way to not address the point by stereotyping and making assumptions. A+ analysis.

I said "If they seem to have no problem getting them to get food stamps etc. I see no problem."

If you are not going to reply truthfully and stop making **** up, don't bother.

You are wrong, period. You know this and are now making up stupid **** and trying to play some kind of silly game.

jamesrage · Dec 16, 2011

Removable Mind said:
James, your trying to draw me into an irrelevant issue. The topic is about ID to vote.

Nothing irrelevant about it.If requiring someone to show ID to vote is a form of discrimination then so is requiring someone to show ID to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.Is showing a ID a form of discrimination or isn't it?

FFDP666 · Dec 16, 2011

I voted no, although i wouldn't care to much about it either way. you have a voting card, that should be enough. what if you don't have a driver's license, maybe your taking an extreme greed stance, and you don't drink or smoke, and you never go on planes? oh well, to bad for you then? hell no. voting is a right, getting a drivers license is not, getting on a plane is not a right etc etc, if its a right all you should need is to be a citizen, thats it.

ThePlayDrive · Dec 16, 2011

Blackdog said:
Since when did this become about "Federal Only?"

Nice try leaving out state and local where most fraud occurs.

Nice try? LOL, somebody didn't read the OP:

Josie said:
Should people have to show their photo ID in order to vote in US presidential elections? Why or why not?

I put nothing in your mouth, I asked two questions. That's what the little "?" means at the end of a sentence.

You said "That's great. Thousands of cases that accuse people of voter fraud are thrown out every year."

To which I replied "And many are not, so what? Many cases of murder, assault and robbery are thrown out, so we should just not enforce laws because some are thrown out?"

Nice try again, but no cigar.

I'm not trying anything. I didn't say anything about enforcing or not enforcing laws. The question was either putting words in my mouth or random as hell.

That is not what I said not at all. You really need to read what I said and not imagine things as you have been so far.

You said, "I don't see mass production of fake id's for voter fraud happening anytime soon. So yes I ignored it because it is baseless and a really dumb argument." Why would it matter if you don't see "mass production" of fake id's happening and why is my argument dumb since it did not rest on the premise of mass production at all?

I said "If they seem to have no problem getting them to get food stamps etc. I see no problem."

If you are not going to reply truthfully and stop making **** up, don't bother.

You are wrong, period. You know this and are now making up stupid **** and trying to play some kind of silly game.

I misinterpreted this. My bad.

FFDP666 · Dec 16, 2011

jamesrage said:
Nothing irrelevant about it.If requiring someone to show ID to vote is a form of discrimination then so is requiring someone to show ID to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.Is showing a ID a form of discrimination or isn't it?

that is way different, you are purchasing a weapon, that all you have to do, to kill someone, is to pull your damn finger, so yeah, for THAT right, your going to need everything from a background check to a photo id and such.

AGENT J · Dec 16, 2011

Objective-J said:
uhm I get asked for ID everytime I vote and sometimes they ask me to confirm my address.

Guess thats not the norm?

SO is this the norm or not, Im confused on this issue. I know its not the law but for mr its the norm, happens everytime I vote here in Pittsburgh?

ThePlayDrive · Dec 16, 2011

Objective-J said:
SO is this the norm or not, Im confused on this issue. I know its not the law but for mr its the norm, happens everytime I vote here in Pittsburgh?

No, I usually just have to sign something that matches my voter registration signature. I carry my ID just in case, but I've never had to show it.

Kal'Stang · Dec 16, 2011

theplaydrive said:
The voter fraud problem in the US is greatly exaggerated and it will just end up being transferred to fake IDs under these conditions. Yeah, baseless or specious, more precisely.

Interestingly enough it is harder to get a fake ID and more costly to get one than it is to go to the DMV and get a real ID card. Last I knew in my area it cost something like 15-20 dollars to get an ID card. I read somewhere that it costs around $100 dollars just for a fake drivers license....once you find someone willing to do it....which do you think is more likely to happen?

Not saying that there won't be fake ID's used....illegals pay for em all the time.

Kal'Stang · Dec 16, 2011

pbrauer said:
'Maybe not for you, however for many people it who are old and infirm it's not quite that easy. Many photo-ids require a birth certificate which might have been lost and it's costly to replace them.

I replaced mine not long ago...$10 for a filing fee and another $10 for ...well, can't remember now. But $20 bucks is not costly. And it would be a simple matter to get the infirm an ID. Just do what my area does...provide someone from the dmv that can come out to thier home and deal with the necessary work.

Kal'Stang · Dec 16, 2011

Luna Tick said:
I'm honestly okay with requiring an ID to vote as long as it's free for a poor person to get an ID (a state ID, not necessarily a drivers license). Some people are homeless and are so dirt poor that even what's a modest fee to most of us to apply for an ID is a burden. A citizen who's penniless and homeless is still a citizen and still should get to vote.

I agree with you that dead people, animals, comic book characters, etc. should not vote. Non-citizens should not either. There could be a standard citizenship emblem on all drivers licenses. Maybe it's a gold-colored eagle. A non-citizen legal resident would get a different emblem on their license, something respectful, but way different from the citizenship one. Think it could work?

Just how many homeless people are going to take the time to register and vote? I don't know about you but I've never seen a homeless person even attempt to vote.

Edit: One more thing...last I knew in order to vote in an area you have to show proof of residence at the time that you get your voter registration. So it looks like the homeless already miss out.

Link
Link

Catawba · Dec 16, 2011

VanceMack said:
The incidents of vote fraud are well documented as are the NUMEROUS incidents of people forging voter registration. Bottom line is hey LOVE the cheating because it is their side doing it. Totally rediculous. We can expect any joe schmuck to show an ID card to buy a pack of smokes but omigish! It's not fair to make them show an ID to cast a ballot. Sorry...no other way to paint it....LOVES that voter fraud!!!

"Last night on the O’Reilly Factor, Occidental College political science Prof. Caroline Heldman endeavored to relieve host Bill O’Reilly of his dogged belief that the infinitesimal rate of voter fraud warrants disenfranchising 5 million people. “You’re harboring the misconception that’s you have lots of people trying to vote [fraudulently]. You face five years in prison and a $10,000 fine if you engage in voter fraud, that’s why almost nobody does it.” Heldman noted that the voter ID bills that are popping up around the country aren’t in response to an actual problem but actually created by the American Legislative Exchange Commission (ALEC) which has written, printed, and pushed an identical voter ID bill in several different states. In fact, “every single one of the five states that recently passed Voter ID legislation had [ALEC] members as co-sponsors of the legislation.” O’Reilly responded, “I’ve never heard of that,” later adding “it doesn’t matter if its common sense.”

“It’s anti-democratic, it’s going to demobilize 5 million legally registered voters,” Heldman tried again, citing the Brennan Center, ThinkProgress, and the ACLU’s research. “ThinkProgress, that’s a far left outfit,” O’Reilly said. “I don’t believe that for a second.” To which Heldman replied, “They’re crunching numbers, Bill. Numbers are numbers.”

Justice | ThinkProgress

"

ThePlayDrive · Dec 16, 2011

Kal'Stang said:
Interestingly enough it is harder to get a fake ID and more costly to get one than it is to go to the DMV and get a real ID card. Last I knew in my area it cost something like 15-20 dollars to get an ID card. I read somewhere that it costs around $100 dollars just for a fake drivers license....once you find someone willing to do it....which do you think is more likely to happen?

Not saying that there won't be fake ID's used....illegals pay for em all the time.

Which do I think is more likely? Well, it's not a question of either/or in this case really. It's a question of fraud and those who commit fraud aren't going to apply for an actual ID because for some reason registering to vote is a problem for them.

LaMidRighter · Dec 16, 2011

theplaydrive said:
Which do I think is more likely? Well, it's not a question of either/or in this case really. It's a question of fraud and those who commit fraud aren't going to apply for an actual ID because for some reason registering to vote is a problem for them.

Then it should be easier to catch more of them correct? First off, voter fraud is a felony as well as presenting a fake ID and then if the ID was based on an actual person then that is an additional identity theft charge so basically we wouldn't have to worry about that person doing it again for around 25 years.

Kal'Stang · Dec 16, 2011

theplaydrive said:
Which do I think is more likely? Well, it's not a question of either/or in this case really. It's a question of fraud and those who commit fraud aren't going to apply for an actual ID because for some reason registering to vote is a problem for them.

Some will no doubt start using fake ID's. But how many? All of them? Or just the ones that can afford it? Getting 1 fake ID is not cheap...getting thousands? Hmm....

Photo ID to vote?

Photo ID to vote?

Yes

No

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