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Is America arrogant?

Is America arrogant?

  • No, not at all

    Votes: 9 10.1%
  • May be a little

    Votes: 13 14.6%
  • Yes, it is

    Votes: 41 46.1%
  • Oh, very arrogant

    Votes: 20 22.5%
  • I can't decide

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 6 6.7%

  • Total voters
    89
It is merely a myth that Hitler was close to having the Atomic bomb. It would ahve been at least another decade before the Germans even had a prototype. Delivery systems, yes, but no A-bomb.
Although US aid was important, it was not the most vital, it was more of a token gesture. The Soviet industrial power and sheer manpower won the war

This is very true. Hitler's atomic bomb program stalled on it's own:
German nuclear energy project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Germany, on the other hand, a great many young scientists and technicians who would have been of great use to such a project were conscripted into the German armed forces, while others had fled the country before the war due to antisemitism and political persecution.

Germany fell short of what was required to make an atomic bomb.

While I wouldn't say Russia won the war against Germany by herself, Russia's efforts were vital to the relatively quick win, and it's efforts are vastly under reported. Russia's massive numbers of troops and massive numbers of it's spectacular T-34 (best overall tank of ww2) were critical in the battle of Kursk (largest tank battle ever). So I think it's important to give a tip of the hat to Russia.
 
wow I love this chicken and the egg argument you have with Americans about WW2 who obviously have a limited understanding of the conflict.
1.If the UK doesnt win the battle of Britain hitler launches operation sea lion and invades the UK so D-Day never happens
2. If the UK doesnt win in north africa there is no southern Italian campaign cutting off anyone entrance for America into Europe and leaving the allies with no launching point
3. If the Russians dont stop the Germans at the gates of Moscow Germans run all over Europe and then can help their friend Japan turn on the US attacking from both sides and using the superior U-Boats to cut of americas trade.
4. America actually gave the russians not that much during WW2
5. As for rest of the allies they should be kissing americas hand forever because you supplied us weapons while we were fighting evil at a very high intrest rate?

Every country involved in WW2 knows it was a joint effort and without eachother we would not have won, every country except the US that is.

O.k. the truth comes out with #5. The US has no right to receive that much credit then, is that your argument? I mean I realize the cumbersome position I'm taking touting America's involvement as the French resistance would have taken care of Germany themselves prior to D-Day And England would have taken North Africa without US supplies and wouldn't have starved or faced that much hardship without the liberty ships. It wasn't enough for Europe to throw the entire world into their conflict in WW1, so they have to create WW2 and their sympathizers like you lecture us about being arrogant because we take pride in our involvement. I would rather take Churchill's word for it, who recognized immediately the war won when the US entered, than this B.S. position that seems to marginalize our efforts dealing with Europe's failures. Russia was lucky for our help with supplies and to fight Japan who was a threat to their back door who handed their asses to them in the past, but I understand now. England, France and Russia were doing a superb job without America and we were arrogant for even stepping foot on Europe's soil.
 
O.k. the truth comes out with #5. The US has no right to receive that much credit then, is that your argument? I mean I realize the cumbersome position I'm taking touting America's involvement as the French resistance would have taken care of Germany themselves prior to D-Day And England would have taken North Africa without US supplies and wouldn't have starved or faced that much hardship without the liberty ships. It wasn't enough for Europe to throw the entire world into their conflict in WW1, so they have to create WW2 and their sympathizers like you lecture us about being arrogant because we take pride in our involvement. I would rather take Churchill's word for it, who recognized immediately the war won when the US entered, than this B.S. position that seems to marginalize our efforts dealing with Europe's failures. Russia was lucky for our help with supplies and to fight Japan who was a threat to their back door who handed their asses to them in the past, but I understand now. England, France and Russia were doing a superb job without America and we were arrogant for even stepping foot on Europe's soil.

I think Higgins made his intent clear with the last line, just after #5, which was:
Every country involved in WW2 knows it was a joint effort and without eachother we would not have won, every country except the US that is.

He clearly states "it was a joint effort." So he wasn't marginalizing the US, he was pointing out we shouldn't marginalize the "other Allies" in the effort.

Yeah, we could've won it without help but it would've been 1948, with 1 Million Americans dead instead of 450K, by the time we got the job done. We would've dropped The Bomb in a bunch more places too. Maybe that makes me an Arrogant American, and if so, then so be it. But I'm not so arrogant that I can't give my teammates an "attaboy!" and a pat on the back. I'm very thankful to our allies for their fabulous contributions. I think we can be cocky about our country and still give "props" to others.
 
I feel my point is important yet it is being overlooked.

How are we to judge a nation as arrogant? If we try to measure, should we not use numbers?

If so then I argue that the majority of Americans are not arrogant. There are more poor than rich. There are also people like farmers, etc who are not arrogant. I will go further in saying that not all rich folk are arrogant; some can be quite modest/humble.
 
I feel my point is important yet it is being overlooked.

How are we to judge a nation as arrogant? If we try to measure, should we not use numbers?

If so then I argue that the majority of Americans are not arrogant. There are more poor than rich. There are also people like farmers, etc who are not arrogant. I will go further in saying that not all rich folk are arrogant; some can be quite modest/humble.

Arrogance is a behavior.

Our government could adopt policies that are arrogant in nature - and individuals can be arrogant. But individuals being arrogant doens't make *all* of the US arrogant.

And on a nationwide scale I don't think it's possible to judge one way or the other regarding "the people being arrogant"
 
I feel my point is important yet it is being overlooked.

How are we to judge a nation as arrogant? If we try to measure, should we not use numbers?

If so then I argue that the majority of Americans are not arrogant. There are more poor than rich. There are also people like farmers, etc who are not arrogant. I will go further in saying that not all rich folk are arrogant; some can be quite modest/humble.

So how do you apply the numbers? And how do you do it when you point out (and rightly so) that not all the rich are arrogant? By contrast, not all the poor are humble. How do you account for them?
 
So how do you apply the numbers? And how do you do it when you point out (and rightly so) that not all the rich are arrogant? By contrast, not all the poor are humble. How do you account for them?

Since it seems impossible to quantify "arrogance," what are your thoughts? Do you think America is arrogant or not? Most importantly, though, I'm interested in how you'd measure such a thing.
 
Since it seems impossible to quantify "arrogance," what are your thoughts? Do you think America is arrogant or not? Most importantly, though, I'm interested in how you'd measure such a thing.

Overall I think America is arrogant. We are also largely ignorant about other countries. I think most of the arrogance is triggered by the ignorance. If people knew more about other countries we wouldn't be so cocky. I think the best solution would be for more Americans to travel and spend time with the common people there, rather than the "Americanized" resort hotels. But, as we have seen even in this thread, not everybody is willing to do that.

I have no scientific basis for this. It's the result of the people I know and what I have observed in news and forums like this. If we "wanted" to know, a poll should be devised that is applied to people of varying regions, ethnicities, and economic statuses. The questions of this poll should stated in a way that triggers an arrogant response while leaving possible answers for a more humble response. That's how I would do it.
 
Overall I think America is arrogant. We are also largely ignorant about other countries. I think most of the arrogance is triggered by the ignorance. If people knew more about other countries we wouldn't be so cocky. I think the best solution would be for more Americans to travel and spend time with the common people there, rather than the "Americanized" resort hotels. But, as we have seen even in this thread, not everybody is willing to do that.

I have no scientific basis for this. It's the result of the people I know and what I have observed in news and forums like this. If we "wanted" to know, a poll should be devised that is applied to people of varying regions, ethnicities, and economic statuses. The questions of this poll should stated in a way that triggers an arrogant response while leaving possible answers for a more humble response. That's how I would do it.

How typical...we are proud not arrogant. But today, in this politically correct vacuum we live in, it is considered crass to be proud...unless of course you want to call someone else racist, then it's alright to be proud. Being humble is great for a Quaker; humility is overrated and rather passe'. People worldwide want to come here...they climb fences to come here to enjoy what we have and you whine about it...this is beyond odd. be thankful you were born here and not in some shack in Poland or worse yet, India. Bunch ' cry babies.
 
Since it seems impossible to quantify "arrogance," what are your thoughts? Do you think America is arrogant or not? Most importantly, though, I'm interested in how you'd measure such a thing.

The same way you measure arrogance in a person. The traits of human existence don't vanish at a collective level, responsibility for them just becomes more widely distributed.

Two factors in such self-importance are (1) the nature of the collective achievements of the American people and (2) one's personal 'contributions' to such achievements. Since a single individual is unlikely to contribute much materially to the historical achievements of an entire nation, we evaluate their 'right' to claim in the successes from how well their behavior reflected the spirit of their nation's cultural aspirations. For one possible example, how well they lived up to the ideals and prescriptions of the, "American Dream."
 
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The same way you measure arrogance in a person.

I do not mean to be rude, but how exactly does one do that for a nation, especially when the majority isn't arrogant?
 
I do not mean to be rude, but how exactly does one do that for a nation, especially when the majority isn't arrogant?

I edited my post.

The traits of human existence don't vanish at a collective level, responsibility for them just becomes more widely distributed.

Two factors in such self-importance are (1) the nature of the collective achievements of the American people and (2) one's personal 'contributions' to such achievements. Since a single individual is unlikely to contribute much materially to the historical achievements of an entire nation, we evaluate their 'right' to claim in the successes from how well their behavior reflected the spirit of their nation's cultural aspirations. For one possible example, how well they lived up to the ideals and prescriptions of the, "American Dream." Living up to the American Dream is, in itself, proof of the viability of the ideal, which assists the country as a whole in believing in/attaining the goal. In terms of overall utility, it is a small contribution, but the best most individuals are able to give, and one that entitles them to a share in national pride.

But, even in the cases where a person contributed heavily to the actual historical achievements of an entire nation (like a president or congressmen), the collective character of the achievement should always moderate the degree of their pride in the event. Even presidents and congressmen could not achieve what they do without the complicity and support of the American people. This rule is all the more true for average citizens, who don't influence events through elected offices.

A firmly moderated pride, that is mindful of its ability to contribute to success, could be described as, "self-confidence." A pride that seeks pleasure in thoughts of its superiority, either personally or by association with an entity like the United States (via citizenship), is arrogance.
 
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I edited my post.

The traits of human existence don't vanish at a collective level, responsibility for them just becomes more widely distributed.

Two factors in such self-importance are (1) the nature of the collective achievements of the American people and (2) one's personal 'contributions' to such achievements. Since a single individual is unlikely to contribute much materially to the historical achievements of an entire nation, we evaluate their 'right' to claim in the successes from how well their behavior reflected the spirit of their nation's cultural aspirations. For one possible example, how well they lived up to the ideals and prescriptions of the, "American Dream."

So, I can understand your statement in a certain sense, but there are still questions lingering. Wouldn't China and Russia and Japan be almost as arrogant as America? What exactly and how are we measuring arrogance? As in which type. We have the drop out who has a false sense of arrogance when he assumes a leadership position in Burger King. We hav the child who plays Yu-Gi-Oh! who, having a few better cards, is now arrogant and believes he cannot be beaten. We have the crusty old businessman who like is arrogant in that he believes his stature and wealth makes him so much better than others. What, ideally, is the kind of arrogance we measure?

Is the American Dream really that arrogant? Or is it that socialists and communists in foreign nations despise the American Dream because they have differing view points/worldviews?

Also, to me, there is a distinct difference between arrogance...

...and pride.
 
So, I can understand your statement in a certain sense, but there are still questions lingering. Wouldn't China and Russia and Japan be almost as arrogant as America?

Doesn't matter. Arrogance is a vice that must be tamed, and if possible, destroyed as quickly as one encounters it on oneself, whether as a person or as a nation. What other people do, or are, is irrelevant to that point.

What exactly and how are we measuring arrogance? As in which type. We have the drop out who has a false sense of arrogance when he assumes a leadership position in Burger King. We hav the child who plays Yu-Gi-Oh! who, having a few better cards, is now arrogant and believes he cannot be beaten. We have the crusty old businessman who like is arrogant in that he believes his stature and wealth makes him so much better than others. What, ideally, is the kind of arrogance we measure?

Arrogance is an emotion (intention), and a behavior (action) that arises in any applicable situation, whether one is a deluded manager of a Burger King or sitting passively in one's couch imagining the faultless glory of the American people.

Is the American Dream really that arrogant? Or is it that socialists and communists in foreign nations despise the American Dream because they have differing view points/worldviews?

My citation of the American Dream is just an awkward way of making a point relatable, and its arrogance is limited to how it is popularly (and, at an individual level, personally) conceived and practiced.

Also, to me, there is a distinct difference between arrogance...

...and pride.

Pride is just a general term for a string of sensations and behaviors where one (1) takes pleasure in one's achievements (2) develops a conscious understanding that these achievements increase their value as a person. Self-confidence develops the emotion to the point where one gets a functional comprehension of one's abilities. It ends (and humility begins) when one encounters a situation that exceeds their ability to handle, or at least, which poses a serious challenge to such ability. Arrogance carries pride past that point, to the extent it is incapable of acknowledging both internal and external limits. In everyday behavior, this manifests itself in In certain individuals habitually treating others with derision, valuing neither their time, thoughts, or help, but often depending on these things in one way or another to realize ambitions. Prima donna actors, for example, don't value the assistance of "the help," but nonetheless are very dependent on "the help" to succeed.

At a national level, it manifests itself as an unwillingness to believe that the nation has made grave errors in its handling of different situations, particularly its treatment of other human beings. I would suggest Native American policies during the 19th century, and putting down democratic movements in the Middle East during the Cold War, as examples. In these cases, an arrogant person is psychologically incapable of recognizing the political entity he identifies and associates himself with has done evil.

I often consider such delusion more evil than the evil action itself. It should be common knowledge that human beings have evil in them, which must be conquered, but denying the reality of it to such an extent suggests an unwillingness to acknowledge the evil in oneself and improve upon it which I find diabolical. You might take Holocaust denial as a comparison.
 
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You are interesting, Morality Games.

What then, in general terms, is the best course of action for correcting such arrogance?

Also, if we correct arrogance, should we then feel it necessary to correct other vices?
 
How typical
[...]
...they climb fences to come here to enjoy what we have and you whine about it...this is beyond odd. be thankful you were born here and not in some shack in Poland or worse yet, India. Bunch ' cry babies.

Look before you leap, kid. I never "whined" about how unfair it all is. I was asked for a general assessment and I made it. I never said I wasn't proud. In fact I'm proud because I've traveled firsthand and can make a proper comparison. Other people that refuse to see firsthand but still go "rah rah" are just arrogant. Check these posts to see if I'm in the habit of whining...then come back and apologize:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...indmills-stopped-night-after-bat-death-5.html
(page 5, post #45)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/110385-america-arrogant-13.html
(page 13, post #128)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ould-deploy-navy-near-u-s-coast-report-5.html
(page 5, post #44)
 
I think Higgins made his intent clear with the last line, just after #5, which was:


He clearly states "it was a joint effort." So he wasn't marginalizing the US, he was pointing out we shouldn't marginalize the "other Allies" in the effort.

Yeah, we could've won it without help but it would've been 1948, with 1 Million Americans dead instead of 450K, by the time we got the job done. We would've dropped The Bomb in a bunch more places too. Maybe that makes me an Arrogant American, and if so, then so be it. But I'm not so arrogant that I can't give my teammates an "attaboy!" and a pat on the back. I'm very thankful to our allies for their fabulous contributions. I think we can be cocky about our country and still give "props" to others.

True, we need to give credit where it's due. England had a lot of balls standing up to Germany after Hitler invaded Poland... I took issue with the fact that they stated that we are forever lording over the allies, (Being Arrogant) which I don't think we do, but at the same time feel that we should be able to get a few digs in here and there due to their failures that led to both wars and our efforts after the 2nd one to keep the Communists in their place because not one of our allies could have stopped Stalin from dominating Europe except for...that's right: USA. I had dinner with a Belgian contact recently and he said the same thing or shared the same sentiments of some of the posters here. He feels like the US expects so much in return and told me "we thank the US, but now the US needs to just mind their own business", but the failures of the allies essentially made Europe our business right?
 
Doesn't matter. Arrogance is a vice that must be tamed, and if possible, destroyed as quickly as one encounters it on oneself, whether as a person or as a nation. What other people do, or are, is irrelevant to that point.



Arrogance is an emotion (intention), and a behavior (action) that arises in any applicable situation, whether one is a deluded manager of a Burger King or sitting passively in one's couch imagining the faultless glory of the American people.



My citation of the American Dream is just an awkward way of making a point relatable, and its arrogance is limited to how it is popularly (and, at an individual level, personally) conceived and practiced.



Pride is just a general term for a string of sensations and behaviors where one (1) takes pleasure in one's achievements (2) develops a conscious understanding that these achievements increase their value as a person. Self-confidence develops the emotion to the point where one gets a functional comprehension of one's abilities. It ends (and humility begins) when one encounters a situation that exceeds their ability to handle, or at least, which poses a serious challenge to such ability. Arrogance carries pride past that point, to the extent it is incapable of acknowledging both internal and external limits. In everyday behavior, this manifests itself in In certain individuals habitually treating others with derision, valuing neither their time, thoughts, or help, but often depending on these things in one way or another to realize ambitions. Prima donna actors, for example, don't value the assistance of "the help," but nonetheless are very dependent on "the help" to succeed.

At a national level, it manifests itself as an unwillingness to believe that the nation has made grave errors in its handling of different situations, particularly its treatment of other human beings. I would suggest Native American policies during the 19th century, and putting down democratic movements in the Middle East during the Cold War, as examples. In these cases, an arrogant person is psychologically incapable of recognizing the political entity he identifies and associates himself with has done evil.

I often consider such delusion more evil than the evil action itself. It should be common knowledge that human beings have evil in them, which must be conquered, but denying the reality of it to such an extent suggests an unwillingness to acknowledge the evil in oneself and improve upon it which I find diabolical. You might take Holocaust denial as a comparison.

Spectactular post, Games.
 
True, we need to give credit where it's due. England had a lot of balls standing up to Germany after Hitler invaded Poland... I took issue with the fact that they stated that we are forever lording over the allies, (Being Arrogant) which I don't think we do, but at the same time feel that we should be able to get a few digs in here and there due to their failures that led to both wars and our efforts after the 2nd one to keep the Communists in their place because not one of our allies could have stopped Stalin from dominating Europe except for...that's right: USA. I had dinner with a Belgian contact recently and he said the same thing or shared the same sentiments of some of the posters here. He feels like the US expects so much in return and told me "we thank the US, but now the US needs to just mind their own business", but the failures of the allies essentially made Europe our business right?

Germany declared war on the US that is what made it your business
 
Germany declared war on the US that is what made it your business

Well, yeah??? I mean, when the League of Nations failed to stop Germany, and appeasement didn't work, and when France and England had their asses handed to them at Dunkirk, the US had to do something right? And I know the 5 lbs of flour that we gave to England and the 2 jeeps that we gave to the Russians through lend lease wasn't that much to help the allies, so we ultimately had to join the war and make Euro affairs our business once again, so you are correct in your point. How can we leave the Euro's to manage their own affairs after WW1 and 2. If we went home, no marshal plan, no bases etc. what do you think Europe would be like now?
 
Germany declared war on the US that is what made it your business

The US was already supplying Britain before the US entered ww2:
Lend-Lease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Convoy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Prior to overt participation in WWII, the US was actively engaged in convoys with the British in the North Atlantic Ocean, primarily supporting British activities in Iceland. This was discussed by John T. Flynn in his 1944 work "The Truth About Pearl Harbor"

Roosevelt wanted to get involved in the war well before the US actually did, but Congress refused to agree. Lend Lease meant the US had already thrown in it's lot with Britain against Nazi Germany well before any declaration of war. By declaring war on Japan on Dec 8, 1941, the US, in effect, declared war on Germany and Italy since they were members of the tripartite pact. It was mere formality that Germany later declared war on the US and vice-versa.

I don't know that it was Europe's failure that drew the US in. Japan and Germany had been engaging in hostile actions before the start of ww2. Japan had been in China since 1932 and had made another thrust into China in 1937, which the US protested. Germany had already launched Operation Barbarossa and thus had attacked Russia before the US entered the war. Germany was behaving like a spoiled kid with ADHD on a sugar rush. It needed to be brought to heel.
 
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I think all countries have a sense of arrogants or a lack of understanding of others cultures. For instance, last night while listening to a live stream, the caster told a story. This professional came over from Europe to play in a MLG tournament for the first time. He gets off the plane in a white suite/white cowboy boots/with a white jacket slung over his shoulder. He gets picked up by the caster and the first thing he says is, "I'm here to party, are you ready to party?" Obviously arrogant but we do the same thing to when we go to other countries. While some of us would try to respect others culture, just by being an American we are disrespecting their culture in how we talk/eat/walk/drive/etc etc. Things are done differently in different countries, and it may not be considered "arrogant" here but it will definitely be considered "arrogant" where you go.
 
Well, yeah??? I mean, when the League of Nations failed to stop Germany, and appeasement didn't work, and when France and England had their asses handed to them at Dunkirk, the US had to do something right? And I know the 5 lbs of flour that we gave to England and the 2 jeeps that we gave to the Russians through lend lease wasn't that much to help the allies, so we ultimately had to join the war and make Euro affairs our business once again, so you are correct in your point. How can we leave the Euro's to manage their own affairs after WW1 and 2. If we went home, no marshal plan, no bases etc. what do you think Europe would be like now?
Your knowledge of history is, well... interesting.
 
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