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Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?

  • Yes, they very much represent their complaints & agenda.

    Votes: 11 14.5%

  • They represent some of their complaints & agenda, but also have their own unique/radical ideas.

    Votes: 20 26.3%

  • Not really, their ideas are more represent the complaints & goals of the poor and radicals.

    Votes: 17 22.4%

  • Not at all! They only speak for a radical fringe!!

    Votes: 28 36.8%
  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .
 
Catawba said:
Here you go:


19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit

Americans Favor Jobs Plan Proposals, Including Taxing Rich


Most Americans support stricter financial regulation - Poll

77 percent of Americans oppose the outsourcing of jobs to foreign nations, according to Pew Research
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Polls are subjective Americans Divided on Taxing the Rich to Redistribute Wealth

Bottom Line

While a solid majority of Americans, 57%, believe money and wealth in the U.S. should be more evenly distributed among the people, fewer than half favor using the federal tax code to do so. The fault line in these views is distinctly partisan, with most Democrats championing redistribution and most Republicans opposing it.

However, these are philosophical views. In practical terms, as government programs and budgets sink in red ink, unions and Democratic leaders at the federal level and in the states are calling for higher taxes on wealthy Americans specifically to help restore fiscal balance and stabilize entitlement programs. Gallup polling last year found two-thirds of Americans in favor of the wealthy paying higher Social Security taxes as a way to help keep that system solvent. Clearly, these attitudes are complex, and support for "taxing the rich" can run higher if framed in the context of specific benefits. Underneath it all, Americans are not "anti-rich," because most believe the country has either the right amount of or too few rich people.
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Americans Unsure About "Progressive" Political Label
Americans Unsure About "Progressive" Political Label
More than twice as many say label does not describe them as say it does
by Lydia Saad
PRINCETON, NJ -- Gallup polling reveals widespread public uncertainty about the "progressive" political label -- a label recently embraced by no less than Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan. While Kagan described her political views as "generally progressive" during her Senate confirmation hearings, fewer than half of Americans can say whether "progressive" does (12%) or does not (31%) describe their own views. The majority (54%) are unsure.
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Most Americans Uncertain About "Occupy Wall Street" Goals

Protesters have demonstrated in and around Wall Street for nearly a month, with the movement spreading and appearing to gain momentum around the U.S. At the same time, Americans are not highly familiar with the movement's activities or its goals. Those who are familiar with the movement tend to be more approving than disapproving of Occupy Wall Street, though with limited public knowledge about it, its supporters represent roughly a quarter of Americans.
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Poll: 'Occupy' movement fails to capture Americans' interest

A new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll shows that the "Occupy" movement has failed to capture the attention of a majority of Americans, indicating either ambivalence toward it or lack of interest.

The poll finds that 56% of Americans surveyed are neither supporters nor opponents and 59% say they don't know enough to have an opinion about the movement's goals.

The survey, however, does show an increase from 20% to 31% in disapproval of the way the protests are being conducted.
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I thought you said that most Americans support the progressive goals of OWS?

Fox News Poll on Occupy Wall Street Backfires | The New York Observer
Out of over 198,000 votes, more than 137,000 voted that Occupy Wall Street protesters represented how they felt about the nation’s economic problems. This isn’t a fluke: Reddit put out a call to arms four days ago, as did The Daily Kos. Combined with all those pro-Occupiers on Twitter and Facebook who kept linking to the poll and getting the word out, the numbers went soaring in favor of OWS.

The only question now is how Fox keeps the poll up, and how hard they will try to bury this data afterwards. Or perhaps Conservatives will rally on their social networking sites and bring their numbers back up? Hey, all it takes is one link from DrudgeReport.
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Still believe in polls?
 
 
The "Occ-tards" as you so eloquently put it, are basically the youth in revolt. It doesn't matter who tanked the economy, it doesn't even matter really who wins in 2012. America has a systemic problem that allowed the rich to get richer and the poor get poorer. OWS want the right to prosper, and it is a right. But with people leaving college with huge student loans and few prospects, what do you expect. Young people will do what young people will do, buck the system. They will use their liberal arts degrees and teaching degrees to go out into the world and piss the old folks off. It happened every generation, except the 80's and 90's i guess...they were kinda lame. Dems want taxes, republicans want cuts. OWS just wants a voice. They don't want to inherit these problems and they don't want to pay for two financed wars that they did not believe in the first place. So name calling and mud slinging may work for the fixed news crowd, but why try to find the pulse of the movement in the arsehole when you can just as easily find it in the neck.
 
Catawba said:
Fail, no one is proposing heavy taxes on the rich.





Fail, old poll before the GOP played their throw-the-seniors-under-the-bus-plan, post 2010 election.



Fail, OWS approval ratings are twice that of the Republicans.
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Fail? Bwhahaha I am not a Republican never have been never will be. Wrong tactic buddy. I wasnt even arguing Republican talking points. What I was saying though is that this is a diverse nation, not everyone is on the Progressive bandwagon. The Republicans are an example of one diverse element that does not agree that Progressive policies are the wisest solution.

What Republicans and Democrats seem to miss is that they both exist and wont just disappear because they do not like them. OWS is completely biased and completely intolerant of the Right. The Occupy movement leaves absolutely no room for anyone on the Right to exist in their pipe dream fantasy. Which brings us back too the question: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%? The Right will fight OWS at every step because OWS is anti-Right in everything they do. There is no olive branch extended only wholesale blame that everything is the Rights fault.

As an Independent I do not support either the Left or the Right, but I do not just wish them away. I choose to be apart of my community rather than accuse sections of that same community. This position that corporations have taken over the world is pointless and is fruitless because all it does is blame the Right. No one is going to see the light and magically change their leanings to the Left just because the Left blames them for corruption.

The entire 1% vs the 99% line is to take the attention away from the fact that under the excuse of class warfare the Left is engaging in ideological warfare. In that latter the Tea Party and OWS are very alike.

Seriously, just because I oppose OWS does not make me some far Right supporter of corporations. Again your tact is misguided and irrelevantly aimed.
 
Hmm..

"Youth in revolt," "rage against capitalism," "change the system"...

Didn't socialists in history focus on these elements, too? Gee, I wonder what we'll see from them next. Yeah, I enjoy watching the violence and trashiness, NOT.
 
rickety said:
The "Occ-tards" as you so eloquently put it, are basically the youth in revolt. It doesn't matter who tanked the economy, it doesn't even matter really who wins in 2012. America has a systemic problem that allowed the rich to get richer and the poor get poorer. OWS want the right to prosper, and it is a right.
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So if its a right it applies to both the rich and the poor. So why are we looking to punish the rich?
 
rickety said:
The "Occ-tards" as you so eloquently put it, are basically the youth in revolt. It doesn't matter who tanked the economy, it doesn't even matter really who wins in 2012. America has a systemic problem that allowed the rich to get richer and the poor get poorer. OWS want the right to prosper, and it is a right. But with people leaving college with huge student loans and few prospects, what do you expect. Young people will do what young people will do, buck the system. They will use their liberal arts degrees and teaching degrees to go out into the world and piss the old folks off. It happened every generation, except the 80's and 90's i guess...they were kinda lame. Dems want taxes, republicans want cuts. OWS just wants a voice. They don't want to inherit these problems and they don't want to pay for two financed wars that they did not believe in the first place. So name calling and mud slinging may work for the fixed news crowd, but why try to find the pulse of the movement in the arsehole when you can just as easily find it in the neck.
Click to expand...

Ah damn and they spent so much on the propagandist story that OWS is not just a bunch of young people. Didnt you get the memo?
 
Freedom From al said:
What I was saying though is that this is a diverse nation, not everyone is on the Progressive bandwagon.
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Well, a majority of that diverse nation supports eliminating the tax breaks for the rich. Get used to it.

Which brings us back too the question: Does the Occupy Wall Street movement represent the 99%?
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They represent the interest of the 99%, yes.
 
Catawba said:
Well, a majority of that diverse nation supports eliminating the tax breaks for the rich. Get used to it.
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Interesting how you keep trying to tie me to something I did not say. There is a difference between cutting tax breaks and taxing the rich more than any other class. I have not in this conversation mentioned ot implied anything about tax breaks. Nice try though.

They represent the interest of the 99%, yes.
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That is just splitting hairs and is meaningless, since OWS isnt really doing anything.
This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands. Forum Post: Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement! | OccupyWallSt.org
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Plus OWs does not claim that they are fighting in our interest that is a complete falsehood. OWS came up with this slogan "We are the 99%" Not "We are fighting for the 99%"

Many groups claim to be working in best interest of the people (Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Etc.). Announcing that your working for the best interest of the people does not mean that your best interest is the best choice for the people. it is especially meaningless if you do not have the permission of the people. Which as I pointed out OWS does not have the permission of even half of the US. Hence why the occupy movement is dying right now.

Whats next for OWS, what will give them another 15 mins of fame? Oh yes they boycotted Black Friday that certainly worked didnt it? Next they want to disrupt the economy in name of the people that want a better economy? Im sure that will win over more people to their cause. Mean while corruption continues, and all that the occupy movement can do is cry about losing their private campgrounds in the middle of town. Haven't they ever heard that if you let one person or group get away with something you have to let everyone get away with it?

They claim they have the right to camp in public spaces and set up their own little towns complete with medical and libraries. Well what if I decide that I want to set up a town with a bunch of my neighbors in a wilderness area? I mean it is a public space it belongs to the people right? My group can just say we are protesting the banks for taking away houses.
 
Freedom From al said:
Interesting how you keep trying to tie me to something I did not say.
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Except here you mean?

Freedom From al said:
not everyone is on the Progressive bandwagon.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between cutting tax breaks and taxing the rich more than any other class. I have not in this conversation mentioned ot implied anything about tax breaks. Nice try though.
Click to expand...

The Bush tax changes cut tax rates more for the rich than they did for the middle class.
That is just splitting hairs and is meaningless, since OWS isnt really doing anything. Plus OWs does not claim that they are fighting in our interest that is a complete falsehood. OWS came up with this slogan "We are the 99%" Not "We are fighting for the 99%"

Many groups claim to be working in best interest of the people (Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Etc.). Announcing that your working for the best interest of the people does not mean that your best interest is the best choice for the people. it is especially meaningless if you do not have the permission of the people. Which as I pointed out OWS does not have the permission of even half of the US. Hence why the occupy movement is dying right now.
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The OWS has 4 times the support than does the Congress elected in 2010.

Whats next for OWS, what will give them another 15 mins of fame?
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It must be true what they say about how quickly time passes when your having fun:

"The Occupy Wall Street movement entered its third month Thursday with protests against the economic system in dozens of cities across the country.
 
Catawba said:
Except here you mean?





The Bush tax changes cut tax rates more for the rich than they did for the middle class.
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Again I never mentioned support for tax cuts. What you quoted was a very large stretch. But non the less I am telling you now that I do not support the Bush tax breaks. You can again try to twist my words but it will only show your dishonesty.


The OWS has 4 times the support than does the Congress elected in 2010.
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4x0=0 no its not actually zero but significantly small. Enough to confidently say that the majority of Americans are not on board with OWS.


It must be true what they say about how quickly time passes when your having fun:

"The Occupy Wall Street movement entered its third month Thursday with protests against the economic system in dozens of cities across the country.
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3 months is not a long time. In fact OWs still is saying that their movement is young. At least that is the excuse they are using for why they are failing to gain critical mass.
Bottom line, though: It seems that Occupy Wall Street has passed its sell-by date — and even the Occupiers know it.

Read more: Occupy Wall Street fizzles—Editorial - NYPOST.com
Occupy Wall Street fizzles—Editorial - NYPOST.com
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http://www.newscastmedia.com/ows.pdf

The occupy movement is unsustainable people were getting no where camping and bitching about cops harassing them for camping. At best there is confusion about what the protests are about, hence why I made you jump through hoops, to prove the point. Go ask people on the streets what they think about OWS and perhaps you will get the answers you want or perhaps you will get some that you do not want. The goal of any protest is to inform the public. OWs has failed miserably at that task. Mainly because they have not have had a unified clear voice. They tried to tell the people that they were the people. WHich backfired since any rational person would ask "Wait! I am not at no protest. How can they be me?" That is what I meant by the term bandwagon. Idea I is popular.
Therefore, I is correct. 99% was an invented slogan to make people join in and not question why. Which always works with a certain amount of the population. In that sense OWS gained critical mass and climaxed. Sure there will be a few more minutes left of fame. But in desperation people always become desperate. And OWS is moving into that desperate phase where the radicals thrive. And radicals will be radicals and will end the Occupy movement with a bang most likely.
 
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Freedom From al said:
Again I never mentioned support for tax cuts. What you quoted was a very large stretch. But non the less I am telling you now that I do not support the Bush tax breaks.
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Great, glad we can agree.



4x0=0 no its not actually zero but significantly small. Enough to confidently say that the majority of Americans are not on board with OWS.
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OWS approval by a third of Americans vs 9% approval for the congress elected in 2010. Seems significant to me.




3 months is not a long time. In fact OWs still is saying that their movement is young. At least that is the excuse they are using for why they are failing to gain critical mass.
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One step at a time is how you get anywhere. Going on 3 months so far they have been accomplishing their goal of increasing public debate about the disparity of wealth in this country. Nice balance I think for the clowns debating as to who is going to be the biggest supporter of continuing trickle down economics that has been the only policy of the GOP for the last 3 decades.
 
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Catawba said:
Great, glad we can agree.





OWS approval by a third of Americans vs 9% approval for the congress elected in 2010. Seems significant to me.






One step at a time is how you get anywhere. Going on 3 months so far they have been accomplishing their goal of increasing public debate about the disparity of wealth in this country. Nice balance I think for the clowns debating as to who is going to be the biggest supporter of continuing trickle down economics that has been the only policy of the GOP for the last 3 decades.
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The problem is that public debate hasnt got past political indifference. America is faced with problems that need to be addressed with diverse efforts from the citizens. We all have different opinions and perceptions of what this country needs in terms of fixing of its ailments. As long as the solutions are one sided we will continue to flounder.

I refuse to belong to any particular political party because in doing so I would be supporting a closed mind approach at politics. I would rather have no limits on choices for solutions. I realize that other people see things differently than I do, which is what makes the world go around.

The way I see it there is nothing directly without stepping on liberty that will remove the wealth that the top 1% owns at this point. Holding signs and trying to turn the public on the 1% will not create any meaningful change unless you believe that inciting people to be bigots is the type of change your after. Intellectually speaking we need to fight for the rights held by the Constitution, that is where our power as a people resides. We need to make our country resemble what the framers of the Constitution outlined. That is the real conversation that the public should be engaged in. And that is where the solutions reside, not in blaming sections of society.

Lately many have said that we out number the wealthy 99% to 1%, the only way that the 1% has been able to corrupt our Government is by us allowing them to do it. Where the Occupy movement goes wrong is by putting the 99% in a top vs bottom environment. We have the ultimate power there is no up or down. The law of this land is the Constitution and our Constitution does not disallow wealth, it only requires that the laws and rights of this nation be followed. Hedging the rich hedges all of our rights. It is no different than standing up for freedom of speech even when you do not agree with the speakers message.

Fight corruption not the results of corruption. Economic disparity is an result, not the cause.
 
Freedom From al said:
We all have different opinions and perceptions of what this country needs in terms of fixing of its ailments. As long as the solutions are one sided we will continue to flounder.
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That's why the country is fortunate to have the OWS to present the progressive position on issues to balance out the two conservative parties.

I refuse to belong to any particular political party because in doing so I would be supporting a closed mind approach at politics. I would rather have no limits on choices for solutions. I realize that other people see things differently than I do, which is what makes the world go around.
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Yep, I don't belong to a political party either, I always vote the best of the viable choices, regardless of party.

The way I see it there is nothing directly without stepping on liberty that will remove the wealth that the top 1% owns at this point.
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You've already said you agree with eliminating the Bush tax cuts. That will remove some of the wealth from the top 1%.

Holding signs and trying to turn the public on the 1% will not create any meaningful change unless you believe that inciting people to be bigots is the type of change your after.
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Your interpretation of providing moral support for the 99% of the country oppressed by the 1%.

Intellectually speaking we need to fight for the rights held by the Constitution, that is where our power as a people resides. We need to make our country resemble what the framers of the Constitution outlined. That is the real conversation that the public should be engaged in. And that is where the solutions reside, not in blaming sections of society.
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The 1% are the ones that have encroached on the liberties and justice afforded under the Constitution. The OWS is standing up for it, and us.

Lately many have said that we out number the wealthy 99% to 1%, the only way that the 1% has been able to corrupt our Government is by us allowing them to do it. Where the Occupy movement goes wrong is by putting the 99% in a top vs bottom environment. We have the ultimate power there is no up or down.
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You ignore the ability of money to buy politicians.

The law of this land is the Constitution and our Constitution does not disallow wealth, it only requires that the laws and rights of this nation be followed.
Hedging the rich hedges all of our rights. It is no different than standing up for freedom of speech even when you do not agree with the speakers message.
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For the most part, they are calling for a tax system and regulatory system closer to the progressiveness during the half century before Reagan. Are you under the impression there were no rich people in this country prior to Reganomics???

Fight corruption not the results of corruption. Economic disparity is an result, not the cause.
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That is what the OWS is fighting, corruption. And it is the largest continuous mass protest in this country to take that corruption on. They have my thanks and gratitude for standing up for issues the 2010 congress is not even talking about.
 
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Catawba said:
You ignore the ability of money to buy politicians.
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Nah not at all. Money cannot buy 'us the people', that is why we have the ultimate power.

Look I am not against people speaking their minds and even demanding justice and/or accountability. But the reality is that OWS is not gaining mass support by the people that matters. And reason for that failure is that even if some people claim their goals are obvious OWS does not really make it obvious to the regular 'politics bore me' crowd.
Ows is out of touch with mainstream America, their behavior shows it. Americans for the most part follow the laws of society. Civil disobedience alienates the people that do follow the rules of the communities that we all live in. Such behavior does nothing to bind the movement with the everyday law abiding people.

The Thanksgiving dinner in Oakland hammers this point. Occupy Oakland ordered two porta potties for their Thanksgiving celebration at Oscar Grant plaza. The police by the authority of laws on the books disallowed the porta potties. The Occupiers freaked out and became violent. Watch the vid in the link below. Peaceful people do not fight with the police when the police make a request that citizens must follow the laws. Watch closely as one protester tries to hit the officers with the hood of the truck. Also notice the people screaming at the top of their lungs at the officers. Peaceful people do not scream at people. Notice other people trying to remove the porta potties despite being informed that doing so is illegal.

The video really highlights the overall behavior by most of the Occupations. Video after video on YouTube shows protesters screaming at cops. And the same videos show the protesters surrounding cops and intimidating cops on a regular bases. And as I have pointed out the protesters are using known tactics to get themselves arrested so that they can tout arrest numbers.

Time after time you have tried to make excuses and point blankly tried to tell me that I am wrong or misguided. There is proof in the form of hours of video that baked my observations, there are websites set up by the protesters themselves that are thick with the observations that I have talked about. If you want to ignore overwhelming evidence that is your choice. But you have not presented a case at all that convinces me that I am wrong in my analysis of the Occupy movement.

Here is what I cannot get passed with OWS. The tactics and propaganda being put forth by OWS mirrors the same tactics devised by Karl Marx, a method to take over a country by revolution. To rally the working class against the wealthy and the ruling class, in order to dismantle the existing Government in order to make a new Government. You can accuse me of being paranoid until you wear out your keyboard, but the parallels and the fact that the far leftist element of the protest is not small keep me against OWs by what is very obvious to many other people as well.

Indigenous Solidarity Thanksgiving Celebration Attacked by OPD - Occupy Oakland

"We are also striking back against the nationally' coordinated attack on the Occupy movement. In response to the police violence and camp evictions against the Occupy movement- This is our coordinated response against the 1%. On December 12th we will show are collective power through pinpointed economic blockade of the 1%." West Coast Port Shut Down
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Revenge is not so peaceful.
 
Freedom From al said:
Ows is out of touch with mainstream America, their behavior shows it.
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That's exact same thing that was said about the Civil Rights movement, and the Vietnam war protests at the time.
 
I agree. The Civil Rights Movement had reactionaries saying the exact same thing. OWS is extremely peaceful compared to the Civil Rights Movement.
 
Catawba said:
That's exact same thing that was said about the Civil Rights movement, and the Vietnam war protests at the time.
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I think trying to suggest that #ows is comparable to the civil rights movement is a gross exaggeration of prodigious ignorant proportions.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
I think trying to suggest that #ows is comparable to the civil rights movement is a gross exaggeration of prodigious ignorant proportions.
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please point out the comparison you insist he made
 
Catawba said:
That's exact same thing that was said about the Civil Rights movement, and the Vietnam war protests at the time.
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As far as the war protestors are concerned, it's still true.
 
apdst said:
As far as the war protestors are concerned, it's still true.
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We'll just go with the historians view rather than the world according to apdst, but thanks anyway.
 
Catawba said:
That's exact same thing that was said about the Civil Rights movement, and the Vietnam war protests at the time.
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An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.

Whether you intend to or not you are implying that I am an racist, just because I do not agree with OWS. Again such ideas will not win me over in support of OWS. Infact you have only further discredited the occupy movement.
 
Freedom From al said:
An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.

Whether you intend to or not you are implying that I am an racist, just because I do not agree with OWS. Again such ideas will not win me over in support of OWS. Infact you have only further discredited the occupy movement.
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Racist???? I made no such suggestion.

You said: "Ows is out of touch with mainstream America, their behavior shows it."

And I said,

"That's exact same thing that was said about the Civil Rights movement, and the Vietnam war protests at the time."

Where from that do you get I am implying you are a racist???

I am comparing one non-violent mass protests (OWS) with two other historic non-violent mass protests, the Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam War Protest.

How are comparing 3 historic non-violent mass protests implying that you are racist??? I assumed you were against the OWS protest because of the ultra conservative views you have presented, not because you were a racist.
 
Freedom From al said:
An association fallacy is an inductive informal fallacy of the type hasty generalization or red herring which asserts that qualities of one thing are inherently qualities of another, merely by an irrelevant association. The two types are sometimes referred to as guilt by association and honor by association. Association fallacies are a special case of red herring, and can be based on an appeal to emotion.

Whether you intend to or not you are implying that I am an racist, just because I do not agree with OWS. Again such ideas will not win me over in support of OWS. Infact you have only further discredited the occupy movement.
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Just wanted to say that I enjoy your posts .. well spoken … and making some good valid points.


I know this is off topic, but I agree that we the people have allowed our government to get out of control, we are the only ones with the power, to hold them accountable. I guess if I was to associate myself with anything it would be the tea party. I'm conservative by nature, which is why I can't relate to Republicans any more, and why I have never been able to relate much with Democrats.

My opinion of the OWS bunch, is that as a whole, they are a bunch of extremists, they in no way shape or form speak or represent 99% of anyone or anything, except their own self serving interests. As for the question of if they are right or left, one only has to look at those here, and see who whole heartedly supports everything they do, to “know” they are on the extreme left of the political spectrum. Nearly every liberal, socialist, and communist on these pages are their supporters. The middle thinks they are irrelevant, and the right can't stand them.

This I believe tho, the American people those right and left of center, and those in the center, have been awaken, in 2006 and 2008 we seen wholesale changes because people were unhappy with the Republican party, in 2010 we seen the dissatisfaction with Democrats, once again there were wholesale changes I think we are going to see the very same thing in 2012, only those incumbents that can run on their record are going to be safe.

While liberals here like to quote polls showing Americans back tax increases, what they never show is this. A new Gallup finds that an overwhelming majority of Americans prefer spending cuts to outweigh or equal tax increases in balancing the budget. So well one here continues to use polls to show everyone how badly Americans think of our congress, what he fails to understand is just as much of that displeasure is directed at the Democrats as well.

Well blaming Republicans for the Bush tax cuts, he will never bring up the fact that it was Democrats that extended them until 2012. They voted to bring the bill to the floor, when no action was needed for them to expire. Republicans could in no way shape or form, done anything to stop them from expiring.

I only use this to show that the extreme leftists here still refuse to take any responsibility for this, and continue to blame Republicans.

I can honestly say that I fear for our country, because we grow farther apart each and every day, and we have a sitting President, that rather then uniting us, seems intent on driving us further apart even now I don't believe that we are capable of being destroyed from outside forces, but from within, that is another story, IMO there could be another revolution in this country, but it won't be th so called 99% against corporate greed and corruption, it's going to be the far left against the far right, and those in the middle will have to choose sides, which simply means middle American will decide what direction this country will take. Whatever party stands closest to the core values of what the center feels this country was founded on, and stands for will be the side the center will move to. To me personally, I'm of the age that I'm not to worried for myself, but I just can't help thinking that the new generation, is not going to live in the America that we (those of my age) grew up and lived in.

I've rambled on enough .. sorry for the distraction from the topic on hand.
 
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