• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should Kagan recuse herself from the BOCare case?

Should Kagan recuse herself

  • yes

    Votes: 17 70.8%
  • no

    Votes: 7 29.2%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
Like I said before.....you think BO is the Chosen One, I say "prove it". We have never had a president that we know so little about........never. Everything about that clown is hidden, erased, locked down.........untouchable. If BO was half the intellect you libtards dream he is, he and his handlers would have published all of his accomplishments years ago. He's got nothing to brag about.

It's always hysterical watching the BO tools spin and spin and spin as they try to create the image BO is anything other than an affirmative action clown that talks cool, is half black and he isn't Bush.

For the record, BO isn't qualified to sniff Thomas' shorts.
How am i a obama tool? I don't even like him. I realize that he is better than bush but thats not saying much because bush set the bar so low. He was chosen alright. By the american people. Thats the difference between democracy and affirmative action. I see you still refuse to acknoweldge the basis for clarence thomas's appointment. Even he acknowledges it was affirmative action. Maybe you will wake up one day and see the truth.
 
Once you get past your partisan rambling, the reality is that it is what it is. Our system says the pres submits, senate confirms, and if so a justice is a justice for life. The senate has one shot at saying no. Once they confirm...too bad. Unless there is actual misconduct then no justice should ever recuse themselves and if they do they should step down permanent. One persons opinion.
 
Once you get past your partisan rambling, the reality is that it is what it is. Our system says the pres submits, senate confirms, and if so a justice is a justice for life. The senate has one shot at saying no. Once they confirm...too bad. Unless there is actual misconduct then no justice should ever recuse themselves and if they do they should step down permanent. One persons opinion.
I tend to agree with this. My one issue is if it is absolutely certain a justice would be impartial due to public statements or a slam dunk case that their investment in the issue would lead them to form a decision before hearing arguments. Of course justices are human and will have some biases, so I exclude most instances and say only for the most obvious ones. I don't know whether Kagen's comments are enough here but it is pretty bad.
 
You were saying his impartiality was compromised since he would be influenced by what benefits his wife. If that is true, we can expect Thomas to support BOCare since his wife would make a ton on money fighting his decision. Wrong again. Your tortured and meritless theory goes up in flames when it appears Thomas would vote like he always does, conservative, and this vote would not help his wife's lobbying career since this issue would die if Thomas gets his way. How exactly did that support your point?

You supported my point by pointing out that he stands to make monetary gains based on the results of the case.

He stands to profit more if he is the author of the dissenting opinion in opposition to Obamacare. Because of that, his impartiality is legitimately in question.



If Thomas votes to support BOCare, I will completely agree with you.

Not surprisingly, your create an argument that defeats your own position about Kagen. When you say "Thomas would vote like he always does, conservative" you admit that these judges are anything but impartial. The same exact logic can be applied to Kagen to excuse her from recusing herself because Kagen would more than likely vote exactly as expected, liberal.


So we get to the crux of the issue here. You yourself are incapable of impartiality. You only want Kagen to recuse herself because it will help achieve the goal you wish to see achieved.

So here's the ultimate question: in what land of fairy tales do you think yourself competent to judge another's impartiality when you are not capable of impartiality yourself?
 
Thomas is a rock solid conservative judge, that's why he was picked. It may have crossed Bush's mind the nomination of a black jurist would be a good thing as well. At the end of the day Thomas has written numerous solid legal opinions and he has voted consistently on all matters before him.

He's a solid conservative judge, yes. It is a little hard to overlook that Bush happened to choose another black guy to replace Thurgood Marshall. There were probably other judges with a similar resume who didn't get the nod because Bush didn't want to take the political heat for picking someone who wasn't black.

I'm not saying Thomas was unqualified. But I do think the fact that he's black put him over the top of other qualified judges.
 
You supported my point by pointing out that he stands to make monetary gains based on the results of the case.

He stands to profit more if he is the author of the dissenting opinion in opposition to Obamacare. Because of that, his impartiality is legitimately in question.





Not surprisingly, your create an argument that defeats your own position about Kagen. When you say "Thomas would vote like he always does, conservative" you admit that these judges are anything but impartial. The same exact logic can be applied to Kagen to excuse her from recusing herself because Kagen would more than likely vote exactly as expected, liberal.


So we get to the crux of the issue here. You yourself are incapable of impartiality. You only want Kagen to recuse herself because it will help achieve the goal you wish to see achieved.

So here's the ultimate question: in what land of fairy tales do you think yourself competent to judge another's impartiality when you are not capable of impartiality yourself?

If Thomas wrote the dissenting opinion in opposition to Obamacare, he would be doing what everyone expected him to do, regardless of how his wife makes a living. Only if he flipped flopped and went against everything he has stood for during his entire professional career, could you claim he appeared to less than impartial. What this means is Thomas will be not compromised by his wife's employment.......period.

Kagan, on the other hand, may be asked to judge her own legal work.....we don't know what she or who she consulted while Solicitor General of the US while this bill was drafted into law and utlimately signed by her former boss. Yeah, that's the same thing as the tortured and impossible assumption that Thomas may be biased and will show this bias by reaching the very predictable conclusion everyone expects of him in this case.

Your psycho-babble on who is impartial enough to form a valid personal opinion is lame.
 
No. No direct conflict of interest.

"I, [NAME], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will administer justice without respect to persons, and do equal right to the poor and to the rich, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me as [TITLE] under the Constitution and laws of the United States. So help me God."
Sworn loyalty to the United States and the Constitution? So has Congress and the president. How's that working out for us?
 
If Thomas wrote the dissenting opinion in opposition to Obamacare, he would be doing what everyone expected him to do, regardless of how his wife makes a living. Only if he flipped flopped and went against everything he has stood for during his entire professional career, could you claim he appeared to less than impartial. What this means is Thomas will be not compromised by his wife's employment.......period.

The funny thing here is that your defense of Thomas' impartiality relies entirely on him being anything but impartial. In fact, your argument is basically "We know he's going to be impartial because he is so heavily biased already that we know how he's going to vote regardless!'

My position on this ethical question is based on the presumption that these judges are actually impartial (which is, of course, a false assumption, as you have so clearly demonstrated here in your "defense" of Thomas' impartiality).


Kagan, on the other hand, may be asked to judge her own legal work.....we don't know what she or who she consulted while Solicitor General of the US while this bill was drafted into law and utlimately signed by her former boss. Yeah, that's the same thing as the tortured and impossible assumption that Thomas may be biased and will show this bias by reaching the very predictable conclusion everyone expects of him in this case.

Two things:

1. Kagen's former boss is also her current boss: The American public. Ultimately, we are all of these people's bosses.

2. You are speculating based on her previous job and inventing the claim that she would be judging her own work. That, by it's very nature, makes your questioning of her impartiality in this case unreasonable.


Where your logic really fails, though, is that by pointing out that Thomas' conclusion in this case is predictable regardless of financial gain, you are accusing him of being partial regardless of any monetary rewards he might receive. Thus, your argument would require him to recuse himself of any and all cases from this point forward since he is not, by his very nature, impartial.



Your psycho-babble on who is impartial enough to form a valid personal opinion is lame.

You previously accused me of creating a strawman clearly indicating that you were ignorant of what a strawman is. As a service to you (because I am a helpful sort of chap), I will demonstrate how the above is a strawman.

Here you have altered my argument that your lack of impartiality makes you an incompetent judge of another person's impartiality to being about the formation of valid personal opinions in general. This is an extremely distorted variation of what my actual claim was.


See, a strawman is when someone creates an exaggerated or distorted form of another person's argument and ignores the actual argument made by the person. Now that you know what a straw man is, You should be able to do two things from here on out:

1. You can avoid accusing someone falsely as you did before with me
2. you can avoid creating them yourself.

This is, of course, assuming that you are competent enough at logic to recognize the difference between my actual argument and the one you have invented and attributed to me.
 
Thomas has been consistently against the expansion of federal powers that are not clearly spelled out in the Constitution. BOCare is a massive expansion of the federal governments power, even DOJ lawyers have admitted that. Thomas will undoubtedly rule against the mandate. You may accuse him of lacking objectivity and being closed minded, I would call him principled. I expect the liberals to vote like they always do and the conservatives to do the same. That is not the issue even though you seem to be bogged down on it.

Your silliness about Kagan working for the public is just that, silliness. She worked for BO and Holder and that's it.

Now let's look at whether she is a lying POS and if she lied under oath when she claimed she didn't have anything to do with BOCare. But before we go there let's visit this issue. I didn't invent anything if you had read what I wrote. Did you skip over the word "may" on purpose? By making the claim I definitively stated " she would be judging her own work", you created a straw man. Kettle meet pot.

This is a long read but some here may find it interesting. Given this track record......Kagan should recuse herself and she should be removed from the court for lying under oath.

DOJ Refuses Judiciary Committee
 
Thomas has been consistently against the expansion of federal powers that are not clearly spelled out in the Constitution. BOCare is a massive expansion of the federal governments power, even DOJ lawyers have admitted that. Thomas will undoubtedly rule against the mandate. You may accuse him of lacking objectivity and being closed minded, I would call him principled. I expect the liberals to vote like they always do and the conservatives to do the same. That is not the issue even though you seem to be bogged down on it.

Your silliness about Kagan working for the public is just that, silliness. She worked for BO and Holder and that's it.

Now let's look at whether she is a lying POS and if she lied under oath when she claimed she didn't have anything to do with BOCare. But before we go there let's visit this issue. I didn't invent anything if you had read what I wrote. Did you skip over the word "may" on purpose? By making the claim I definitively stated " she would be judging her own work", you created a straw man. Kettle meet pot.

This is a long read but some here may find it interesting. Given this track record......Kagan should recuse herself and she should be removed from the court for lying under oath.

DOJ Refuses Judiciary Committee
 
Thomas has been consistently against the expansion of federal powers that are not clearly spelled out in the Constitution. BOCare is a massive expansion of the federal governments power, even DOJ lawyers have admitted that. Thomas will undoubtedly rule against the mandate.

You are basically saying that since he was never going to be viewing this case impartially, the fact that he has benefited from opposition to this legislation is irrelevant.

But to be fair, he has supported federal powers being expanded when doing so helps certain conservative causes more than a few times.

His voting record might be totally different if more of those issues cropped up.

You may accuse him of lacking objectivity and being closed minded, I would call him principled.

Despite the fact that you have had strawmen explained to you, you still choose to create one here. Why would I call him those things?

I'm simply agreeing with you when you say that he is biased in the way that he rules. Most of the justices are just as biased as he is.

I expect the liberals to vote like they always do and the conservatives to do the same.

As do I.

That is not the issue even though you seem to be bogged down on it.

Uh, I'm not the one who used that as a matter of defense for one of the two justices in question. That was you. If you are now saying that it isn't part of the issue, you are rejecting the defense of Thomas you created.


Your silliness about Kagan working for the public is just that, silliness.

Compelling argument. Utterly devoid of any logic or common sense, but compelling none the less.

She worked for BO and Holder and that's it.

Who are their bosses?

I didn't invent anything if you had read what I wrote. Did you skip over the word "may" on purpose?

Of course not. I specifically said that you were "speculating".

She may have been ****ing Osama bin Laden in the ass with a strapon dildo, too.

That is an invented claim as well, and it is based on my speculation that she looks like the kind of person who staps on dildos and ****s terrorists in the ass with them.

I use that example to demonstrate the unreasonableness of the tactics you are using to question her impartiality.

By making the claim I definitively stated " she would be judging her own work", you created a straw man.

:lol: So now the list of words/terms you don't know the meanings of is:

Straw man
Speculation

Kettle meet pot.

:prof Your literacy issues do not make me a hypocrite.

This is a long read but some here may find it interesting. Given this track record......Kagan should recuse herself and she should be removed from the court for lying under oath.

Ah, so not only are you attacking her impartiality in this case, but have her convicted of perjury without so much as a trial. Talk about impartiality! :rofl:
 
We can continue this exercise in mental masturbation until the kleenex box is empty and we are dehydrated. I have no interest in pursuing that outcome.

The link I posted strongly suggests Kagan is up to her neck in crafting the laws she is now being asked to review. Your tortured theory on the impartiality of Thomas is irrelevant since he will undoubtedly vote like he has on all similar issues.....he likes a very limited federal government and BOCare is just the opposite. Have the last word.......
 
Have you ever noticed the only people who say this kind of thing are the one's who absolutely positively have to have the last word on an issue, but like to project that desire on others?

Well now I have the last word. Suck it.
 
Back
Top Bottom