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Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?


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Not at all. I never mind seeing a member... even one I often disagree with make a good post. In fact, I rather like seeing things like that. Shows that even folks who can disagree on most things can find some common ground.

I've been drinking tequila all evening, so you could get my agree to damn near anything.

Damn near! :rofl

I'm even pushing Al Swearengen for president. :lamo
 
I've been drinking tequila all evening, so you could get my agree to damn near anything.

Damn near! :rofl

This is quite tempting... OK... can you agree to vote for CaptainCourtesy for President in 2012?

I'm even pushing Al Swearengen for president. :lamo

Who the hell is that?
 
This is an idea I keep hearing thrown about, and was wondering DP's opinion on it.

Would setting term limits for congresspeople (4 for Representatives, 2 for Senators) as well as changing their wage to one in line with the average income of an American citizen help force congress to be more focused on serving the people rather than simply serving themselves? Or would it simply make them more likely to seek out more cash from lobbyists and make it easier to insert shills for a specific group in a race?
I support term limits. Too much of America has already been duped into thinking that parasite lifers are actually skilled politicians with lots & lots of "experience".
 
That's not a problem with the system and no reason to create term limits.

That is a problem with the system. This saying "oh if you don't like someone then just vote them out" is a idiotic idea.The vast majority of voters are politically illiterate.This is why there is there this funnel effect with the presidential elections being the wide part of the funnel and the city council and local school board being the really skinny part of the funnel.Most registered voters only know what the mainstream media chooses to tell them assuming they do not go oh politics who wants to watch this boring **** and changes the channel. So the idea that people who barely pay attention to politics are somehow going to get rid of a dirt bag in office is absurd. This is why there is so much corruption its because most of the registered voters are not paying attention.
 
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That is a problem with the system. This saying "oh if you don't like someone then just vote them out" is a idiotic idea.The vast majority of voters are politically illiterate.

Voters being stupid is not a problem with the system. It's a problem with the voters. The system's fine. Don't like a candidate... vote him out. The problem is that the voters are too apathetic to do the research.

This is why there is there this funnel effect with the presidential elections being the wide part of the funnel and the city council and local school board being the really skinny part of the funnel.Most registered voters only know what the mainstream media chooses to tell them assuming they do not go oh politics who wants to watch this boring **** and changes the channel.

Not a problem with the system. A problem with the media. You're saying "we have a flat tire, so let's fix the engine."
 
That is a problem with the system. This saying "oh if you don't like someone then just vote them out" is a idiotic idea.The vast majority of voters are politically illiterate.This is why there is there this funnel effect with the presidential elections being the wide part of the funnel and the city council and local school board being the really skinny part of the funnel.Most registered voters only know what the mainstream media chooses to tell them assuming they do not go oh politics who wants to watch this boring **** and changes the channel.

Bottom line, dude!

Prime example: a guy I work with, huge Rush hatin' Obama lovin' Democrat and admittedly has never voted in a single election in his life and he's 30 y/o.
 
Why? What reason would a lobbyist have to funnel money to someone who can't run for reelection? And what reason would a politician have to accept a lobbyist's money if they aren't running for reelection?

Those lobbyists are still going to influence politicians during their term, though. And do so to a greater degree since those Congressmen are more naive regarding the influence of lobbyist gifts.

I disagree. It seems to me that the ones who are best in tune with their constituents are the ones who have been in Congress for the least amount of time. The longer they've been there, the more insulated they are, and the more important their DC connections become relative to their local connections.

That's because DC connections ARE more important relative to their local connections. But it also must be understood that while Congressmen are elected to and representing local constituents, they are still making laws that affect the whole nation. Which is why national groups deserve to lobby them.
 
Those lobbyists are still going to influence politicians during their term, though. And do so to a greater degree since those Congressmen are more naive regarding the influence of lobbyist gifts.

I find it highly dubious that lobbyists take advantage of bright-eyed rookies, who eventually become better about steering clear of them. The most corrupt members of Congress tend to be the lifers.

That's because DC connections ARE more important relative to their local connections. But it also must be understood that while Congressmen are elected to and representing local constituents, they are still making laws that affect the whole nation. Which is why national groups deserve to lobby them.

Then your previous point about them getting a feel for the pulse of their constituents is both irrelevant and incorrect, if A) you agree that they build DC connections over time, and B) you think that's a good thing. As for national groups lobbying them, I have no problem with it...if it's of the "we think you should pass H.R. 101 because of X, Y, and Z" rather than "we think you should pass H.R. 101 because it will be good for your reelection campaign funds." The latter situation would be greatly mitigated if congresspeople were term limited.
 
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Voters being stupid is not a problem with the system.

I never said they were stupid. Just ignorant when it comes to politics just like I am ignorant when it comes to World of Nerd Craft,Dungeons and Dragons,Twilight series and Harry Potter.

It's a problem with the voters. The system's fine. Don't like a candidate... vote him out.
Again the vast majority of voters are politically illiterate, So voting them out is not a option.Saying vote them out is like yelling to a crowd of deaf people that they need to immediately do something. Its not going to really do any good.

The problem is that the voters are too apathetic to do the research.

Most likely voters spend their time on other interests, so its not voters being apathetic.


Not a problem with the system. A problem with the media. You're saying "we have a flat tire, so let's fix the engine."

Part of the problem is career politicians who basically owe no allegiance to their constituents.You eliminate career politicians by enacting strict term limits, so you do eliminate part of the problem. You can't force the media to give unbiased political coverage or to make the voters actually informed about all the wrong doings of their elected officials.
 
I never said they were stupid. Just ignorant when it comes to politics just like I am ignorant when it comes to World of Nerd Craft,Dungeons and Dragons,Twilight series and Harry Potter.

Ok. Ignorant.


Again the vast majority of voters are politically illiterate, So voting them out is not a option.Saying vote them out is like yelling to a crowd of deaf people that they need to immediately do something. Its not going to really do any good.

The voters aren't deaf. And again, this is a voter issue, not a system issue.

Most likely voters spend their time on other interests, so its not voters being apathetic.

I disagree. For most people it's apathy, or at the least, comparative apathy.

Part of the problem is career politicians who basically owe no allegiance to their constituents.You eliminate career politicians by enacting strict term limits, so you do eliminate part of the problem. You can't force the media to give unbiased political coverage or to make the voters actually informed about all the wrong doings of their elected officials.

This is not the problem... as you have demonstrated. The problem is voter ignorance. It is the responsibility of the voter to inform themselves on the issues and the candidates... and then vote for whom they feel is best and is consistent with their beliefs. If they do not, that is the problem of the voter. Not the system.
 
Now that I think of it, maybe a series of PSAs(public service announcements) showing bad decisions that low turnout led to over the years would wake some people up. There's only one major catch though, the same people funding PSAs(the National Ad Council) are the same source of funding we are trying to clean up. DOH!
 
I am against term limits and I am against setting the salaries at lower levels than they are today as a means to reduce corruption in congress.

The problem with corruption isn't the length of time in office or the pay, the problem comes from elected politicians having too much power. Take away most of the power and the corruption will recede. I would enact the following changes to reduce the power of those in congress.....

1) ban anything that looks like an earmark. Every single bill should be vetted by the congressional committees and made part of the public record.

2) every bill MUST be made available to the public for a minimum of 72 hours prior to its vote.

3) every tax/fee/surcharge increase must receive a 2/3's majority vote in order to advance.

4) the legislative calendar should be cut down to six months, other than national emergencies.

5) both houses of congress, and the congressional office buildings, should be closed for six months and the elected officials should be required to return to their states and live with the people they are supposed to represent

6) the personal calendars of every elected official should be 100% transparent and a detailed record of what each politicians did on each day should also be 100% transparent........I see absolutely no reason why we the voters do not know what are OUR employees (congress) are doing when they are working on our nickle.

7) every bill should have extensive footnotes for the person or persons that constructed the language in a bill. This means every word should be traced back to a person(s) that proposed the language.

8) ban all paid-for trips for congress. It makes me sick to my stomach when I read about the extensive boondoggles members of congress enjoy. If they need in formation on a specific country, pick up the damn phone or use the computer to talk to knowledgeable people. The notion a member of congress has to fly to Country X (which just so happens to have great beaches or wonderful restaurants or spectacular ski resorts) is BS.

9) there should not be ANY pension benefits for any member of congress

I could add more to this list but will stop here, I need to go string up more xmas lights and try to forget about the massive clusterfork in DC.
 
from conservativeguy

3) every tax/fee/surcharge increase must receive a 2/3's majority vote in order to advance.

While I do feel that some of your proposals have merit,(items 1, 2, 6 and 7) , this one is a complete disaster. I am against giving 34% more power than the 66% have. Imagine leaving a football game where a you boy is all smiles waving a pennant in the air and boasting to his Dad that "we sure beat them today - 66 to 34." Only for the unsmiling papa to inform his progeny that in that league you have to get at least 2/3 of the points before you get the win.

Now explain that to the youth of America and the rest of us while you are at it.
 
Ok. Ignorant.




The voters aren't deaf. And again, this is a voter issue, not a system issue.



I disagree. For most people it's apathy, or at the least, comparative apathy.



This is not the problem... as you have demonstrated. The problem is voter ignorance. It is the responsibility of the voter to inform themselves on the issues and the candidates... and then vote for whom they feel is best and is consistent with their beliefs. If they do not, that is the problem of the voter. Not the system.

Can you honestly sit there and say you can make voters less apathetic and actually care enough to vote out the politicians who are scumbags? You can't heck no one can't so the the solution is term limits. Saying this is merely a voter issue means you want things to continue as they are because both you and I know that the vast majority of registered are ignorant when it comes to politics and those people will continue to vote for the same clowns. Most people who spend time on political forums and and actually look at the candidates might as well be the political versions of trekkie nerds and sports junkies.
 
No !
In order to motivate Congress, we need better congressmen, not the idiots we have now, on both sides.
At one time voters had to face a type of test, and pay a toll tax, good ideas, but criminally misused.
Now, how about an IQ test for congressional candidates ??
 
I am against term limits and I am against setting the salaries at lower levels than they are today as a means to reduce corruption in congress.

The problem with corruption isn't the length of time in office or the pay, the problem comes from elected politicians having too much power. Take away most of the power and the corruption will recede. I would enact the following changes to reduce the power of those in congress.....

1) ban anything that looks like an earmark. Every single bill should be vetted by the congressional committees and made part of the public record.

2) every bill MUST be made available to the public for a minimum of 72 hours prior to its vote.

3) every tax/fee/surcharge increase must receive a 2/3's majority vote in order to advance.

4) the legislative calendar should be cut down to six months, other than national emergencies.

5) both houses of congress, and the congressional office buildings, should be closed for six months and the elected officials should be required to return to their states and live with the people they are supposed to represent

6) the personal calendars of every elected official should be 100% transparent and a detailed record of what each politicians did on each day should also be 100% transparent........I see absolutely no reason why we the voters do not know what are OUR employees (congress) are doing when they are working on our nickle.

7) every bill should have extensive footnotes for the person or persons that constructed the language in a bill. This means every word should be traced back to a person(s) that proposed the language.

8) ban all paid-for trips for congress. It makes me sick to my stomach when I read about the extensive boondoggles members of congress enjoy. If they need in formation on a specific country, pick up the damn phone or use the computer to talk to knowledgeable people. The notion a member of congress has to fly to Country X (which just so happens to have great beaches or wonderful restaurants or spectacular ski resorts) is BS.

9) there should not be ANY pension benefits for any member of congress

I could add more to this list but will stop here, I need to go string up more xmas lights and try to forget about the massive clusterfork in DC.
A whole slew of good ideas, IMO.
Refinement is necessary of course.
 
1) ban anything that looks like an earmark. Every single bill should be vetted by the congressional committees and made part of the public record.

Earmarks go through the same process as any other legislation, and are public.

2) every bill MUST be made available to the public for a minimum of 72 hours prior to its vote.

Just enough to for the public to completely misunderstand what they're reading! ;)

3) every tax/fee/surcharge increase must receive a 2/3's majority vote in order to advance.

No. You can't just declare that it's harder to pass something just because you don't like it.

5) both houses of congress, and the congressional office buildings, should be closed for six months and the elected officials should be required to return to their states and live with the people they are supposed to represent

They spend plenty of time at home mixing with the people. Check the calendar of your rep.

6) the personal calendars of every elected official should be 100% transparent and a detailed record of what each politicians did on each day should also be 100% transparent........I see absolutely no reason why we the voters do not know what are OUR employees (congress) are doing when they are working on our nickle.

I sure do. I don't want them revealing every single thing. I trust them enough to have a few private conversations and meetings.

7) every bill should have extensive footnotes for the person or persons that constructed the language in a bill. This means every word should be traced back to a person(s) that proposed the language.

That's basically how it works when amendments are offered. As for footnotes, come on. Don't use up even more of their time.

8) ban all paid-for trips for congress. It makes me sick to my stomach when I read about the extensive boondoggles members of congress enjoy. If they need in formation on a specific country, pick up the damn phone or use the computer to talk to knowledgeable people. The notion a member of congress has to fly to Country X (which just so happens to have great beaches or wonderful restaurants or spectacular ski resorts) is BS.

Agree. Except sometimes they actually go somewhere worth going, like Iraq or whatever.

9) there should not be ANY pension benefits for any member of congress

They should get the same benefits we all get, including pensions.
 
Campaign and campaign finance reform are musts, right now, the congressmen spend far too much time and money in running for office..
No to term limits, at this time.
Their pay and staffs are too large, as well, IMO...
Anything to curb their "power", even term limits, even if I am against these..
 
Term limits do not bother me. I am good if we have them or if we don't.

However, I do think that a politicians wage should be the average wage of their state X5, coupled with only campaign donations from individuals of $5000 or more, no commercials from outside entities that mention their names positively or negatively, a robust public financing law, no stock market activity, and the politician has to wait 10 years (while still receiving their salary) before doing any sort of private sector work.
 
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from conservativeguy



While I do feel that some of your proposals have merit,(items 1, 2, 6 and 7) , this one is a complete disaster. I am against giving 34% more power than the 66% have. Imagine leaving a football game where a you boy is all smiles waving a pennant in the air and boasting to his Dad that "we sure beat them today - 66 to 34." Only for the unsmiling papa to inform his progeny that in that league you have to get at least 2/3 of the points before you get the win.

Now explain that to the youth of America and the rest of us while you are at it.

Let me suggest that 2/3 majority should also apply to tax cuts.......would that make you feel better? What this proposal would do is bring LONG OVER DUE certainty to everyone and dramatically reduce the power of congress and the corruption.
 
Term limits are most definitely needed.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1059979690 said:
Term limits are most definitely needed.

We already have term limits. Every one of them is limited to one term unless the voters choose to extend it for another term.
 
I want to increase their pay and not add term limits. I would like them to have office space that they are required to use in one government building and, even more off the wall, nice apartments, about 1,600 sq ft, in a complex as required residences when in DC. I have this view because I think their job is difficult to learn. You might think that one gets elected, arrives with a point of view then just votes following his campaign promises. However, just the exception conditions that require the laws to be hundreds of pages long result in the requirement of a staff plus the congress persons developed intellect to find and fix what ‘special interests’ are trying to hide in bills. And there is much more to the job. I think it would take me 4 to 6 years to become fully effective. (I didn't vote, since the voting results are incorrect. We need to have the voting fixed.)
 
This is not the problem... as you have demonstrated. The problem is voter ignorance. It is the responsibility of the voter to inform themselves on the issues and the candidates... and then vote for whom they feel is best and is consistent with their beliefs. If they do not, that is the problem of the voter. Not the system.
My problem is voting according to beliefs. Beliefs generally are not based on facts and are generally not easily modified. In addition they don't keep up with changes. I want voters to understand changes in their situations, what changes are OK and what are not, analyze their current conditions and causality... i.e. think critically, then vote.
 
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