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21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

Should an applicants race be a deciding factor for admission to a university?


  • Total voters
    68
  • Poll closed .
I ran across this Columbus Dispatch Newspaper article from Feb2011 at AmRen's website.

Why is "skin color" still a qualifying factor for college admission in the 21st century?

I suspect these policies are a whole lot more wide spread than just Ohio State and Miami universities?

I thought liberals and the democrat party were suppose to be champions of the victims of racism?

This is a yes or no/black or white answer with absolutely no grey area to hide behind.

You either condone and defend racism OR you speak up and publicly denounce it here and now.

I believe it is safe to assume that any poster who is afraid to cast a vote most likely condones racism.

I have chosen the username to register with your vote, option...Lets find out who walks the talk.

I know that such questions are asked more for demographic information - that is keeping track the number of students of different ethnicities applying and so on - rather than the decision making process with regards to admissions.

But with regards to the poll, yes, I do think ethnicity should be a factor with regards to university admissions. I think that those ethnicities with low employment in certain fields should have affirmative action applied so people of those ethnicities can enter those fields. That way, people of all ethnicities will have access to those fields and occupations will be based less on ethnic lines.
 
Me? (I actually surprise myself by this opinion, btw.) I think that until the quota's filled, anyone meeting the requirements of the college who's a member of an under-represented race should be admitted solely on that factor.

Can we go over the quota? What if I wanted to admit 20% black students in the university to apply even more social justice?
 
Are people that meet the requirements denied access normally?

Should somebody that meets the requirements of the college, but are of a race that is plentiful at the college, be denied admittence?

Frequently, a college will have to make decisions based on space. Especially for higher status colleges. So they may be forced to pick one student over another when they are both qualified. It can get real tricky when it's down to the last few spots to say who gets in and who doesn't

Grades are often a bad indicator of who will or won't succeed in college. Just because some white kid got OK grades at some suburban school and a black kid got slightly worse grades at an inner city school doesn't mean the white kid is smarter, or more likely to succeed. That's an overgeneralization, but the basics are true. If I had a nickel for every white kid who graduated from what's supposed to be a good public school, but still doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're"...well I'd have a lot more money, that's for sure.
 
My views on Affirmative Action summarized.

 
Affirmative action may be discrimination based on race, but it is not racism.

Just as Irish, Italian, German, or Israeli citizenship & immigration policies favoring people of certain ancestries & religions over others, is also not racism or ethinic or religious bigotry.

This is nonsense. Do you know the definition of racism? A policy favoring one made up race group over another IS in fact racist as it's based on nothing other than prejudice.
 
This is nonsense. Do you know the definition of racism? A policy favoring one made up race group over another IS in fact racist as it's based on nothing other than prejudice.

do you consider immigration & citizenship policies that favor the descendants of former citizens, to be "racist"?
 
The idea behind Affirmative Action is not to give minorities an unfair advantage. Instead, it is meant to correct for a deficiency in the human condition. Basically, humans instinctively tend to associate more with those that look like them. This is true regardless of whether you are talking about a modern industrialized society or a primitive hunter gatherer society. This tendency in and of itself is not rooted in racism, but rather its instinctual. If you are hiring someone you will tend to subconsciously give preference to those that look like you unless you consciously override that instinctual preference.

When Affirmative Action was first implemented, the vast majority of hiring managers and college admissions personnel were white. This resulted in minorities being either willfully (as in the case of racism), or subconsciously (as in the case of instinctual preference), being discriminated against in terms of hiring and college admissions. The role of Affirmative Action was to counter that.

That all said, hiring managers and college admissions personnel are much more diverse today and much more conscious of having a diverse college or workplace, thus there is not the kind of need for Affirmative Action today as there was 30 years ago. The issue today is more of wealthy students getting preference over poorer students, and affirmative action laws should be modified to reflect this.
 
This is nonsense. Do you know the definition of racism? A policy favoring one made up race group over another IS in fact racist as it's based on nothing other than prejudice.

Interesting. Respectfully, are you playing Devil's Advocate? If not then cool. I know of very few liberals who share that view.
 
the ones who vote 'yes' should learn something about justice and humanity..
 
do you consider immigration & citizenship policies that favor the descendants of former citizens, to be "racist"?

You're being dishonestly light footed around your question. Do I consider immigration/citizenship policies that favor one "race" over another to be racist? Yes. That's the textbook definition of racism. If the US did not allow Indians to come in the US so that the Irish could come over, would that be racist? Yes. If they barred the Irish for coming so that Indians could instead? The same. So what is your real question? Does Israel favoring Jews for immigration count as racism? Yes. If Ireland, Germany or whomever are doing it with their own citizens? The answer remains the same.
 
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The idea behind Affirmative Action is not to give minorities an unfair advantage. Instead, it is meant to correct for a deficiency in the human condition. Basically, humans instinctively tend to associate more with those that look like them.

Actually, I don't think that's true, or at least with regards to affirmative action.

Rather, I think that the corporate culture and attitude, or the lack thereof, is taught more by parents than anything else.

For example, I have a best friend from college who is African-American/Latino. He is a computer software engineer and he works for a university. He is rather high up in his department and is so necessary to the running of that university that the budget from other departments is used to help make up his salary. One reason for this is because his mother is an anesthesiologist and ingrained in him at a young age the mentality needed to work in a professional environment like that in order to get very far ahead, which she was able to learn as an anesthesiologist working in hospitals.

On the other hand I have a friend from Georgia who is white and a farmer. As was his father and his grandfather. He knows nothing about what would be expected of him in a corporate environment since the skills necessary for farm work are different, and he makes less money working for his family's farm.

So I think that a very big aspect of that kind of thing is learned from parents. And if people of certain ethnicities are not given the chance to enter fields then they never will because their children will never get exposed to those fields or learn what is expected of them when they try to enter those fields.
 
I voted "Yes." I think affirmative action programs in colleges are extremely valuable...it should extend to scholarship awards and admissions. Look, we continue to under-educate blacks and hispanics. The least we can do is not fail them at the university/college level. I'm all for college populations being made up of the same racial percentages as our country. In the case of blacks, it'd 12.4% (as of the 2000 census).

And what happens when your son or daughter gets passed over?
 
maggie makes me surprised..
 
And what happens when your son or daughter gets passed over?

Well, if you just "try hard enough," you should be able to overcome any supposed disadvantages thrown your way, ain't that right? Ain't that what conservatives always say?

Most folks on this board know that I'm Asian-American. I am ****ing blessed to be from an upper middle-class socioeconomic background. Asian-Americans are probably the group most disadvantaged by affirmative action. But you know what? I don't five a flying ****. My race wasn't enslaved for hundreds of years. My race isn't just pulling its ass out of the ditch that was Jim Crow. My race isn't being stopped for driving while black, and my race isn't the one that's being ghettoized, living in ****ty neighborhoods, and facing housing discrimination. (and if you don't believe me on any of these, the sociological data is out there. Just look for it.) I mean, ****, we have it pretty ****ing good in this country!

So I'm sick of white folks whining and bitching about affirmative action (aka "reverse racism") while failing to acknowledge the existence of white privilege - which is affirmative action for white folks by default. And believe me, it exists. It's just a lot less noticeable when you're white.

Not to mention people focus too much on college admission and job hiring policies - when what affirmative action REALLY refers to is stuff like outreach programs, building better schools in impoverished neighborhoods, job training programs, etc. Nobody ever focuses on that stuff because that stuff doesn't get people riled up. But that's what the meat of affirmative action policies have comprised since the 60s, the hiring/college admissions/quota part is only a small part of what affirmative action policies really are.
 
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I can't disagree with you more. Race should not be a factor to consider when evaluating college applications.

The fact that the fed govt uses racist policies to fill positions is beyond deplorable. I was talking about private businesses...should they be required to have a workforce identical to the demographics of the country? If so, we no longer live in a free country.

The public sector practices affirmative action both in its employee base and those it does business with. While I can't find a link re private business and affirmative action, my gut tells me it's practiced by the Fortune 500 every day of the week.

Experience does matter, but my degree from Boston University opens me up to more chanes to get that experience. But it also makes a difference when applying to other schools. My 3.3 from BU looks better than my friends 3.3.

Does it depend where the boss went to school? ;)

And what happens when your son or daughter gets passed over?

There are other schools. Our country doesn't expect its leaders to make decisions for the country based on what they would wish for their children. (I'm not a leader, but I think you get my point.)

maggie makes me surprised..

Then my work here is done.
 
Does it depend where the boss went to school? ;)

Yep. If he was from BC (And then I would question who put him in charge of anything) I could have 5 degrees with a 4.0 in each and still wouldn't get hired.
 
Well, if you just "try hard enough," you should be able to overcome any supposed disadvantages thrown your way, ain't that right? Ain't that what conservatives always say?

Most folks on this board know that I'm Asian-American. I am ****ing blessed to be from an upper middle-class socioeconomic background. Asian-Americans are probably the group most disadvantaged by affirmative action. But you know what? I don't five a flying ****. My race wasn't enslaved for hundreds of years. My race isn't just pulling its ass out of the ditch that was Jim Crow. My race isn't being stopped for driving while black, and my race isn't the one that's being ghettoized, living in ****ty neighborhoods, and facing housing discrimination. (and if you don't believe me on any of these, the sociological data is out there. Just look for it.) I mean, ****, we have it pretty ****ing good in this country!

So I'm sick of white folks whining and bitching about affirmative action (aka "reverse racism") while failing to acknowledge the existence of white privilege - which is affirmative action for white folks by default. And believe me, it exists. It's just a lot less noticeable when you're white.

Not to mention people focus too much on college admission and job hiring policies - when what affirmative action REALLY refers to is stuff like outreach programs, building better schools in impoverished neighborhoods, job training programs, etc. Nobody ever focuses on that stuff because that stuff doesn't get people riled up. But that's what the meat of affirmative action policies have comprised since the 60s, the hiring/college admissions/quota part is only a small part of what affirmative action policies really are.

Bodi just got bitch slapped and liked it... :)
 
Heh, sorry Bodhi you know I love you bro. The rant wasn't directed at you in particular, just something I've been meaning to get off my chest.

All good. Well said and while I disagree with AA in premise, I think that it is probably the best course of action overall for the reasons that you just stated.
 
All good. Well said and while I disagree with AA in premise, I think that it is probably the best course of action overall for the reasons that you just stated.

Me too. I don't entirely agree with AA in particular either when it comes to quotas and extra points on college admissions and stuff, but I just think folks who are whining about "reverse racism" are kinda overstating their case.

I will make these two points:

1) affirmative action policies in practice have benefited white females more than any other group - something not a lot of folks know. So it doesn't even begin to solve the problems related to black and Latino communities. However,

2) The evidence shows that blacks and Latino/Hispanics who have been products of AA policies on average go on to do just as well or even better through college - in terms of grades and achievement - compared to their non-minority counterparts.

Just some food for thought.
 
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Me too. I don't entirely agree with AA in particular either when it comes to quotas and extra points on college admissions and stuff, but I just think folks who are whining about "reverse racism" are kinda overstating their case.

I will make these two points:

1) affirmative action policies in practice have benefited white females more than any other group - something not a lot of folks know. So it doesn't even begin to solve the problems related to black and Latino communities. However,

2) The evidence shows that blacks and Latino/Hispanics that have been products of AA policies on average go on to do just as well or even better through college - in terms of grades and achievement - compared to their non-minority counterparts.

Just some food for thought.

Point 1 is a very true aspect and something that, as you said, is not well advertised.

It is my hope that one day such policies will no longer be needed.
 
I voted "Yes." I think affirmative action programs in colleges are extremely valuable...it should extend to scholarship awards and admissions. Look, we continue to under-educate blacks and hispanics. The least we can do is not fail them at the university/college level. I'm all for college populations being made up of the same racial percentages as our country. In the case of blacks, it'd 12.4% (as of the 2000 census).

What do we do if they're undereducated though? Give them a college degree anyway? Make them make up for what they should have learned but didn't, thus keeping them in college another year or so longer than others? Surely if they are undereducated, they can't just jump right in. Do we curtail standards, or time in college?

In the end, I think that race is best left out of it. University particularly should be very elitist. Those who can are welcome, those who can't are welcome go elsewhere.
 
What do we do if they're undereducated though? Give them a college degree anyway? Make them make up for what they should have learned but didn't, thus keeping them in college another year or so longer than others? Surely if they are undereducated, they can't just jump right in. Do we curtail standards, or time in college?

In the end, I think that race is best left out of it. University particularly should be very elitist. Those who can are welcome, those who can't are welcome go elsewhere.

No. I've said at least once that I support it providing they meet minimum standards for entrance. Like if it takes a 3.5 GPA to get into a particular college, and that particular college's make-up is really short on a particular minority, that a student who's a member of that particular minority group with a 3.5 GPA would get in over a WASP with a 3.9.
 
No. I've said at least once that I support it providing they meet minimum standards for entrance. Like if it takes a 3.5 GPA to get into a particular college, and that particular college's make-up is really short on a particular minority, that a student who's a member of that particular minority group with a 3.5 GPA would get in over a WASP with a 3.9.

And if you're talking University level, I would disagree. To the best go the spoils. The one best capable and demonstrating the better drive gets the spot. College and then Community College, maybe less restrictions. If I got turned down for University with my National Honors, superb Math and Science courses, adequate language courses, my near perfect GPA, my perfect ACT, etc. because some dumbass who barely squeaked by the requirements happened to be an underrepresented minority; I'd call bull****. And I'd be right for it.
 
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