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Does America Need A New 21st Century Immigration Policy?

Would you consider the new immigration standards suggested in the OP?

  • Yes

    Votes: 9 69.2%

  • No

    Votes: 3 23.1%

  • Maybe, if it was less extreme

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • Total voters
    13
samsmart said:
No, not at all.

You see, the immigrant migrant workers make a ****load of money doing it.

Yes, it's not a whole lot of money compared to our standards of living. However, to them, they can save the money and live pretty well when they take that money back to wherever they're from. This is because of the different exchange rates between the US and the countries that those migrant workers come from.

So while a US citizen can't live on those wages year-round here in the US, a migrant worker can work 6 months and take that money and live pretty well for the next 6 months he spends at his homeland.
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I gotcha...migrant workers DESERVE to get paid **** wages to do jobs no AMERICAN would deign themselves to do. that speaks volumes...about the Americans that refuse to work and you.
 
VanceMack said:
I gotcha...migrant workers DESERVE to get paid **** wages to do jobs no AMERICAN would deign themselves to do. that speaks volumes...about the Americans that refuse to work and you.
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tsk tsk

American used to do all of these jobs prior to wages being driven down due to the supply of near slave wage seekers seeking to do anything to make a buck.
 
VanceMack said:
I gotcha...migrant workers DESERVE to get paid **** wages to do jobs no AMERICAN would deign themselves to do. that speaks volumes...about the Americans that refuse to work and you.
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Are you purposefully not reading what I post?

I said that migrant workers make a lot of money - at least compared to what they can get paid in their own country.

On the wages that migrant workers make in the US working for 6 months they can afford to live here pretty sparingly and then spend the next 6 months in their home country. This is because their dollars are worth more in their home country that the dollar is worth in the US.

However, they cannot stay here in the US year-round on those same wages. The annual costs are simply too high for them.

So they come over here, do the migrant work, live sparingly in small housing, usually rented. They may also buy some goods unavailable in their home country to take back, which helps our economy. Then with that cash they head back home and do some other work but have a healthy savings that will last them until the next 6 months. At which point they come back and do that migrant work again.
 
Bodhisattva said:
tsk tsk

American used to do all of these jobs prior to wages being driven down due to the supply of near slave wage seekers seeking to do anything to make a buck.
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Its so NICE we dont have to deal with all the ships...chains...and the specter of ACTUAL slavery when we can dangle a few baubles and bring in all this nice cheap brown labor.
 
samsmart said:
Are you purposefully not reading what I post?

I said that migrant workers make a lot of money - at least compared to what they can get paid in their own country.

On the wages that migrant workers make in the US working for 6 months they can afford to live here pretty sparingly and then spend the next 6 months in their home country. This is because their dollars are worth more in their home country that the dollar is worth in the US.

However, they cannot stay here in the US year-round on those same wages. The annual costs are simply too high for them.

So they come over here, do the migrant work, live sparingly in small housing, usually rented. They may also buy some goods unavailable in their home country to take back, which helps our economy. Then with that cash they head back home and do some other work but have a healthy savings that will last them until the next 6 months. At which point they come back and do that migrant work again.
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Oh yes...I get EXACTLY what you are saying. And hey...child labor in foreign countries is CERTAINLY acceptable since without the child labor they wouldnt have anything. I get you. Indeed...THATS the answer to our immigration policy...more cheap labor. And all those riches they make...that money gets sent...where? Thats right...OUT of the economy. This all just keeps getting better and better.
 
VanceMack said:
Oh yes...I get EXACTLY what you are saying. And hey...child labor in foreign countries is CERTAINLY acceptable since without the child labor they wouldnt have anything. I get you. Indeed...THATS the answer to our immigration policy...more cheap labor. And all those riches they make...that money gets sent...where? Thats right...OUT of the economy. This all just keeps getting better and better.
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Err, no. Immigrant migrant workers here doesn't mean child labor elsewhere.

And, actually, migrant workers are helpful to the economy because they purchase goods here at the stores to take back home. So they still spend money here and help fuel the economy.
 
samsmart said:
Err, no. Immigrant migrant workers here doesn't mean child labor elsewhere.

And, actually, migrant workers are helpful to the economy because they purchase goods here at the stores to take back home. So they still spend money here and help fuel the economy.
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Sure they do...they spend a little of that little bit they earn here and send what they can back home. So...slave labor is a win win. Again...I getcha.
 
VanceMack said:
Sure they do...they spend a little of that little bit they earn here and send what they can back home. So...slave labor is a win win. Again...I getcha.
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No. They spend a good deal of what they earn here on goods they can't get back home. Stereos, video games, ipods and the like. They also spend their money on other essentials, such as food, beverages, and housing.

And, again, it's not slave labor - what they earn gives them a good living when they're back at their home country because of the exchange rate.
 
samsmart said:
No. They spend a good deal of what they earn here on goods they can't get back home. Stereos, video games, ipods and the like. They also spend their money on other essentials, such as food, beverages, and housing.

And, again, it's not slave labor - what they earn gives them a good living when they're back at their home country because of the exchange rate.
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Migrant workers? They are spending all that money on convenience goods? You sure about that? But hey...as long as you can justify in your own mind bringing in cheap labor to do the job "no American would do" and pay them crap wages...Im fine with it.
 
VanceMack said:
Its so NICE we dont have to deal with all the ships...chains...and the specter of ACTUAL slavery when we can dangle a few baubles and bring in all this nice cheap brown labor.
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60 Minutes did a story about a factory in Nebraska that 20 years ago was paying 20? dollars an hour for a floor job and the town was 97% white and now, 20 years later the same job commands a whopping 10 dollars an hour and the town is 80% or so latino. This is not unusual either. Play all the emotional games you like though... :)
 
VanceMack said:
Migrant workers? They are spending all that money on convenience goods? You sure about that? But hey...as long as you can justify in your own mind bringing in cheap labor to do the job "no American would do" and pay them crap wages...Im fine with it.
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Well, everything I've said is true.

In fact, there's crops rotting in Arkansas or Alabama (can't remember which) because all the migrant workers aren't coming back because of tighter immigration rules. A few billion is projected in losses. Which is much more money that is lost over the money the migrant workers would take with them.
 
wow...This thread sure got off subject fast.

Anyway, Im out of here. Ive got work to do.

Later everybody.
 
samsmart said:
Well, everything I've said is true.

In fact, there's crops rotting in Arkansas or Alabama (can't remember which) because all the migrant workers aren't coming back because of tighter immigration rules. A few billion is projected in losses. Which is much more money that is lost over the money the migrant workers would take with them.
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Speaks volumes about American 'workers'. Speaks volumes about the value some people place on that cheap brown slave labor. No biggie...we are doing them a favor.
 
Bodhisattva said:
60 Minutes did a story about a factory in Nebraska that 20 years ago was paying 20? dollars an hour for a floor job and the town was 97% white and now, 20 years later the same job commands a whopping 10 dollars an hour and the town is 80% or so latino. This is not unusual either. Play all the emotional games you like though... :)
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Emotional games? Im stating straight up reality. That cheap brown labor (hey...BTW...10$ an hour...thats MORE than minimum wage, right) and this mindset that we are justified in paying slave labor to do the job no AMERICAN would deign themselves to do is part of the problem
 
VanceMack said:
Speaks volumes about American 'workers'. Speaks volumes about the value some people place on that cheap brown slave labor. No biggie...we are doing them a favor.
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Please explain how paying a person enough wages where they can live in the US for half the year and then live in their home country for the other half of the year in relative comfort, as well as being able to buy consumer goods unavailable in their home country, "slave labor."
 
samsmart said:
Please explain how paying a person enough wages where they can live in the US for half the year and then live in their home country for the other half of the year in relative comfort, as well as being able to buy consumer goods unavailable in their home country, "slave labor."
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Are they being paid wages 'no American would accept' to do a job 'no American would do'? Yeah...that. Justifying slave labor because hey...they have it a lot worse in their country is...well...kinda sad. Good thing we have plenty of people living in misery in their home country to exploit for that cheap labor. And hey...its always a plus when you ship American dollars OUT of the US economy. Thats GOT to help with the future job market, housing, etc...
 
VanceMack said:
Are they being paid wages 'no American would accept' to do a job 'no American would do'? Yeah...that. Justifying slave labor because hey...they have it a lot worse in their country is...well...kinda sad. Good thing we have plenty of people living in misery in their home country to exploit for that cheap labor. And hey...its always a plus when you ship American dollars OUT of the US economy. Thats GOT to help with the future job market, housing, etc...
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Oh, so you're a supporter of the legalization of all recreational drugs so the nations these poor immigrants come from will be able to export their recreational pharmaceutical products to here in the US so they can use that as an economic stimulus to increase their nation's prosperity. Glad to learn that.
 
VanceMack said:
Are they being paid wages 'no American would accept' to do a job 'no American would do'? Yeah...that. Justifying slave labor because hey...they have it a lot worse in their country is...well...kinda sad. Good thing we have plenty of people living in misery in their home country to exploit for that cheap labor. And hey...its always a plus when you ship American dollars OUT of the US economy. Thats GOT to help with the future job market, housing, etc...
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"Slave labor" is a term that's thrown around a lot, and often misused. A slave is not someone who is willing to work for less than other people. A slave is coerced into their job and treated like property. This does not fit the vast majority of illegal immigrants. Some illegal migrants are actually caught up in real slavery schemes in this country, and it's horrible. However, this has more to do with immigration laws pushing them into a seedy, underground economy. As for the vast majority, many risk their lives and go through great hardship to come here. They have to overcome separation from loved ones, pursuit from law enforcement, and difficult living conditions, and yet millions of them still come. If anything, this desperation for work would discredit claims of widespread slavery.
 
Our government can try to pick immigrants based upon factors like education, which fields will be desirable in the future (whatever the hell those are going to be), or current income. It seems like a good idea to just allow in the people that will do the most "good" for society, again an extremely subjective term. The problem is that everyone else still wants to get in. You can impose restrictions on employers, militarize the border, and step up deportations. Millions will still get past it. Half of illegal immigrants came here legally and overstayed their welcome, and the border with Mexico is 2,000 miles long; I can tell you from numerous urban exploration trips, that evading security isn't the most difficult thing in the world. The numbers may be reduced, and that is a reason to step up enforcement, as long as its cost effective. However, millions of people will still make it in, and due to an immigration process that only accepts the "best and brightest," they will have very little economic opportunity. These people cause problems precisely because they are not allowed to rise up. Allow them to make something more of themselves by liberalizing our immigration policy. I'm not saying that there should be no registration process at all, but a door needs to be open for unskilled workers.
 
teamosil said:
I don't know as much about the Alabama case. Let me read the opinion and get back to you.



Depends what you mean by "help with illegal immigration". It certainly improves the quality of life of the people in the city. You don't have undocumented immigrant communities that are afraid to go to the police to report crime because they might get deported in sanctuary cities, for example, but that's a huge problem in many places that haven't adopted those kinds of policies.
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this is where we part. Quality of life for an illegal immigrant is of little concern for me. Now quality of life for legal immigrants or guest workers is a different story. Basically, you seem to support those that have broken our laws by being illegal in this country. If they were legally in this country they would have no reason to fear law enforcement.
 
mike2810 said:
this is where we part. Quality of life for an illegal immigrant is of little concern for me.
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Even so, having an entire community in a city you live in that can't report crimes to the cops is detrimental to your quality of life too. It creates a safe harbor for all kinds of criminal enterprises that affect everybody in the city. The criminals aren't necessarily undocumented immigrants nor are their victims.

But yeah, to some extent we do still part ways there. I honestly don't understand how somebody could completely write off other human beings just because of some paperwork problem. These are families. Kids that were born here, grandmothers that have lived here since they were babies, good, hard working, people. To just say you don't care one iota about how they live just seems crazy to me...
 
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samsmart said:
Oh, so you're a supporter of the legalization of all recreational drugs so the nations these poor immigrants come from will be able to export their recreational pharmaceutical products to here in the US so they can use that as an economic stimulus to increase their nation's prosperity. Glad to learn that.
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Nice attempt at diversion from the simple fact that you endorse paying non-Americans less and paying Americans to NOT work.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
"Slave labor" is a term that's thrown around a lot, and often misused. A slave is not someone who is willing to work for less than other people. A slave is coerced into their job and treated like property. This does not fit the vast majority of illegal immigrants. Some illegal migrants are actually caught up in real slavery schemes in this country, and it's horrible. However, this has more to do with immigration laws pushing them into a seedy, underground economy. As for the vast majority, many risk their lives and go through great hardship to come here. They have to overcome separation from loved ones, pursuit from law enforcement, and difficult living conditions, and yet millions of them still come. If anything, this desperation for work would discredit claims of widespread slavery.
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Gotcha. So...because they are desperate we can justify paying those low wages.
 
Nazi Germany had a pretty impressive immigration policy which I'm sure a lot of "tough on the border" supporters would enjoy.

"Illegal" immigration is a strawman intended to keep the sheep around the world bickering amongst themselves so they don't realize the enormous fence they are willingly erecting around them. The problem with a fence is that it not only keeps people out but it also keeps people in.
 
teamosil said:
The significant majority of federal judges are conservative appointees, so if there is political bias, it's going the opposite way from what you think.
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Do you mind sourcing that piece of info? I'm staring at a list of 1238 appointees, and I'm not seeing an R, D, or I next to anyone's name.
 
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