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Ammunition

Should all ammunition be legal?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 51.4%

  • No

    Votes: 17 48.6%
  • Total voters
    35
Goshin said:
Find me ONE case of BGs using a full auto weapon with tracer rounds in a night-fight with cops and we'll talk about it. :lol:


(FMJs are "full metal jacket" or "hardball". HP is "hollowpoint". HPs are what you want in your handgun.)
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I guess you are right here, the only people that would be able to take advantage of the tracer round would be military. Everyone else is just lacking the training to use it properly.
 
Jryan said:
After doing some research, I found this Winchester Ranger T. Should everyone be able to buy that?
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I'll have to Google, even I don't know every single type and brand of ammo on the market.... hold on....

Mmmkay...


Review: Winchester Ranger T-Series 45 ACP Self Defense Ammo
Potent and Rock Solid 45 ACP Law Enforcement Ammunition
Dan S. Defense,
The origin of the T-series began with the famous or infamous Talon line that started as general self defense ammo and later pulled off the market after being demonized by the media. In reality, the Black Talon wasn't a very effective bullet because it didn't expand as expected, especially after encountering a few layers of denim..... Winchester invested significant resources in analyzing the problems of the Black Talon and later developed the SXT line which turned out to be far superior to the Black Talon. The T-Series continues the legacy as advanced self defense ammo coveted by law enforcement and serious individuals.

The Winchester Ranger T-Series utilizes a reverse taper jacket design that manages to produce consistent and reliable bullet expansion through several test barriers. Whether the barrier be denim or a car's windshield or dry wall or even steel, the advanced Winchester Ranger ammo penetrates and expands in a consistent and impressive manner. In addition to these critical properties, the Winchester Ranger line offer excellent accuracy with smooth feeding in any good handgun. Reliability is legendary ....You need to be sure you can maintain high level of accuracy with the bullet of your choice and keep in mind that both types of bullet are exceptionally potent. For example, the T-Series will penetrate heavy clothing as far as 12.3" and expand 0.75" while retaining 100% of its initial weight with perfect expansion. The +P bullet will penetrate 15.7" and expand 0.78" against the same type of barrier. You can view the entire set of tests as well as see the recovered bullet under this excellent Winchester ammo test tool.
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I checked their ammo test stats on the Ranger T bullet. The stats are about penetration of denim, heavy cloth and wallboard, not kevlar vests.

Give me a good reason citizens should be banned from using this ammo?
 
I checked their ammo test stats on the Ranger T bullet. The stats are about penetration of denim, heavy cloth and wallboard, not kevlar vests.

Give me a good reason citizens should be banned from using this ammo?
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This is a one shot one kill bullet. This would give no chance for officers to respond.
 
Jryan said:
This is a one shot one kill bullet. This would give no chance for officers to respond.
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:doh Have you been listening? There is no such thing. I could take a Ranger T in the arm or leg and keep shooting back. If one hit me through the upper chest and pierced my lung but missed my heart and major arteries, I could probably shoot back. If they got me through the heart or aorta or spine or brain or femoral artery, I'm probably done for no matter what kind of bullet we're talking about.

Load a .45 handgun with a Ranger T hollowpoint round. Then compare it to a bolt-action 30-06 deer rifle. I guarantee you the deer rifle will penetrate a standard police vest... the RangerT might or might not, it isn't advertised as a vest-penetrating round. The deer rifle bullet will likely do more damage through yaw and hydrostatic shock, and the rifle bullet is MORE likely to result in instant or rapid incapacitation through affecting blood pressure.

If you're so worried about all this, you should start with banning all rifle ammo. That's not going to endear you to millions of hunters and sportsmen. Then you'd better ban shotguns, because they're pretty devastating.


So it makes a bigger hole than most handgun bullets. As long as the hole is in the OTHER guy, I'm fine with that. The key to making sure it is the OTHER GUY that gets holes in him has nothing to do with ammo; it has to do with awareness, readiness, judgement, tactics, and skill with arms.


Like I said in the the other thread... we're talking about WEAPONS, they're SUPPOSED to be dangerous! :roll:
 
Goshin said:
:doh Have you been listening? There is no such thing. I could take a Ranger T in the arm or leg and keep shooting back. If one hit me through the upper chest and pierced my lung but missed my heart and major arteries, I could probably shoot back. If they got me through the heart or aorta or spine or brain or femoral artery, I'm probably done for no matter what kind of bullet we're talking about.

Load a .45 handgun with a Ranger T hollowpoint round. Then compare it to a bolt-action 30-06 deer rifle. I guarantee you the deer rifle will penetrate a standard police vest... the RangerT might or might not, it isn't advertised as a vest-penetrating round. The deer rifle bullet will likely do more damage through yaw and hydrostatic shock, and the rifle bullet is MORE likely to result in instant or rapid incapacitation through affecting blood pressure.

If you're so worried about all this, you should start with banning all rifle ammo. That's not going to endear you to millions of hunters and sportsmen. Then you'd better ban shotguns, because they're pretty devastating.


So it makes a bigger hole than most handgun bullets. As long as the hole is in the OTHER guy, I'm fine with that. The key to making sure it is the OTHER GUY that gets holes in him has nothing to do with ammo; it has to do with awareness, readiness, judgement, tactics, and skill with arms.


Like I said in the the other thread... we're talking about WEAPONS, they're SUPPOSED to be dangerous! :roll:
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I guess you are right. :(:usflag2: (Insert bow smiley here)
 
MaggieD said:
It shouldn't. And I don't think it is. I believe hollow points and armor piercing rounds are illegal in many, if not all, states.
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I hate to say it but why pipe up when one is clueless

Hollowpoint ammo is actually more humane for stopping a criminal

and "armor piercing" is a worthless term because a vest designed to stop only handgun ammo is easily defeated by big fame rifle cartridges. Liberals have tried to ban anything that will go through a normal Light Weight police officer's vest even though cops being shot with heavy game rifles is a very rare occurence
 
Jryan said:
Wouldn't you want to give all advantages to the cops though?



I knew that, I find it funny when someone thinks that. Did they miss the day in class where they taught Neuton's laws of physics?
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have you ever even fired a weapon?
 
Jryan said:
This is a one shot one kill bullet. This would give no chance for officers to respond.
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God the idiocy in each posts surpasses the idiocy in the one before it.
 
Jryan said:
If you read further on, I admitted to being wrong...
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its just amazing people start polls on issues they have ZERO-and I repeat ZERO understanding of
 
TurtleDude said:
its just amazing people start polls on issues they have ZERO-and I repeat ZERO understanding of
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I have an opinion on it and that is what matters turtle. If I hadn't of started this poll, would my opinion of changed? No...
 
Jryan said:
I have an opinion on it and that is what matters turtle. If I hadn't of started this poll, would my opinion of changed? No...
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I hate to sound mean but when you are so clueless about a topic your opinion has zero value
 
Jryan said:
Should all ammunition be legal?
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Yes. What ever law enforcement and military can get their hands on so should civilians.
 
Tracers are way to dangerous and would cause more fire than we already have.

Armor Piercing Rounds will penetrate police and and military flack vests and there is no need for anyone no in the military or police to own them.

Teflon is another type of round that is not needed for the same reasons as Armor Piercing Rounds.

I hit what I aim at so I don't need more than what I have
 
Councilman said:
Tracers are way to dangerous and would cause more fire than we already have.

Armor Piercing Rounds will penetrate police and and military flack vests and there is no need for anyone no in the military or police to own them.

Teflon is another type of round that is not needed for the same reasons as Armor Piercing Rounds.

I hit what I aim at so I don't need more than what I have
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I'm guessing you didn't read the thread first.
 
Councilman said:
Tracers are way to dangerous and would cause more fire than we already have.

Armor Piercing Rounds will penetrate police and and military flack vests and there is no need for anyone no in the military or police to own them.

Teflon is another type of round that is not needed for the same reasons as Armor Piercing Rounds.

I hit what I aim at so I don't need more than what I have
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so if cops wear vests designed (mainly for comfort and probabilities) to protect them against commonly encountered 9mm level handguns you want to ban deer rifles since they blow right through those vests.

and many military surplus rifle rounds are AP including the commonly available SS109 5.56mm rounds and the soviet 53 grain 5.45X39 AK 74 rounds?
 
I can just imagine some dirtbag who manages to make a nuclear weapon and then finds a slick lawyer tho successfully argues that it's a form of ammunition. I therefore voted no.
 
TurtleDude said:
God the idiocy in each posts surpasses the idiocy in the one before it.
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Go easy on him TD, he's a youngster. He threw some ideas out there, they got shot down, and he was man enough to admit when he was wrong... that puts him head and shoulders above half of DP in class right there, and he gave us a world-class opportunity to teach a lotta folks how ammo really works.

Gotta have an opponent to have a debate. :)
 
TurtleDude said:
so if cops wear vests designed (mainly for comfort and probabilities) to protect them against commonly encountered 9mm level handguns you want to ban deer rifles since they blow right through those vests.

and many military surplus rifle rounds are AP including the commonly available SS109 5.56mm rounds and the soviet 53 grain 5.45X39 AK 74 rounds?
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Okay, so, I don't think they should be banned. SMG's should stay banned, as it has been pointed out before, Rifles (Deer hunting) can't be concealed, SMG's can. I think that is the main difference, you don't buy an SMG to hunt, you buy an SMG for an assault mission. You don't buy an SMG for defense, there are better weapons for that I think.
 
As long as explosive shells aren't included under ammunition, then yes. As has been said, there's really not all that much difference. A regular bullet can kill you just as dead as a hollow point.
 
Jryan said:
Okay, so, I don't think they should be banned. SMG's should stay banned, as it has been pointed out before, Rifles (Deer hunting) can't be concealed, SMG's can. I think that is the main difference, you don't buy an SMG to hunt, you buy an SMG for an assault mission. You don't buy an SMG for defense, there are better weapons for that I think.
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SMG's are commonly used by CIVILIAN police officers. Thus other civilians need to be able to own them. Cops cannot use weapons for any reason other than defensive purposes. we don't have free fire zones in urban America
 
atrasicarius said:
As long as explosive shells aren't included under ammunition, then yes. As has been said, there's really not all that much difference. A regular bullet can kill you just as dead as a hollow point.
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often more quickly. Hollow points merely STOP better. they aren't more lethal. sometimes less because stuff like the old 55 grain 556 NATO shot out of the old 1X12 twist barrels or the current AK 74 53 grain WASP rounds bounce around inside humans or keyhole dramatically when striking flesh since they destabilize
 
Jryan said:
Okay, so, I don't think they should be banned. SMG's should stay banned, as it has been pointed out before, Rifles (Deer hunting) can't be concealed, SMG's can. I think that is the main difference, you don't buy an SMG to hunt, you buy an SMG for an assault mission. You don't buy an SMG for defense, there are better weapons for that I think.
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Currently, pre-1986 SMG's are under Class III licensure which is pretty restrictive. More recent SMGs you can't buy as a civilian, except for the semiauto versions which I don't see much point in.

I don't have much use for an SMG anyway. I'd rather have a semiauto shotgun.

They are fun to play with though, got the gosh-wow-cool factor going on. SWAT bud let me play with an MP5 loaded with tracers one time, makes a nice show after dark at a range. :)
 
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