• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Death Penalty: Right or Wrong?

Death Penalty: Yea or Nay?

  • Total voters
    34
J-Objective said:
maybe it doesnt in fantasy land but in reality it does. LMAO
Click to expand...
it actually doesn't in reality.

Your argument is that because a living person could commit a crime and a dead person can't, then the death penalty increases the safety of society. However, your argument doesn't take into account the incentives a person with a life sentence has to NOT commit a crime - incentives that a person sentenced to death does not have. You have provided no statistics and no study to say that life sentences lead to increased crime.

But I have a feeling that you are unable to see this error, so I'll just end my post with the response you always give to posts that you do not understand: LMAO.
 
What I think you're missing playdrive is that with the DEAD criminal there is a GUARANTEE that there will be no more crimes committed. Additionally, there is no added cost to the tax payers for housing that corpse. The live prisoner requires funds to be spent to incarcerate him/her and does provide the potential for future criminal activity.
 
theplaydrive said:
it actually doesn't in reality.

Your argument is that because a living person could commit a crime and a dead person can't, then the death penalty increases the safety of society. However, your argument doesn't take into account the incentives a person with a life sentence has to NOT commit a crime - incentives that a person sentenced to death does not have. You have provided no statistics and no study to say that life sentences lead to increased crime.

But I have a feeling that you are unable to see this error, so I'll just end my post with the response you always give to posts that you do not understand: LMAO.
Click to expand...

WOW can you smell the desperation. You have nothing else so you end with a failed attempt at an insult LOL. Very telling and predictable.

those incentives are meaningless since they do not stop people from committing crimes and death would, no need to consider them since the fact remains people with life in prison still commit crimes LMAO :Shrug:

Also please stop trying to side track my point I wont let you, my only argument is that your statement is wrong and that isnt my opinion its a fact already proven. So there no error at all because theres nothing you posted above that changes the fact :D
 
J-Objective said:
those incentives are meaningless since they do not stop people from committing crimes and death would,
Click to expand...
How do you know the incentives don't stop people from committing crimes whereas a prisoner who knows he's going to die will commit crimes before he dies since he has nothing to lose?

people with life in prison still commit crimes
Click to expand...
That's an absolute. So you're saying all people with life in prison still commit crimes. Prove it. In fact, just prove the majority do.

Also, if you can prove that the # of crimes committed by those with life sentences is greater than the number of crimes committed by those on death row, then you will have proved your point. If you can't do that, all you have is an opinion.
 
Honestly I could care less what crimes a person has committed. Its 2011, the death penalty is nothing more than a barbaric way to deal with crime. As a nation we are no better than the criminal if we willingly allow our tax dollars to go toward the killing of another human being. No matter how "civilized" we think we are. It's the 21st century its time we started acting like it. :peace
 
Last edited:
theplaydrive said:
1.)How do you know the incentives don't stop people from committing crimes whereas a prisoner who knows he's going to die will commit crimes before he dies since he has nothing to lose?


2.)That's an absolute. So you're saying all people with life in prison still commit crimes. Prove it. In fact, just prove the majority do.

Also, if you can prove that the # of crimes committed by those with life sentences is greater than the number of crimes committed by those on death row, then you will have proved your point. If you can't do that, all you have is an opinion.
Click to expand...

1.) because its a fact that people still commit crimes and nobody ever said that a person who is going to die wont commit any crimes, he very well could but after he is dead it will be impossible. again no impact to the facts or your wrong statement.

2.) nope sorry never said all or even the majority do I just said people, but if you would like me to clarify because you feel it was on clear ill say SOME people LMAO nice try with the dishonesty. only 1% of people is needed and your statement is again false LOL

3.) I dont need to do that, dead people cant commit crimes thats all the proof that is needed, again this has nothing to do with my opinion no matter how bad you want it too LMAO my opinion is meaningless because the fact is dead cant and living can :shrug:
 
J-Objective said:
1.) because its a fact that people still commit crimes and nobody ever said that a person who is going to die wont commit any crimes, he very well could but after he is dead it will be impossible. again no impact to the facts or your wrong statement.
Click to expand...

You either really don't understand what I'm saying or you're being incredibly dishonest. So I'll repeat it one last time in a clearer way.

The safety of the public (including those in prison) is NOT improved by the death penalty if those on death row commit more crimes before they are executed than those with life sentences commit for the entire time that they are in prison.
 
So, if you think it is good that murderer is dead, then you say that when a murderer dies. How do you find someone dieing a good thing?
 
theplaydrive said:
You either really don't understand what I'm saying or you're being incredibly dishonest. So I'll repeat it one last time in a clearer way.

The safety of the public (including those in prison) is NOT improved by the death penalty if those on death row commit more crimes before they are executed than those with life sentences commit for the entire time that they are in prison.
Click to expand...

nope its just you having a bias shallow view. No dishonesty at all thats ll been on your end.

1.)your original statement is wrong thats just a plain fact.
2.) are you now trying to say that IF we lived in a fantasy world where people that knew they were going to die committed on avg 5 crimes while in prison

and

that people that just knew they were going to spend their life in prison only committed 2 crimes for the rest of their lives that keeping them would make us safer?

well THAT might be true if it was reality??? LOL

tell me again what this has to do with your false statement??? :D
 
J-Objective said:
No dishonesty at all thats ll been on your end.
Click to expand...
So then you really just don't understand. Oh well, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'll say it again: The safety of the public (including those in prison) is NOT improved by the death penalty if those on death row commit more crimes before they are executed than those with life sentences commit for the entire time that they are in prison. The fact is, the incentives for an LS inmate to not commit crimes are much greater than the incentives for a DP inmate to not do so. Your unwillingness to acknowledge those incentives suggests that you reject any reality that contradicts your own worldview.

What you have is a hypothesis - a very logical hypothesis that many people agree with. However, at the end of the day it's still just a hypothesis and many well liked logical hypotheses have been proven wrong in the past. That you are unwilling to substantiate that hypothesis with evidence illustrates your lack of interest in honest debate. And it's funny because if you would provide evidence, I'd accept it.
 
theplaydrive said:
So then you really just don't understand. Oh well, I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I'll say it again: The safety of the public (including those in prison) is NOT improved by the death penalty if those on death row commit more crimes before they are executed than those with life sentences commit for the entire time that they are in prison. The fact is, the incentives for an LS inmate to not commit crimes are much greater than the incentives for a DP inmate to not do so. Your unwillingness to acknowledge those incentives suggests that you reject any reality that contradicts your own worldview.

What you have is a hypothesis - a very logical hypothesis that many people agree with. However, at the end of the day it's still just a hypothesis and many well liked logical hypotheses have been proven wrong in the past. That you are unwilling to substantiate that hypothesis with evidence illustrates your lack of interest in honest debate. And it's funny because if you would provide evidence, I'd accept it.
Click to expand...

why do you lie? and just make stuff up and partially post what I said? I addressed your FANTASY claim but it holds no merit on my point that your statment is wrong

do you think people are dumb enough to fall for it?

I understand it PERFECTLY, the problem is that its not reality. Its merely your opinion and a false one.

and no matter how much you try to spin things your wrong statement has already been proven wrong :shrug:

you made a statement that was false because it was an absolute, it happens, my suggestion would be to man up and admit you misspoke instead of trying to deny it or spin it or now come up with other possible , qualifiers and back pedals that you didnt originally say?

If you could just be honest and admit your statement was wrong youd have credibility. :shrug:

Id talk about ANY POSSIBLE scenarios that you'd like if youd just man up and admit you misspoke in your original false statement. Until you do so IM just going to stay on topic and keep repeat the only point I made, which is your statement is false. :D
 
J-Objective said:
If you could just be honest and admit your statement was wrong youd have credibility.
Click to expand...
I've already said that you're interpretation of my comment was wrong and that I don't agree with the absolute. Ikrai's interpretation was correct and I agree with that, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. My point thus far has been that all you've offered is opinion and you're pretending it's fact - which is true. You've offered a hypothesis and have refused to support it with evidence.

In any case, I'm bored of repeating myself because it's clear that no matter how simply I put my points, you don't understand them - and you really don't.
 
For it.

Because getting rid of murderers should by one of our highest priorities...

... in doing so we are affirming that we hold life to be the highest value in our society.
 
J-Objective said:
If you could just be honest and admit your statement was wrong youd have credibility. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Dude, his credibilty has long been established as being very good.
 
theplaydrive said:
I've already said that you're interpretation of my comment was wrong and that I don't agree with the absolute. Ikrai's interpretation was correct and I agree with that, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. My point thus far has been that all you've offered is opinion and you're pretending it's fact - which is true. You've offered a hypothesis and have refused to support it with evidence.

In any case, I'm bored of repeating myself because it's clear that no matter how simply I put my points, you don't understand them - and you really don't.
Click to expand...

It wasnt my "interpretation" LMAO
it was EXACTLY what you said, I havent given you my opinion I gave you facts HUGE difference

what happen is what you WANTED to say and MEANT to say wasnt what you actually said :)

the fact remains is what you actually said was false, twist how you like doesnt matter to me LMAO

accept it or dont, doesnt change the facts :shrug:
 
Bodhisattva said:
Dude, his credibilty has long been established as being very good.
Click to expand...

not on this topic, on this topic it was shot posts ago when he choose to play games instead of admit the truth :shrug:

Ive misspoke before, i just admit it instead of playing games
 
J-Objective said:
not on this topic, on this topic it was shot posts ago when he choose to play games instead of admit the truth :shrug:

Ive misspoke before, i just admit it instead of playing games
Click to expand...
I'm not going to "admit" that I'm wrong because two people who read my initial comment interpreted it differently. You interpreted it one way and Ikari interpreted it another way - I agree with Ikari's interpretation. I don't agree with yours. I made that clear a long time ago so what on earth you thin I need to "admit" is beyond me.

I believe that your interpretation of my comment - the absolute - is an unsubstantiated opinion that I neither agree nor disagree with as I didn't give that opinion. However, I disagree with your assertion that the statements you've made thus far are facts - since they aren't.
 
J-Objective said:
not on this topic, on this topic it was shot posts ago when he choose to play games instead of admit the truth :shrug:

Ive misspoke before, i just admit it instead of playing games
Click to expand...

Fair enough... I have not read the thread, but knowing how he acts (as well as I can) I would assume that if he is "playing a game" it is unintended. In all fairness to how you are interpreting his statements, it seems pretty clear that he would know what he is talking about and man, you know you can be a little pig headed at times... right. ;)
 
Last edited:
theplaydrive said:
I'm not going to "admit" that I'm wrong because two people who read my initial comment interpreted it differently. You interpreted it one way and Ikari interpreted it another way - I agree with Ikari's interpretation. I don't agree with yours. I made that clear a long time ago so what on earth you thin I need to "admit" is beyond me.

I believe that your interpretation of my comment - the absolute - is an unsubstantiated opinion that I neither agree nor disagree with as I didn't give that opinion. However, I disagree with your assertion that the statements you've made thus far are facts - since they aren't.
Click to expand...

you dont have to, you will still be wrong.

the problem is that "i" didnt interpret it in any other way accept for what it said. Mine isnt an interpretation, I took the words and sentence for their EXACT meaning LMAO


Ikari used QUALIFIERS and EXTRA words to tell me what he THINKS you MIGHT mean or COULD mean.

Thats is an interpretation HUGE difference.

I didnt guess what you could POSSIBLY mean I took your sentence for its value and direct meaning.

SO your acceptance is neither needed nor does it matter :shrug:

also I have proved EVERYTHING I said, what i havent proved is things you WANT me to have claimed or tried to GET me to claim, those I didnt prove nor did I care about them because they had no bearing on your wrong statement.

The fact is your statement at its face value, using the actually words in your sentence, is wrong. If you MEANT something else all you had to do is say so, you choose not to, and you choose to instead play games :shrug:

no biggie to me, in fact you are still playing game but again it has no impact on your wrong statement. Next time say what you mean or when questioned/called out on it, admit the mistake and that you should have worded it better ;)
 
Bodhisattva said:
Fair enough... I have not read the thread, but knowing how he acts (as well as I can) I would assume that if he is "playing a game" it is unintended. In all fairness to how you are interpreting his statements, it seems pretty clear that he would know what he is talking about and man, you know you can be a little pig headed at times... right. ;)
Click to expand...


LOL yes I can
but only when faced when somebody who desperately is trying to push their opinion as fact or somebody that refuses to admit a wrong or that they have misspoken.

These are some of my favorite situations because they are so funny to watch people talk circles and try to deflect. Actually some here are VERY VERY good at it and ive seen a person be caught dead to rights misspeaking or being wrong but because they are so good a mis/redirecting the people that originally called them out get caught in the mix and dont even know what they were originally debating LOL

I dont have much experience with TPD but is is no dummy by any stretch of the imagination but I do believe he was trying to dazzle me with bull**** and misdirect instead of just saying "yeah my bad I should have worded that different instead of speaking in an absolute" :shrug:
 
J-Objective said:
the problem is that "i" didnt interpret it in any other way accept for what it said. Mine isnt an interpretation, I took the words and sentence for their EXACT meaning LMAO
Click to expand...

This is my original comment:
theplaydrive said:
The death penalty doesn't increase the safety of the public anymore than a life sentence w/p parole.
Click to expand...

This is a comment you made later:
J-Objective said:
the fact remains people with life in prison still commit crimes
Click to expand...

Both sentences are written as absolutes. However, most people reading them wouldn't flip out and harp on the way they were written. They would understand that the person likely doesn't mean it in an absolute sense - but instead, in a statistically relevant sense. However, you've chosen to not give me the benefit of the doubt and yet excuse your use of an absolute. This conversation is a joke.

You interpreted my comment one way and Ikari interpreted it another. I agree with Ikari's interpretation and not yours. It's pretty simple.
 
J-Objective said:
I do believe he was trying to dazzle me with bull**** and misdirect instead of just saying "yeah my bad I should have worded that different instead of speaking in an absolute" :shrug:
Click to expand...
I don't "dazzle".
 
theplaydrive said:
The death penalty doesn't increase the safety of the public anymore than a life sentence w/p parole.
Click to expand...

I interprete this as meaning that the safety of public is the same whether or not the person is killed or incarcerated and that you don't need to kill the person to make the public safe.
 
theplaydrive said:
This is my original comment:


This is a comment you made later:


Both sentences are written as absolutes. However, most people reading them wouldn't flip out and harp on the way they were written. They would understand that the person likely doesn't mean it in an absolute sense - but instead, in a statistically relevant sense. However, you've chosen to not give me the benefit of the doubt and yet excuse your use of an absolute. This conversation is a joke.

You interpreted my comment one way and Ikari interpreted it another. I agree with Ikari's interpretation and not yours. It's pretty simple.
Click to expand...

oh good lord more dishonesty
exactly only YOURS is written in absolute because people doesnt have to MEAN ALL lmao
and what was the INSTANT difference? I told you if you misunderstood mine I would gladly add some to people I didnt try to talk for pages and pages about it LOL

I dindt CHOOSE anything nor did I flip out LMAO

and you are still making stuff up, I took your words to mean what they said, Ikari CHOSE to GUESS what you MIGHT mean. and also Zyphlin who I think is smart and objective had almost and identical post I had post 65 and some other poster also commented and said that you werent getting what your statement actually says, so save me with the "most people" dramatics lol

I would have given you the benefit of the doubt if you just admitted it but here you are pages later trying to act like you didnt misspeak :shrug:

but we do agree this conversation is a joke because you are in denial and also its pretty simple that you misspoke :shurg:
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom