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Boys Swimming on Girls Teams Find Success, Then Draw Jeers

Should sports be segregated by gender?

  • I feel there's no need to seperate genders, let them play co-ed

    Votes: 4 7.8%

  • Boys should play with boys, and girls with girls

    Votes: 20 39.2%

  • It depends on the sport

    Votes: 22 43.1%

  • other

    Votes: 5 9.8%
  • Total voters
    51
StillBallin75 said:
Oh, I didn't know that. Well in that case I don't see what the BFD is, kid just wanted to swim.
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If they had two categories I wonder how many other guys would join. I think the guys by this time (30 years) have proven that they deserve at least that much and are worthy of the time and money for one.
 
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liblady said:
i think you missed my point. males are inherently better at some things than are females, and females are inherently better at some things than are males. we should stop making such a big deal of it. no, boys and girls do not need to compete against each other, it's really kinda stupid. for example, who wants to watch a woman play a men's golf tournament and get the crap kicked out of her? what's her point?
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a rare instance in which we disagree
title IX was intended to allow female students access to sporting activities which had historically not been girl friendly. it prevented society from formally discriminating against female students because of their gender

look at Mina Johnson:
Girl football player sits out game after foe threatens forfeit in Sports & Training Forum

she is entitled to play football. and apparently she is playing at a high level ... her team was kicking ass
but for title IX she would not be able to play

this matter cuts both ways. if the girls can suit up and play with the boys then the boys should be able to undress and swim with the girls. or should they be discriminated against because of their male gender?



that said, my son and i would have a very long talk if he decided he wanted to play a girl's sport
but i also required my daughter to play in the boys basketball league when she first started out so that she was able to learn how to play competitively
so, yes, i have to acknowledge my personal hypocrisy
 
In my HS track team, the team was co-ed, but the heats weren't. How is a swim team any different? And aren't swim meets usually made up of several teams? So it's not like one team having a shortage of guys is going to drastically reduce the number of heats.

Seriously, I have no idea why this is difficult at all to sort out.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
In the article it points out that the boys have been competing with the girls since 1980 - and no one noticed because they weren't winning records for all this time until now.

Maybe gender isn't the way to go for categories at all anymore, then - maybe they should rely on qualifying times . . . and blend all the categories based on that. The 'slow' racers - the 'medium' racers and the 'faster' racers since - apparently - not all boys are physically stronger and not all girls are physically weaker. . . improve your ability and go into the next category.

This has sort of made me reconsider how we determine who's in and who's out.
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this is one of the things that has always ticked me off about the military physical fitness test. I am nearly 50 years old, to get the same score as a female my own age, I must do 2.5 times as many push ups and complete the aerobic event much faster. so, even though I am much stronger and much faster, when evaluation time comes around and they look at our PT scores....we are considered "equal".


my daughter, who is 25, is in our unit. we have been doing PT together since she was in HS. on our last PT test we did the same number of pushups and situps and we finished the aerobic event together.

my score = 201/300
her score = 273/300
 
justabubba said:
a rare instance in which we disagree
title IX was intended to allow female students access to sporting activities which had historically not been girl friendly. it prevented society from formally discriminating against female students because of their gender

look at Mina Johnson:
Girl football player sits out game after foe threatens forfeit in Sports & Training Forum

she is entitled to play football. and apparently she is playing at a high level ... her team was kicking ass
but for title IX she would not be able to play

this matter cuts both ways. if the girls can suit up and play with the boys then the boys should be able to undress and swim with the girls. or should they be discriminated against because of their male gender?



that said, my son and i would have a very long talk if he decided he wanted to play a girl's sport
but i also required my daughter to play in the boys basketball league when she first started out so that she was able to learn how to play competitively
so, yes, i have to acknowledge my personal hypocrisy
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Well - what sports, per say, are 'girl sports' - Cheerleading is the only thing that comes to mind - but guys on teams is a necessity as how they have to toss and catch. Upskirt all day? **** - guys should line up for that :D

The problem we're touching on, here - is that most sports have always been dominated by males. When girls have wanted to join there's usually no team (so they have to join the guy's team) or she just wants to play with the guys.

If they've been willing to form girls teams in every sport to accommodate our growing interest in participation then they should do the same for the guys. I'm quite surprised that they didn't already have a guy's team for them to be on.

OscarB63 said:
this is one of the things that has always ticked me off about the military physical fitness test. I am nearly 50 years old, to get the same score as a female my own age, I must do 2.5 times as many push ups and complete the aerobic event much faster. so, even though I am much stronger and much faster, when evaluation time comes around and they look at our PT scores....we are considered "equal".


my daughter, who is 25, is in our unit. we have been doing PT together since she was in HS. on our last PT test we did the same number of pushups and situps and we finished the aerobic event together.

my score = 201/300
her score = 273/300
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I oppose their gender-differences standard ruling(s) as well. I think women should be held to the same standards as men are. . . which would equate in less females - but they'd be better than the present day female lot.

Military isn't the place to cut slack and cowtow because of gender differences. . .females can still find their selves in front-line environments and thus should not EVER be a hindrance or burden if it's going to happen.
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
If they had two categories I wonder how many other guys would join. I think the guys by this time (30 years) have proven that they deserve at least that much and are worthy of the time and money for one.
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that's what I don't get, they already have a girls team. which means they are already footing the bill for facilities and coaching. how much more could it possibly cost the school to add a boys team? speedos are not that expensive :shrug:
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Considered - but it wasn't a natural fact. Just like saying "all blacks are stupid" - when they've proven quite the opposite.
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I know. But suppose we found some physiological brain difference between males and females that made them different, like say we found that women have a smaller part of the brain for math, but a larger one for language? That's a physical difference, like athleticism, remember. Would that justify some policy keeping women out of math and men out of English, or whatever?

(I am being devil's advocate here).

But we're not talking about stereotypes and prejudices. . . we're talking about the recognition of physical attributes - which are different. It's a natural fact and only the more extreme 'femme nazi' types try to argue and prove otherwise.
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Well, you still have a problem, because while men and women are different in general, some women might be able to compete on the same level in some ways. And you don't know until you let
them.

Every personal-competition sport has gender-categories . . . they just need to catch up with the times.
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Some have both. I think maybe we should have both gender and mixed competitions. See what happens.
 
OscarB63 said:
this is one of the things that has always ticked me off about the military physical fitness test. I am nearly 50 years old, to get the same score as a female my own age, I must do 2.5 times as many push ups and complete the aerobic event much faster. so, even though I am much stronger and much faster, when evaluation time comes around and they look at our PT scores....we are considered "equal".
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Huh? You're complaining that a male has to do more? It thought males were athletically superior?

Or are you talking about age? Don't get the two mixed up now.
 
OscarB63 said:
that's what I don't get, they already have a girls team. which means they are already footing the bill for facilities and coaching. how much more could it possibly cost the school to add a boys team? speedos are not that expensive :shrug:
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Yeah - there's no reason for this at all. This has just drawn attention to the fact that the school is being stubborn for no real reason.

misterman said:
Huh? You're complaining that a male has to do more? It thought males were athletically superior?

Or are you talking about age? Don't get the two mixed up now.
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No - he's pointing out that woman CAN and SHOULD be held to the SAME military standard - and I agree.
 
misterman said:
Huh? You're complaining that a male has to do more? It thought males were athletically superior?

Or are you talking about age? Don't get the two mixed up now.
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It's both. don't squeal we are equal and then expect me to do more. If I have to do more to get the same score....we are not equal
 
OscarB63 said:
It's both. don't squeal we are equal and then expect me to do more. If I have to do more to get the same score....we are not equal
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Well - technically: the men's standards were set first and women were expected to do less. They should never have set those differential-provisions.
 
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Should sports be segregated by gender?

I think it should depend on the sport because of the fact men are generally stronger and can take more abuse than women.
 
Tigger said:
In wrestling and soccer I'd agree; but Football is the one place where I have had the opportunity to see a female high school athlete compete with the boys, and it was not pleasant for her. My Junior year in high school we scrimmaged against another local school that had a young lady playing Offensive Tackle. She had long hair, was wearing makeup, and let's just say that her uniform/pads did little to hide her "upper body assets". The boys playing defensive line in the first half of that game took great delight in abusing her (even I'll admit it was a bit over the top). They were grabbing her hair as they went past her on rushes. They were making sure that their hands found certain "assets" when engaged on blocks by her. At halftime she QUIT because of the abuse.
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And where was the boys team football coach, during the time this crap was going on ???
Boys will be boys, but men MUST act as men !
 
jamesrage said:
Should sports be segregated by gender?

I think it should depend on the sport because of the fact men are generally stronger and can take more abuse than women.
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I'm starting to question that - because guys have been on the girls' 'team' in competition since 1980 (per the article) and they're just now winning . . . I use to always assume guys were predominately physically superior (a small % weren't, maybe - just as a small % of women are actually physically superior to men) - but I guess not.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Well - technically: the men's standards were set first and women were expected to do less. They should never have set those differential-provisions.
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smeggin hell... don't go all mistermister on me. ;) whether you say that I have to do more to be considered "equal" to a female who is half my age or a female half my age has to do less to be considered "equal" to me is irrelevent.
:lamo

poe tay toe -v- poe tah toe ...it still tastes like Spud
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
I'm starting to question that - because guys have been on the girls' 'team' in competition since 1980 (per the article) and they're just now winning . . . I use to always assume guys were predominately physically superior (a small % weren't, maybe - just as a small % of women are actually physically superior to men) - but I guess not.
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you have to consider that, in swimming, the guys generally have wider shoulders and therefore create more drag that must be over come and they have a higher body mass that they have to pull through the water. and, as we all know...water is much less forgiving than is air.
 
jamesrage said:
Should sports be segregated by gender?

I think it should depend on the sport because of the fact men are generally stronger and can take more abuse than women.
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If you know the first thing about anatomy, you would know that this is NOT TRUE.
But, if a girl wishes to compete on a boys team, then they must use the same same shower...
That will put and end to this foolishness,,, I think......lol
 
earthworm said:
If you know the first thing about anatomy, you would know that this is NOT TRUE.
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males generally have thicker bones and more muscle mass. now if we are talking about tolerance for pain...you may have a point.
 
OscarB63 said:
you have to consider that, in swimming, the guys generally have wider shoulders and therefore create more drag that must be
over come and they have a higher body mass that they have to pull through the water. and, as we all know...water is much less forgiving than is air.
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Well: I can't swim well so I really don't know :)

OscarB63 said:
males generally have thicker bones and more muscle mass. now if we are talking about tolerance for pain...you may have a point.
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That's what I always believe - I was curious about that - so I read this article - yeah, it verifies what we all knew.
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=51160

My only thought was to this:
Those findings actually prompt as many questions as they answer. For instance, researchers want to know, what role does a woman's menstrual cycle play in her perception of pain? It must play some part, says Sherry Marts, scientific director for the Society for Women's Health Research in Washington, D.C. For example, she says, women know not to get their legs waxed right before their period because it is much more painful than at other times in their cycle.
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WTF? Women 'know how to wax before they're on the rag because it's more painful' - **** - the pain fairy didn't tell me that. News to me - science failed to inform, I'm suing.
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
No - he's pointing out that woman CAN and SHOULD be held to the SAME military standard - and I agree.
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Okay, I see that. But that's inconsistent with his views (as I recall them, I may be wrong) about athletics. Perhaps he should be calling for having two armies, one for men and one for women. Or perhaps military standards are irrelevant to this discussion.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Well - technically: the men's standards were set first and women were expected to do less. They should never have set those differential-provisions.
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Agree. In the military, the standards should be equal. Or perhaps they should be set according to the specific job.
 
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