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Photo ID to vote?

Photo ID to vote?


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If you still consider O'Keefe videos to be evidence of anything after he was exposed for having faked the previous ones I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying

I'm gonna run down to the nearest voting place and grab up a whole bunch of those false documents so I can try to vote out all of the crooked politicians who have been ****ing the voters to death for decades.
 
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Wow, how predictable. Logging in, checking your 'subscribed to' threads where a certain not so talented sham fartist foisted the whole "17.2" emission and never could deliver on "how" requiring an I.D. to vote would do as he claimed? Then noticing that like most internet "debaters" he went *poof* when it became obvious how sad and trite his organ grind had become is now "trolling"? OK! Correct trolling none the less. I know I'd post a picture that implied a message even more weak than the noxious one I had before. If confronted with such and I had no stones. Or really would just rather, slither.......................

Good for you Catawba, good for you. Still all in all, a poor and unpersuasive argument you saddled yourself with there. Way to go, bully for you. A complete failure in any intellectual or "debate" sense, but then we all know ahead of time that on these types of "debate" matters you cleave to the Sheen play book. You drink tigers blood and are WINNING!:doh
 
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Wow, how surprising. Not only did Catawba run for the hills where his "17.2" percent argument went to die, but this must also be the place where the DNC hid the whole "requiring an ID to vote will disenfranchise voters" brain fart. Too bad, who knew that this is really all about getting illegal votes from non citizens so ya can get into office ala politics as usual? I mean aside from everyone but passionate defender of the same Catawba?

About 1% of legal voters don't have a valid photo ID. About 10% of legal voters don't have a photo ID that was issued by the state they are voting in which has their current address. We can assume that some portion of the people in those categories would go and get a new ID just to vote, but realistically, not many. So, just requiring a voter ID disenfranchises around 1% of the voters- about 2.5 million people, where requiring a photo ID that was issued by the state in which you are voting and which has your current address disenfranchises around 25 million people. Maybe if you figure 1 in 5 would go get a new ID just to vote, that'd be 2 million and 20 million.

As a point of comparison, the highest estimates for fraud I've ever seen from any study indicated that fraudulent votes account for maybe 0.1% of votes cast in the worst case scenarios. Most estimates are down in the 0.001% sort of range for a typical election, but lets go with 0.1% just to be ultra conservative about it. So, total, a provision requiring any valid photo ID would make elections 0.7% less accurate (still assuming 1/5 would go get a new ID), where a provision requiring a photo ID issued by the state you are voting in with your current address would make voting 7.9% less accurate.

Personally, I'm willing to sacrifice 0.7% of the accuracy of our elections just to make you guys shut up about it already. But 7.9%? No freaking way. That is straight up election rigging of the sort that can be a real threat to democracy itself.
 
And everybody only thought that the Russians and Chinese brainwash their people...HA!
 
Voter Suppression in America

"Aside from the occasional unproven anecdote or baseless allegation, supporters of these laws simply cannot show that there is any need for them. Indeed, despite the Department of Justice’s 2002 “Ballot Access and Voting Integrity Initiative” promising to vigorously prosecute allegations of voter fraud, the federal government obtained only 26 convictions or guilty pleas for fraud between 2002 and 2005. And other studies of voter fraud consistently find that it is exceedingly rare – a 2007 Demos study concluded that “voter fraud appears to be very rare” and a 2007 study by the Brennan Center found that “by any measure, voter fraud is extraordinarily rare.” The Voting Rights Project will continue to fight these laws that disenfranchise millions of eligible voters without any legitimate justification."
Voter Suppression in America - Protecting Access to the Ballot, Breaking Barriers to Voting | American Civil Liberties Union

ACLU Intervenes in Arizona's Challenge of the Voting Rights Act

ACLU Files Lawsuit Challenging Wisconsin’s Unconstitutional Voter ID Law
 
About 1% of legal voters don't have a valid photo ID. About 10% of legal voters don't have a photo ID that was issued by the state they are voting in which has their current address. We can assume that some portion of the people in those categories would go and get a new ID just to vote, but realistically, not many. So, just requiring a voter ID disenfranchises around 1% of the voters- about 2.5 million people, where requiring a photo ID that was issued by the state in which you are voting and which has your current address disenfranchises around 25 million people. Maybe if you figure 1 in 5 would go get a new ID just to vote, that'd be 2 million and 20 million.

As a point of comparison, the highest estimates for fraud I've ever seen from any study indicated that fraudulent votes account for maybe 0.1% of votes cast in the worst case scenarios. Most estimates are down in the 0.001% sort of range for a typical election, but lets go with 0.1% just to be ultra conservative about it. So, total, a provision requiring any valid photo ID would make elections 0.7% less accurate (still assuming 1/5 would go get a new ID), where a provision requiring a photo ID issued by the state you are voting in with your current address would make voting 7.9% less accurate.

Personally, I'm willing to sacrifice 0.7% of the accuracy of our elections just to make you guys shut up about it already. But 7.9%? No freaking way. That is straight up election rigging of the sort that can be a real threat to democracy itself.
I really could care less what you are willing to sacrifice. Do you understand how this works? As in, got sources for your stats or are they plucked from the air whole cloth? Remember ahead of time, you're supposedly trying to convince someone that requiring voters to prove they have the right to vote is supposed to hurt the system more than allowing non citizens with no right to vote won't. Ya gotta come to the internet to see people making the same case shylock politicians trolling for every vote with a "hole" in the system that everyone knows needs addressing. Only your so called "argument is it does not need addressing. All because you are willing to "sacrifice"? Thankfully that kind of idiocy is relegated to people trying to make the argument you are. Must be frustrating watching common sense prevail state after state. I predict it is going to be a difficult road ahead for you as more states follow suit. Or don't you follow the news?
 
Voter Suppression in America

"Aside from the occasional unproven anecdote or baseless allegation, supporters of these laws simply cannot show that there is any need for them. Indeed, despite the Department of Justice’s 2002 “Ballot Access and Voting Integrity Initiative” promising to vigorously prosecute allegations of voter fraud, the federal government obtained only 26 convictions or guilty pleas for fraud between 2002 and 2005. And other studies of voter fraud consistently find that it is exceedingly rare – a 2007 Demos study concluded that “voter fraud appears to be very rare” and a 2007 study by the Brennan Center found that “by any measure, voter fraud is extraordinarily rare.” The Voting Rights Project will continue to fight these laws that disenfranchise millions of eligible voters without any legitimate justification."
Voter Suppression in America - Protecting Access to the Ballot, Breaking Barriers to Voting | American Civil Liberties Union

ACLU Intervenes in Arizona's Challenge of the Voting Rights Act

ACLU Files Lawsuit Challenging Wisconsin’s Unconstitutional Voter ID Law
There really is nothing like another Catawba bromide blindly issued campaign statement sounding rationale. So what if it is out of left field and addresses nothing anyone said and looks like nothing more than just play by the book posturing. Posturing? Catawba doing this? No way! You mean when he should be making his previously abandoned case or his idiotic "17.2" brain fart try to go away, but instead seems to have downed a gallon can of beans with bran flakes and is doubling down? Catawba the internet debater? No way!
 
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how many people have been convicted of voter fraud in the US say over the last decade?
 
how many people have been convicted of voter fraud in the US say over the last decade?

From above: "the Department of Justice’s 2002 “Ballot Access and Voting Integrity Initiative” promising to vigorously prosecute allegations of voter fraud, the federal government obtained only 26 convictions or guilty pleas for fraud between 2002 and 2005. And other studies of voter fraud consistently find that it is exceedingly rare – a 2007 Demos study concluded that “voter fraud appears to be very rare” and a 2007 study by the Brennan Center found that “by any measure, voter fraud is extraordinarily rare.” The Voting Rights Project will continue to fight these laws that disenfranchise millions of eligible voters without any legitimate justification."
 
how many people have been convicted of voter fraud in the US say over the last decade?
Don't know. Is the topic supposed to be the prosecution rate for voting fraud cases? I am supposed to assume that you are arguing that if we simply require voters to prove they are who they say they are, that rate will go down and all monies and efforts directed in that direction will be better spent elsewhere? Hell that is a good argument. I agree completely, thanks for the assistance.

One thing is for sure, no matter how many "internet debaters" fling themselves into the fray, no sound argument against reform is a winning one.
 
One thing is for sure, no matter how many "internet debaters" fling themselves into the fray, no sound argument against reform is a winning one.

So you're just saying that you don't care about arguments or evidence or anything, you're just going to go with the assumption you started with. So why don't you just go somewhere else then? Here- http://www.4chan.org/. You'll dig that more. No arguments, no expectation that you use your brain. Just good times.
 
Simply link where the data in that material supports your comments. Then correlate how this means we should not reform the system, try to sell it to the masses and good luck. Expect disappointment. Just saying the masses clearly are not buying it. Which is A-OK in my book. Like I said, you gotta come to the internet to see the whole don't reform it argument passionately made. Regardless how flat and lifeless it comes across.
 
So you're just saying that you don't care about arguments or evidence or anything, you're just going to go with the assumption you started with. So why don't you just go somewhere else then? Here- 4chan. You'll dig that more. No arguments, no expectation that you use your brain. Just good times.
You trying the whole "you are saying" tripe again? Know how to tell what I am saying? I said it, it appears in English text and can be copied and pasted. Get out of here with that limp noodle.
 
Simply link where the data in that material supports your comments.

It says right on that page that 11% of people don't have photo ID that meet the requirements about current address and whatnot. The page also contains links to all the extensive studies backing up that finding. If there is something else you need a source for, lets hear it. Otherwise I gather that despite your blowhardiness you have conceded the actual issue.
 
Simply link where the data in that material supports your comments. Then correlate how this means we should not reform the system, try to sell it to the masses and good luck. Expect disappointment. Just saying the masses clearly are not buying it. Which is A-OK in my book. Like I said, you gotta come to the internet to see the whole don't reform it argument passionately made. Regardless how flat and lifeless it comes across.

How about you post a source as expert as the Brennan Center for Justice to refute them, if you can? So far, everyone has provided documented sources to back up their position, and you have provided only your opinion.
 
It says right on that page that 11% of people don't have photo ID that meet the requirements about current address and whatnot. The page also contains links to all the extensive studies backing up that finding. If there is something else you need a source for, lets hear it. Otherwise I gather that despite your blowhardiness you have conceded the actual issue.
Source? I need none at all. Are you not able to follow along? You are right, my "blowhardiness" does not find a thing you have said to make a valid or even common sense argument for why we should NOT require voters to prove they are who they say they are and have the right to vote. How silly of you to make the 'a little bit of fraud never hurt anybody except a few people' case. What about the fact that neither I nor to judge the public at large is not buying your case is it that bothers you? Wait. Sorry. Who cares? This has nothing to do with how many times anything has been prosecuted and that is a seriously limp noodle you have there. Just saying. This is why you are in for reams of frustration, your silly internet argument, meandering and unrelated as it is to the issue of reform, is only that. An internet argument, I'm very thankful that is the only place anyone will pay it any attention.
 
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It's unfortunate, but now there are too many illegals running around to NOT have to show ID. I wish they would required more than just a photo. Thanks, liberals, for weakening our borders and making even simple things like voting become needlessly complex.
 
Sunbelt, apparently you're not from Texas. GWB did and Perry allows the borders to be weak for political reasons. Think about it.
 
Sunbelt, apparently you're not from Texas. GWB did and Perry allows the borders to be weak for political reasons. Think about it.
The fact of the matter is that despite political posturing, the border towns in Texas are some of the safest to live in, in the United States.
 
Source? I need none at all. Are you not able to follow along? You are right, my "blowhardiness" does not find a thing you have said to make a valid or even common sense argument for why we should NOT require voters to prove they are who they say they are and have the right to vote. How silly of you to make the 'a little bit of fraud never hurt anybody except a few people' case. What about the fact that neither I nor to judge the public at large is not buying your case is it that bothers you? Wait. Sorry. Who cares? This has nothing to do with how many times anything has been prosecuted and that is a seriously limp noodle you have there. Just saying. This is why you are in for reams of frustration, your silly internet argument, meandering and unrelated as it is to the issue of reform, is only that. An internet argument, I'm very thankful that is the only place anyone will pay it any attention.

I'm telling you. 4chan.com. Check it out. You'll like it better. It's more up your ally. No arguments, no evidence, just fun pictures.
 
It's unfortunate, but now there are too many illegals running around to NOT have to show ID. I wish they would required more than just a photo. Thanks, liberals, for weakening our borders and making even simple things like voting become needlessly complex.

Show us the statistics of illegals voting fraudulently???
 
I'm telling you. 4chan.com. Check it out. You'll like it better. It's more up your ally. No arguments, no evidence, just fun pictures.
Nothing but a thinly veiled ad hom. I'd be careful from here on out in this thread, since that is all you have to fall back on. It really does steam your Cleavland that you can't make any head way with your empty rhetoric huh? You just can't wrap your limp noodle around the fact you can't put forth a cognizant and even relevant argument on the topic. Clearly. That is not my fault, or anyone else's for that matter. You take up the "a little bit of fraud is OK" banner you get what you volunteered for. So what if this leaves you making the same sad little case that the crooked politicians who count on being able to count on illegal and fraudulent votes does. You wanna blabber about prosecution rates, well blabber away. Just stop looking for atta-boys for it. I don't atta-boy folks thumb gouging themselves in both eyes while they crow about their "view" of the world through the same prism.
 
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The fact of the matter is that despite political posturing, the border towns in Texas are some of the safest to live in, in the United States.

I don't posture...I'm a native Texan. I've lived here for quite a few decades. I know the politics here. I know how safe for unsafe the border is along Texas. Believe me, it's plenty unsafe and you can drive bus loads of terrorists across.
 
I don't posture...I'm a native Texan. I've lived here for quite a few decades. I know the politics here. I know how safe for unsafe the border is along Texas. Believe me, it's plenty unsafe and you can drive bus loads of terrorists across.
I did not say you postured. The border towns in Texas are statistically safer than most parts of the US. I thought you said "don't believe" Rick Perry? You paying attention here?

EDIT: My error. You did not say that. However, the only place the idea that US border towns are "dangerous" particularly compared to most US cities is laughable and easily debunked. No matter what Rick Perry says. In fact the fact he says that should be your first clue it is not the case. IMO. just saying.
 
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