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Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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theplaydrive said:
Remember that time you said that Episcopalian flag had something to do with the Confederacy and then I pointed out the fact that it was created in 1918 and had nothing to do the Confederacy and then you ignored that fact and said something stupid. That's what you do in every thread for every topic which is why it's so fun to "debate" with you and why anybody who likes your silly posts ends up on the "not serious" list.
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Does that include you? :rofl

theplaydrive liked post by apdst On thread : Violence mars Black Friday
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theplaydrive said:
Did you even read my post? I got it aka said it several days before you even posted in this thread. I can still see that you aren't fully grasping how much of this thread has flown over your head.
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Then why did you bother debating such a simple point? I backed up Caines point and I didn't see you debating him over it. Yet, you debated me for the same exact point and then further compounded your error when I repeatedly restated my point and then the ultimate folly of see you finally agree to my point. The point of our debate was that you debated me on a simple concept. I was not debating anything else. You have fabricated some imaginary argument in your head that you thought we were debating when we weren't. The folly of all this is your inability to recognize the simplicity of a minor point. This doesn't bode well for any debates that you might engage in that are more subtle... and I will keep this in mind if I ever decide to debate you again. Jeez... what a ****ing waste of time.
 
apdst said:
I think it had more to do with the fitness of africans to perform the labor in that climate, than anything else. But, when you consider that africans probably stayed healthy under those conditions, where other peoples may not, then it's not hard to believe that africans were a cheaper route.
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Now this is an honest answer I can respond to. I agree that fitness was probably the largest factor. It's an obvious trait that many Africans had that made them more able to perform the labor than many other potential slaves. But then at the same time, the location made it very easy to bring slaves over to America, so that's another factor. There were other factors as well and I include race among them because documents from that era show white speaking about the inferiority of Africans. If you don't include race, then we'll just have to disagree, but I still do in addition to the other factors like money, location and physical ability.
 
theplaydrive said:
Remember that time you said that Episcopalian flag had something to do with the Confederacy and then I pointed out the fact that it was created in 1918 and had nothing to do the Confederacy and then you ignored that fact and said something stupid. That's what you do in every thread for every topic which is why it's so fun to "debate" with you and why anybody who likes your silly posts ends up on the "not serious" list.
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Actually, apstd is always on the stupid lists and such in the Basement and I have found him refreshingly not stupid. In fact, he makes some very good points. I am not sure that I have ever debated with him or really read much of him in the 2 years that he has been here.
 
theplaydrive said:
Another unrelated and irrelevant point. Bodi liked it again and we can now add Caine to the list of unrelated/irrelevant point likers.

The entire point that Caine and others have been making is that African slaves were cheap labor relative to other potential slaves and other types of labor. I responded to that by agreeing with their take on the cheapness of slaves within that context. It's funny you didn't respond to them with this point. You, Caine and Bodi's biases are really showing.
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In the 30 pages or so that I have been here I have thanked each of them 4 or 5 times each I think... I have also thanked Phys who was debating against me. How is that bias?
 
theplaydrive said:
Now this is an honest answer I can respond to. I agree that fitness was probably the largest factor. It's an obvious trait that many Africans had that made them more able to perform the labor than many other potential slaves. But then at the same time, the location made it very easy to bring slaves over to America, so that's another factor. There were other factors as well and I include race among them because documents from that era show white speaking about the inferiority of Africans. If you don't include race, then we'll just have to disagree, but I still do in addition to the other factors like money, location and physical ability.
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It's impossible to place race as a contributing factor, after admitting that money, location and physical ability were the leading factors. If those same factors exsited for a white culture, they could have just as easily been enslaved.
 
Originally Posted by theplaydrive
Meh, I disagree. I've learned that it was more like "Hey, Africans are cheap, inferior, conveniently located and physically able to handle the labor, let's enslave them". You and Caine are trying to reduce slavery and it's start to money alone and that simplification is wrong.
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Bodhisattva said:
It costs money to enslave, transport, feed, house, etc slaves... so what other motive would those in the slave trade/business have had for enslaving people then genuis?
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Any reason you are not addressing this post?
 
Bodhisattva said:
The folly of all this is your inability to recognize the simplicity of a minor point
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Every point you've made in this thread is something I already dealt with days before you posted here. Why do you keep ignoring this fact? My earlier responses to your points when they were made by others were simple and respectful because the people who made them were respectful. You made your points arrogantly and I responded to what you put out. You get what you give. Sorry. :shrug:
 
apdst said:
Shhhhh! The grown-ups are talking!
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You would not have lasted thirty seconds in an actual collegiate debate spewing inane nonsense such as that.
 
apdst said:
You joined a long and distinguished list of people who recognize my brilliance. Be proud of that!
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You know what's weird about you? I can disagree with you so vehemently, but then you start saying things that crack me up and I can't even hate.
 
apdst said:
Wait! Now you are complaining about personal attacks?
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No, not complaining. If I personally attack someone, I fully expect them to not take my conversation seriously anymore since when I start attacks, I've ended all attempts at serious discussion. I have the same rule with other people. When the attacks start, the serious discussion stops.
 
apdst said:
When did I say otherwise? Which is why I'm wondering why you're even going down that road.
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NEWS BULLETIN: because it was you who made some wise crack about progressives being the first to try and make African Americans the underclass. It was then appropriate, indeed mandatory in debate, to take that unsubstantiated allegation and destroy it with actual facts from the historical record.

Why is this so impossible for you to follow?
 
theplaydrive said:
Now this is an honest answer I can respond to. I agree that fitness was probably the largest factor. It's an obvious trait that many Africans had that made them more able to perform the labor than many other potential slaves. But then at the same time, the location made it very easy to bring slaves over to America, so that's another factor. There were other factors as well and I include race among them because documents from that era show white speaking about the inferiority of Africans. If you don't include race, then we'll just have to disagree, but I still do in addition to the other factors like money, location and physical ability.
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Were Africans enslaved because they were thought to be inferior?

In colonial America, Africans weren't enslaved because they were thought to be inferior. On the contrary, they were valued for their skill as farmers and desired for their labor. Planters had previously tried enslaving Native Americans, but many escaped and hid among neighboring tribes or were stricken by diseases brought to the New World by Europeans.

In the early years of the colonies, the majority of workers were poor indentured servants from England. In fact, during Virginia's first century, 100,000 of the 130,000 Englishmen who crossed the Atlantic were indentured servants. Conditions of servitude were miserable, and nearly two thirds died before their term of indenture ended. After several decades, African slaves began arriving in the U.S. and worked side by side with indentured servants.

Many played together, intermarried, and ran away together. Racial categories were fluid, and slavery was not yet codified into law.

In the mid-17th century, a crisis arose in the colonies. As economic conditions in Mother England improved, the number of volunteers willing to journey across the Atlantic to endure such harsh treatment dropped dramatically, causing a labor shortage. At the same time, tension and hostilities were mounting domestically, as more servants were surviving their indenture and demanding land from the planter elite. The entire plantation labor system and colonial social hierarchy was threatened; the situation came to a head when poor servants and slaves allied and attacked the elite classes during Bacon's Rebellion.

After the system of indentured servitude proved unstable, planters turned increasingly to African slavery and began writing laws to divide Blacks from whites. Coincidentally, African slaves became more available at this time. Poor whites were given new entitlements and opportunities, including as overseers to police the slave population. Over time, they began to identify more with wealthy whites, and the degradation of slavery became identified more and more with Blackness.


RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS
 
theplaydrive said:
You know what's weird about you? I can disagree with you so vehemently, but then you start saying things that crack me up and I can't even hate.
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It will come in due time. ;)
 
theplaydrive said:
You know what's weird about you? I can disagree with you so vehemently, but then you start saying things that crack me up and I can't even hate.
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Because no matter what you think of my politics, I'm a great ****ing guy!
 
haymarket said:
NEWS BULLETIN: because it was you who made some wise crack about progressives being the first to try and make African Americans the underclass. It was then appropriate, indeed mandatory in debate, to take that unsubstantiated allegation and destroy it with actual facts from the historical record.

Why is this so impossible for you to follow?
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I think you're having trouble understanding why I'm right, because you don't even know what I said. I never said that progressives were the firs to try and make blacks a permanent under class.

I said they were the first to create an entire movement around the idea, for the political clout that they could gain from it and that creating that permanent under-class and eventua sub-culture didn't start in earnest, before the coming of the Libbos/Progressos.

Now, you have my permission to bask in my radiance for as long as you like!
 
apdst said:
It's impossible to place race as a contributing factor, after admitting that money, location and physical ability were the leading factors. If those same factors exsited for a white culture, they could have just as easily been enslaved.
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Let me put it this way: If the people who lived in Africa had been white, Christians who dressed like Europeans/Americans and had similar cultures as them BUT who also had the physical ability and cheap selling price, then I don't believe they would have been enslaved. I believe that Europeans and Americans would not have enslaved people so similar to them even if they were relatively cheap and had the right physical ability.
 
theplaydrive said:
Every point you've made in this thread is something I already dealt with days before you posted here. Why do you keep ignoring this fact? My earlier responses to your points when they were made by others were simple and respectful because the people who made them were respectful. You made your points arrogantly and I responded to what you put out. You get what you give. Sorry. :shrug:
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Actually bro... here is the chronology of what happened. I made an open statement to no one in particular, just something general. You decided to respond and within just a few posts you started the insults. You are either supremely ignorant of what you did or a flat out liar.


Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
The Confederate Flag is simply a symbol of the South... of Dixie. It is about being proud of that fact.

Don't make more of it is than it actually is... we have enough real problems in the world without manufacturing them.
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Originally Posted by theplaydrive
Oh I see, so only Southerners can have a valid opinion of the Confederate Flag. I think not.

It's a symbol of treason, slavery and racism in addition to a symbol of people's history, states' rights and whatever else.
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Originally Posted by Bodhisattva
I am not a Southerner. I have no idea why you would say that nor imply that only Southerners could have a valid opinion.

What is the Swastica to you then? I understand that you are probably not a Nazi, but I would still like to hear it.
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Originally Posted by theplaydrive
I never said you were.
I wouldn't say or imply that. You would and you did.
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And then we get this out of the blue to another poster:


Originally Posted by theplaydrive
I love that people are liking your post after you've blatantly lied about other posters and made a blatantly false claim and cowered away after being called out for it. Add LaMidRighter and Bodhisattva to the list of people who shouldn't be taken seriously.
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And I have not ignored "this fact". You challenged me on a point. I don't give two rat ****s what you said BEFORE I ENTERED THE DEBATE. No reasoable person should have to back track and read all your posts to find out what you might have said previously. I commented on this and you ignored it too. Basically, this is over and I won.

You don't see it and I am pointing it out simply to be arrogant.
 
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