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21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

Should an applicants race be a deciding factor for admission to a university?

  • Total voters
    68
  • Poll closed .
Sig said:
No, you could not "potentially choose either student." One student's application is bumped up for no other reason than his race.
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In your hypothetical, you're describing a practice that has been phased out.

Your hypothetical is limited and not related to any current practice.

Posters are therefore obliged to MODIFY IT as they see fit to make it more realistic.

Message to sig, from sig:

get lost.
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Sig said:
Both kids are NOT admitted in this scenario. Despite his obvious socioeconomic advantages, one student is granted a leg-up because of his race and the other is not. For the sake of argument, let's assume that the black is not getting a leg-up because the admissions office thinks he'll "add more to the college", but because the admissions office fears that it is missing its "target quota" for black student admissions and may be sued by the NAACP.
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Oh, well I don't support this scenario and I support AA because I don't think most colleges make decisions like this. I don't support quotas, I support choosing students according to what value they will add to the college and this is how I'm quite certain most colleges choose their students.
 
rocket88 said:
Why should socioeconomic handicap trump race?
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Well, for one thing, the welfare class student did not attend one of the best high schools in the state, nor could he afford a private tutor to help him study for the SAT, etc., etc..

Maybe its just me, but it seems like the handicap should go to the student who enjoyed less advantages.

What say you?
 
Sig said:
Well, for one thing, the welfare class student did not attend one of the best high schools in the state, nor could he afford a private tutor to help him study for the SAT, etc., etc..

Maybe its just me, but it seems like the handicap should go to the student who enjoyed less advantages.

What say you?
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I would agree, but that's just AA based on economics instead of race. Some people would call that class warfare.
 
theplaydrive said:
Oh, well I don't support this scenario and I support AA because I don't think most colleges make decisions like this. I don't support quotas, I support choosing students according to what value they will add to the college and this is how I'm quite certain most colleges choose their students.
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In my scenario, the poor white kid who didn't get into the University sees it as racism because his blue collar father is a racist. The kid bitches and moans and forgets that he gets to save a bundle going to the great community college down the street then transfer to that 4-year school. The kid builds up so much resentment, it consumes him and he secretly harbors hatred towards all blacks. He gets a job as a mall cop and ends up getting faired for pepper spraying an underage black girl. He becomes an alcoholic like his pops and never amounts to anything. He blames his miserable life on the black kid who go into the four year school and all the racists in the administration.
 
theplaydrive said:
Oh, well I don't support this scenario and I support AA because I don't think most colleges make decisions like this. I don't support quotas, I support choosing students according to what value they will add to the college and this is how I'm quite certain most colleges choose their students.
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Of course, you are aware of the Gratz v. Bollinger case where the University of Michigan was awarding a 20 point bump for being black and only a 12 point bump for getting a perfect score on the SAT.

Fortunately, the U of M was taken to task for such blatant racial discrimination. Still, one can only imagine what sort of AA/EO policies other colleges and universities have employed with their admissions processes, and may continue to employ.
 
hazlnut said:
In my scenario, the poor white kid who didn't get into the University sees it as racism because his blue collar father is a racist. The kid bitches and moans and forgets that he gets to save a bundle going to the great community college down the street then transfer to that 4-year school. The kid builds up so much resentment, it consumes him and he secretly harbors hatred towards all blacks. He gets a job as a mall cop and ends up getting faired for pepper spraying an underage black girl. He becomes an alcoholic like his pops and never amounts to anything. He blames his miserable life on the black kid who go into the four year school and all the racists in the administration.
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This is pretty much the background of many racists. They blame some failure on a minority and then scapegoat that minority for the rest of their lives. There was actually a kid at my high school (not poor, rich actually) who didn't get into Northwestern University. His explanation for why he didn't get in, "Some black kid took my spot". I anticipate that he is going to harbor some of that racial animosity and it's too bad, since his dream is to become a Senator.
 
Anybody who wants to go to college can. Many community/junior colleges have open enrollment and also partnerships with major universities that guarantee admittance to the larger school if the student maintains the required GPA. So it's a matter of work and of will.
 
rocket88 said:
I would agree, but that's just AA based on economics instead of race. Some people would call that class warfare.
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Others would call it leveling the playing field.
 
Sig said:
Still, one can only imagine what sort of AA/EO policies other colleges and universities have employed with their admissions processes, and may continue to employ.
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Yes, you have quite an imagination. There are all kinds of forces working against you and all white people.
 
Sig said:
Of course, you are aware of the Gratz v. Bollinger case where the University of Michigan was awarding a 20 point bump for being black and only a 12 point bump for getting a perfect score on the SAT.

Fortunately, the U of M was taken to task for such blatant racial discrimination. Still, one can only imagine what sort of AA/EO policies other colleges and universities have employed with their admissions processes, and may continue to employ.
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I can't comment on how widespread that scenario is since neither you nor I have any clue. However, I know that I went to a school that presumably uses AA and the quality of students was overwhelmingly exceptional (not just in grades, but in quality of thought and intelligence). There were some ridiculous people there, but they were of all races, backgrounds, religions, etc.. My college experience made it clear that AA is not the evil some make it out to be.
 
nota bene said:
Anybody who wants to go to college can. Many community/junior colleges have open enrollment and also partnerships with major universities that guarantee admittance to the larger school if the student maintains the required GPA. So it's a matter of work and of will.
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Thank you, best post of the thread!

The lesson should be, make your own way, build the better mouse trap -- OR -- complain about life not being fair and harbor resentments against people of color.
 
theplaydrive said:
This is pretty much the background of many racists. They blame some failure on a minority and then scapegoat that minority for the rest of their lives. There was actually a kid at my high school (not poor, rich actually) who didn't get into Northwestern University. His explanation for why he didn't get in, "Some black kid took my spot". I anticipate that he is going to harbor some of that racial animosity and it's too bad, since his dream is to become a Senator.
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On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of white students who are unfairly discriminated against by AA policy are never even aware of it.
 
Sig said:
On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of white students who are unfairly discriminated against by AA policy are never even aware of it.
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Because they applied to more than one school...

Or because it didn't really happen...
 
Sig said:
On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of white students who are unfairly discriminated against by AA policy are never even aware of it.
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The overwhelming majority? I'd like to see something to back that up.
 
theplaydrive said:
I can't comment on how widespread that scenario is since neither you nor I have any clue. However, I know that I went to a school that presumably uses AA and the quality of students was overwhelmingly exceptional (not just in grades, but in quality of thought and intelligence). There were some ridiculous people there, but they were of all races, backgrounds, religions, etc.. My college experience made it clear that AA is not the evil some make it out to be.
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Then again, by your own admission, you haven't got a clue.

Think about this, as more and more minorities find their way into the upper tiers of the socioeconomic hierarchy, due to effectiveness of AA/EO policy over the years, such policy will have to shift toward socioeconomic status as the primary factor of consideration. Otherwise, AA/EO will increasingly degenerate from a solution into a problem.
 
Sig said:
Then again, by your own admission, you haven't got a clue.
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He answered every question and addressed your extreme hypotheticals.

You have no present one shred of evidence about current practices.

You run your mouth, demanding that people answer your loaded questions, then declare them ignorant because they don't share your paranoid world view.

You have shown yourself to unwilling to discuss this logically and worn out your welcome in this thread.
 
Sig said:
Then again, by your own admission, you haven't got a clue.

Think about this, as more and more minorities find their way into the upper tiers of the socioeconomic hierarchy, due to effectiveness of AA/EO policy over the years, such policy will have to shift toward socioeconomic status as the primary factor of consideration. Otherwise, AA/EO will increasingly degenerate from a solution into a problem.
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By my own admission, I've a certain experience with AA and I understand that colleges want to add students . Making arguments based on my own experiences and understanding of the college admissions process is certainly having a clue. You, on the other hand, have set up this ridiculous scenarios where we're deciding between two students and who gets in is simply a matter of race or money. That's rarely, if ever, how the college admissions process works.
 
theplaydrive said:
By my own admission, I've a certain experience with AA and I understand that colleges want to add students . Making arguments based on my own experiences and understanding of the college admissions process is certainly having a clue. You, on the other hand, have set up this ridiculous scenarios where we're deciding between two students and who gets in is simply a matter of race or money. That's rarely, if ever, how the college admissions process works.
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No, no... that is not what you said. What you said was:

"I can't comment on how widespread that scenario is since neither you nor I have any clue."

Excluding your ridiculous assumption in regards to what clues I have or do not have, I shall take you on your word.

...at least until you contradict yourself.

The fact of the matter is that you do not know, nor could you know, all the varioius techniques and policies colleges and universities use to ensure a racially diverse student body. Indeed, the only knowledge you seem to possess is personal experience.

I am not interested in personal experience. I am interested in policy and the degree to which policy is fair in regards to doling out handicaps for socioeconomic status vis-a-vis handicaps for racial and ethnic inclusion. And, although we have not yet addressed the matter to any serious degree, I am interested in the demographic percentages used to determine the "target quota" for racial diversity at colleges and universities and to what degree such policy is fair and practical.
 
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