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Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

Is the Confederate flag a symbol of treason?

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theplaydrive said:
Then your statement is irrelevant to this thread. This thread is about treason against the United States. Saying the founding fathers were traitors says nothing to contradict the point of this thread or Paschendale's point which you were responding to.
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Ummm... no. This thread is not about "treason against the United States." It is about how YOU see the confederate battle flag as representing treason against the US. The only real difference between that and how this country was formed is who won.

The founding father were traitors to the British Crown. You can't ignore history because you want to put blinders on.
 
theplaydrive said:
Not really. The history remains the same and people who fly the flag today fly the flag of those who did not want to be a part of this country.
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So now you speak for everyone? :lol:

Wow!
 
theplaydrive said:
How is the US Flag a flag of treason? If you're talking about it being a treasonous flag relative to the British Empire, then that treason is not an example of the contradiction that I am pointing out in this thread. The US flag represents the United States and consequently flying it in the United States makes sense. However, the Confederate flag represents those who did not want to belong to the United States.

The biggest difference between the US flag and the Confederate flag is not the one lost and the other won - it's the one belongs to those who want to belong to this country and the only belongs to those who do not.
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Totally missing the point.

The United States was a colony of Great Britain. We rebelled against British rule. By Brit law, this was treason... therefore by Brit law the Founders were traitors and the US Flag was a flag of treason. How many of those who signed the Declaration were hung or shot for treason? Several, IIRC. The US had no legal basis for trying to throw off Brit rule and become its own country.

The Confederate States did much the same. They felt their interests were not being represented properly in Congress and with the Fedgov. Various political maneuvers were tried, including Nullification. Congress passed many laws that benefited the big industrial concerns and big shipping magnates of the Northeast, to the detriment of the agricultural South that needed to export and import freely to maintain its economy. The leaders of the South found themselves in what they felt was an untenable situation, dominated by a central government that was strangling their trade, and they rebelled.

They lost.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm a Southerner, but I'm a patriot. I'm glad that America remains one nation. I'm glad slavery was ended (slavery was not the primary cause of the war, however; just one factor). The average Southern footsoldier did not own any slaves and most considered the war about State's Rights. However I think we swapped one set of evils for another: an overweeningly powerful Fedgov, whose power over the States has grown FAR beyond anything the Founders intended.

I consider the Confederate Battle Flag to be a reminder of all these things, as well as a source of pride that the South fought (for State sovereignty) for four years against an enemy that had them drastically outnumbered and outgunned.

I personally don't fly it, because I am aware that many black folks see it as a symbol of racism and I do not wish to be misunderstood, as I am not at all racist. However, the Confederate flag flies over the Confederate War Memorial on the Capitol grounds not far from the Statehouse in my state (SC).... and I consider that a perfectly appropriate place for it, as a reminder of that war, and what was won, and lost, in it.
 
Josie said:
No, it's simply a historical flag.
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A historical flag that represents a treasonous government. So is Old Glory, but we won, and history is written by the winners.
 
MaggieD said:
Why are you looking up treason?

Secession: (derived from the Latin term secessio) is the act of withdrawing from an organization, union, or especially a political entity.

Secession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Because you said you never thought of secession as treason.

And it turns out that treason is "violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state" which is exactly what the Confederacy was guilty of.
 
Blackdog said:
One persons terrorist is someone elses freedom fighter, but they don't want to see that.
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You just have to look at the values of the group instead of getting caught up in words like that. And the values of the Confederacy were despicable and not something I could ever support. That's why I don't like the flag, and find was glad when Georgia changed our state flag a few years back.
 
Blackdog said:
So now you speak for everyone? :lol:

Wow!
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I think you misread my comment. Read it again. Hint: I didn't say that everyone who flies the flag doesn't want to be a part of this country.
 
theplaydrive said:
I think you misread my comment. Read it again. Hint: I didn't say that everyone who flies the flag doesn't want to be a part of this country.
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No, but you implied it.
 
Blackdog said:
Ummm... no. This thread is not about "treason against the United States."
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Actually it is. Did you not read the title?

The founding father were traitors to the British Crown. You can't ignore history because you want to put blinders on.
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They were traitors. How am I ignoring that? LOL. I see you're trolling again.
 
Your Star said:
You just have to look at the values of the group instead of getting caught up in words like that.
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Instead we are getting caught up in symbols? No difference.

Your Star said:
And the values of the Confederacy were despicable and not something I could ever support.
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Some were, some weren't. I mean if you take out anything about slavery it was far better than what we have now.

Your Star said:
That's why I don't like the flag, and find was glad when Georgia changed our state flag a few years back.
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That's OK.
 
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theplaydrive said:
LOL no. I'm pointing out the irony of those who think they're being patriots by flying the flag of traitors.
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You think they were traitors, others don't. That is what you fail to see.
 
When I read threads such as this, I want to run the Stars and Bars up my non-existent flagpole. :(
 
Goshin said:
Totally missing the point.

The United States was a colony of Great Britain. We rebelled against British rule. By Brit law, this was treason... therefore by Brit law the Founders were traitors and the US Flag was a flag of treason. How many of those who signed the Declaration were hung or shot for treason? Several, IIRC. The US had no legal basis for trying to throw off Brit rule and become its own country.

The Confederate States did much the same. They felt their interests were not being represented properly in Congress and with the Fedgov. Various political maneuvers were tried, including Nullification. Congress passed many laws that benefited the big industrial concerns and big shipping magnates of the Northeast, to the detriment of the agricultural South that needed to export and import freely to maintain its economy. The leaders of the South found themselves in what they felt was an untenable situation, dominated by a central government that was strangling their trade, and they rebelled.

They lost.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm a Southerner, but I'm a patriot. I'm glad that America remains one nation. I'm glad slavery was ended (slavery was not the primary cause of the war, however; just one factor). The average Southern footsoldier did not own any slaves and most considered the war about State's Rights. However I think we swapped one set of evils for another: an overweeningly powerful Fedgov, whose power over the States has grown FAR beyond anything the Founders intended.

I consider the Confederate Battle Flag to be a reminder of all these things, as well as a source of pride that the South fought (for State sovereignty) for four years against an enemy that had them drastically outnumbered and outgunned.

I personally don't fly it, because I am aware that many black folks see it as a symbol of racism and I do not wish to be misunderstood, as I am not at all racist. However, the Confederate flag flies over the Confederate War Memorial on the Capitol grounds not far from the Statehouse in my state (SC).... and I consider that a perfectly appropriate place for it, as a reminder of that war, and what was won, and lost, in it.
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I get the point. You and others aren't getting mine.

It would just as treasonous to fly the American flag in Britain if the US had lost as it is to fly the Confederate flag in the United States.

I'm talking about flying a flag that is treasonous TO THE COUNTRY THAT IT IS BEING FLOWN IN. Obviously, the American flag represents treason to the British flag which is why a British person flying the American flag would be just as ironic as an American flying a Confederate flag.
 
Blackdog said:
You think they were traitors, others don't. That is what you fail to see.
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I don't fail to see that as I talked about those people in the OP. You can disagree with me, but don't accuse me of doing something I'm not.
 
theplaydrive said:
LOL no. I'm pointing out the irony of those who think they're being patriots by flying the flag of traitors.
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I think you put too much weight on those who honor their rich history by flying a flag that left millions of their compatriots dead in the dust.
 
theplaydrive said:
LOL no. I'm pointing out the irony of those who think they're being patriots by flying the flag of traitors.
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They don't care what you think, nor does it matter. It is your opinion and that is fine. Just don't expect others to adapt to your personal reality.
 
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theplaydrive said:
I don't fail to see that as I talked about those people in the OP. You can disagree with me, but don't accuse me of doing something I'm not.
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Yes you talked about it as a negative. I am sorry but you fail to see past your own nose.
 
theplaydrive said:
There are several threads on the Confederate flag that dance around this question.

Many people, usually, if not always, conservatives, argue in favor of the Confederate flag and the desire to fly it or place it within the public domain. Oftentimes, they refer to it as if it is merely an innocent symbol of United States history, a symbol of state's rights, a symbol of fighting against far reaching federal government and sometimes even a symbol of patriotism.
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Yeah, it's called: freedom of expression. You know, that pain in the ass 1st Amendment?
 
MaggieD said:
I think you put too much weight on those who honor their rich history by flying a flag that left millions of their compatriots dead in the dust.
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You mean the slaves that died under slavery? I'm a southerner, but I never got flying the confederate flag, it's not a flag of freedom, or states rights, it's a flag of oppression.
 
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