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Is the OWS against Capitalism?

Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?


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No, those are not the things that make up a platform. What I listed were just a few of the constituent groups of the OWS movement, and each constituent group has their own belief separate from the beliefs of the other constituent group.

And, yes, political parties have multiple ideas. But the various groups within OWS may have conflicting ideas that prevent it from being what you would call a third party.

As I stated before, some groups that have associated with the OWS are socialists and anarchists. Socialists seek to use government as a tool for various policies. Anarchists seek to eliminate government altogether for various reasons. These means that the multiple ideals that socialists and anarchists have are incompatible with each other for them to unite as a single political party.



Just because a group is not of the Right does not necessarily mean that it is also of the Left.

Ok you keep saying that OWS is made up of different groups. please show me who they are. Give me some links.


The entire OWS model is Leftist all the way down to the General Assembly. Every sign being held, every position being asserted. I challenge you to show me a legit OWS protester that is not on the Left.
 
Ok you keep saying that OWS is made up of different groups. please show me who they are. Give me some links.

I know that anarchists are a part of the OWS because I heard an NPR report about someone who worked on Wall Street talk to a group of anarchists attending the NYC protests so he could learn a bit about anarchism and so he could teach a bit about Wall Street to anarchists.

I know that socialists are a part of OWS because I've seen interviews of OWS protest that widening wealth gap and advocating redistribution of wealth to end it.

I know that the elderly are a part of OWS because I've seen them participate in news reports.

I know that young college students are a part of OWS because I've seen them interviewed by on news reports.

Those are the only broad groups I've mentioned because those are the only groups I've heard about. I don't have the time to hunt down the specific news reports. I don't know what other groups may be participating. And it's not like the OWS movement has an exact membership list we can check either.


The entire OWS model is Leftist all the way down to the General Assembly. Every sign being held, every position being asserted. I challenge you to show me a legit OWS protester that is not on the Left.

Here is a picture of anarchists at Occupy D.C.

OWS%u00252BAnarchists%2Bat%2BOWS%2BDC%2B11-5-11.jpg

It was found at the following conservative blog:
NebraskAttitude: Anarchists at Occupy D.C.

Anarchism is not a leftist philosophy.
 
I know that anarchists are a part of the OWS because I heard an NPR report about someone who worked on Wall Street talk to a group of anarchists attending the NYC protests so he could learn a bit about anarchism and so he could teach a bit about Wall Street to anarchists.

I know that socialists are a part of OWS because I've seen interviews of OWS protest that widening wealth gap and advocating redistribution of wealth to end it.

I know that the elderly are a part of OWS because I've seen them participate in news reports.

I know that young college students are a part of OWS because I've seen them interviewed by on news reports.

Those are the only broad groups I've mentioned because those are the only groups I've heard about. I don't have the time to hunt down the specific news reports. I don't know what other groups may be participating. And it's not like the OWS movement has an exact membership list we can check either.
So those are the main groups involved in OWS?
 
It depends on what type of Anarchism.

Well, the very term "anarchism" comes from the Greek words for "without leaders" which equate to "without government."

And leftist philosophies have always been accused by conservatives for using big government policies.

So I don't see how it's possible to lump those who are against all forms of government into a political wing that favors large government powers.
 
Well, the very term "anarchism" comes from the Greek words for "without leaders" which equate to "without government."

And leftist philosophies have always been accused by conservatives for using big government policies.

So I don't see how it's possible to lump those who are against all forms of government into a political wing that favors large government powers.

He's actually right about this one:

Anarcho-syndicalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Well, the very term "anarchism" comes from the Greek words for "without leaders" which equate to "without government."

And leftist philosophies have always been accused by conservatives for using big government policies.

So I don't see how it's possible to lump those who are against all forms of government into a political wing that favors large government powers.

Technically he's right. Less government doesn't necessarily equate to right-wing (although that's what many conservatives would prefer to think). You do have both left anarchists (anarcho-syndicalists) and right-anarchists (anarcho-capitalists).
 

Technically he's right. Less government doesn't necessarily equate to right-wing (although that's what many conservatives would prefer to think). You do have both left anarchists (anarcho-syndicalists) and right-anarchists (anarcho-capitalists).

Anarcho-syndicalism is still against government.

From the Article said:
Additionally, anarcho-syndicalists regard the state as a profoundly anti-worker institution. They view the primary purpose of the state as being the defence of private property and therefore of economic, social and political privilege, even when such defence denies its citizens the ability to enjoy material independence and the social autonomy which springs from it.[SUP][3][/SUP] In contrast to other bodies of thought (Marxism-Leninism being a prime example), anarcho-syndicalists deny that there can be any kind of workers' state, or a state which acts in the interests of workers, as opposed to those of the powerful. Reflecting the anarchist philosophy from which it draws its primary inspiration, anarcho-syndicalism holds to the idea that power corrupts.[SUP][4][/SUP].

So anarcho-syndicalists and anarcho-capitalists are still against government institutions. Where they differ, however, is how economic institutions should be organized.
 
That whistling you hear is the point whizzing over your head, but I suppose I can play your game too. The TEA party is no more racist than the fleabaggers are anti-Semetic.

I have no idea why you think the fleabaggers are anti-semitic :shrug:

but I do think it's funny that you only hear the whistle of bullets going over other peoples head and not yours
 
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Anarcho-syndicalism is still against government.



So anarcho-syndicalists and anarcho-capitalists are still against government institutions, for a variety of reasons. Where they differ, however, is how economic institutions should be organized.

Right. My point was, however, that anarcho-syndicalism is considered left anarchism, not right-wing. Which is to say, once again, that "less/no government" doesn't always equal "more right-wing." So FFA is right when he says "it depends on what kind of anarchism."
 
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Right. My point was, however, that anarcho-syndicalism is considered left anarchism, not right-wing. Which is to say, once again, that "less/no government" doesn't always equal "more right-wing." So FFA is right when he says "it depends on what kind of anarchism."

Or the left-wing/right-wing dichotomy is such an inaccurate means of judging political philosophies and movements that we should shoot it point blank with a shotgun and bury it.
 
Or the left-wing/right-wing dichotomy is such an inaccurate means of judging political philosophies and movements that we should shoot it point blank with a shotgun and bury it.

Well, the terms are pretty subjective, that's for sure. Nevertheless the general consensus is that there are different strains of anarchism and that anarchism as a whole is not exclusive to the left or the right.
 
Well, the problems that I see are not the same as what OWS protests against. I guess the difference is, I don't resent someone else's financial success and I don't feel entitled to part of it.

Some of the OWS protestors agree with you about that

DSC_00371.jpg


Does this mean you're an anti-capitalist?
 
What's also not particularly useful is a complete lack of recognition or concern that OWS just might be, at least in part, responsible for how they're perceived.

What's also not particularly useful is a complete lack of recognition or concern that you just might be, at least in part, responsible for how you perceive OWS
 
I should say this. OWS is generally perceived as being a leftist movement, and I believe that it is in large part. However, you'll also have a smattering of Ron Paul "end the Fed" guys here and there. This is where OWS and the more libertarian Tea Party types overlap. They are both extremely populist, and it's not corporations vs. government, it's both.

Admittedly though I know many left libertarians and left anarchists who support Paul, so maybe that's not the BEST indication that there are non-leftists within the ranks, but who knows. I know for a fact that I'm too lazy to even get up and join those folks protesting.
 
Those are the type of thing that make up an platform. Are political parties not unified because they have multiple ideals that they promote?

BTW correction the protesters are not the 99% they are only a portion of the 99%. More specifically the protesters are from the Left. Prove me wrong but there is no one on the Right that supports the occupy movement.

OWS includes many rightwing Ron Paul supporters
 
Ok you keep saying that OWS is made up of different groups. please show me who they are. Give me some links.


The entire OWS model is Leftist all the way down to the General Assembly. Every sign being held, every position being asserted. I challenge you to show me a legit OWS protester that is not on the Left.

Challenge made...Challenge met
DSC_00371.jpg


Politics
According to a Pew Research Center/Washington Post. Oct. 20-23, 19% of republicans asked said they agree with OWS
 
Well, the very term "anarchism" comes from the Greek words for "without leaders" which equate to "without government."

And leftist philosophies have always been accused by conservatives for using big government policies.

So I don't see how it's possible to lump those who are against all forms of government into a political wing that favors large government powers.

I think that you need to do some research on type of Anarchism. When you watch vids of the protesters you will notice some people with things like mohawks colored hair tats etc. These people are what is known as Anarcho-Punks. Many Anarcho punks are Anarcho Communists. True Communism is the opposite of Anarchy at least if we were talking about purest Anarchy and we are not. Here is their symbol:

257px-Anarchist-Communist_Symbol.jpg
 
I think that they are pro-capitalism and anti-Corporatism. Corporatism or as Mussolini stated is better known as Fascism. It is the Corporate driver that can initiate wars for resources and profit that resides here. Wars for Big Energy and the status quo of big money. The people who profit from war, ergo are constantly ginning up wars. That'd be Corporations here in the USA. I mean, it's about profit, black and white numbers, the bottom line, and by Corporate personhood that does not live and breathe, so don't worry about the pollution either.

Yeah, yeah, all corporations are bad, we all knew that
 
No, and asking irrelevant questions doesn't hide the fail

How astute of you. Were the Ron Paul supporters participating in the General Assemblies? Or were they standing to the side holding signs? Are there any recent photos of the Right wingers at any of the protests. And were they showing support or being opportunistic?. But none the less it just proves that the majority of the protesters and supporters of OWS are Left wing of some sort.
 
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Unregulated capitalism, yes. Regulated capitalism, no.

OWS, in my opinion, seems to promote a mixture of regulated capitalism and socialism. They seem to think that corporations should not have influence in public policy and that they should follow regulation in order to prevent economic disasters like the one we have been experiencing. Welfare is a socialist policy, but OWS doesn't seem to want to eliminate all corporations and free trade.

A well reasoned perspective. We can always use more of those. Welcome to the forum!
 
How astute of you. Were the Ron Paul supporters participating in the General Assemblies? Or were they standing to the side holding signs? Are there any recent photos of the Right wingers at any of the protests. And were they showing support or being opportunistic?. But none the less it just proves that the majority of the protesters and supporters of OWS are Left wing of some sort.

Yes and the questions you go on to ask are not mutually exclusive. This may surprise you, but Ron Paul supporters can participate in GA's *AND* hold signs. And as I pointed out, 19% of republicans say they support OWS
 
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