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Opinions about the TSA and practices

Pick as many as apply

  • The TSA can do whateverthey want - including strip searches and body cavaty searches

    Votes: 1 4.2%

  • The TSA should have limits on how invasive a search can be

    Votes: 14 58.3%

  • The TSA is ineffective and should not exist at all

    Votes: 7 29.2%

  • The TSA is necessary, but currently ineffective

    Votes: 7 29.2%

  • The TSA is necessary and effective

    Votes: 5 20.8%

  • The TSA should not exist (for reason(s) other than being ineffective)

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • The enhanced patdowns are excessive and need to be dropped.

    Votes: 11 45.8%

  • The enhanced patdowns are excessive and need to be modified.

    Votes: 6 25.0%

  • The enhanced patdowns are necessary to assure safety.

    Votes: 2 8.3%

  • Less invasive and equally thorough methods are available.

    Votes: 9 37.5%
  • Total voters
    24
Frolicking Dinosaurs

Frolicking Dinosaurs

200M yrs of experience
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I get patted down every single time I board a plane or ship thanks to metal in my hip and leg. I've had respectful pat downs and several that had me wanting to file sexual assault charges.
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
I get patted down every single time I board a plane or ship thanks to metal in my hip and leg. I've had respectful pat downs and several that had me wanting to file sexual assault charges.
Click to expand...

I have been patted down before, and afterwards I went on with my day without thinking twice about what had happened. It is unfortunate that you have to deal with the pat downs every time you fly, and I feel better procedures can be implemented in your case and especially when dealing with children. But for me personally I have no objections to the pat downs.
 
Invasive pat downs and virtual strip searches should be illegal without a warrant. Last I checked "only applies only on the inside of your home" was not in the fourth amendment.If people wish for the government to strip search your and invasive pat downs without a warrant then there is an amendment process for changing the the constitution.
 
I had a pat down in Hawaii last fall that involved being patted from ankle to ankle; having my bra strap pulled out, the agent reaching up in my cleavage and feeling around; and bending over to have my butt-crack checked. I think the agents were upset because I declined to be X-rayed. I declined because in previous airports I had to be patted down after the x-ray because it still shows a lot of metal in the area that could conceivably be a weapon.

What really upsets me is that when I set the alarms off in courthouses and federal buildings, they use a hand-held wand to identify the area causing the alarm and just pat that area down. That just seems so much saner than the TSA method.
 
not sure I can answer the poll but ill answer your question.

Ill give you some opinions and facts.

Opinions:
"In general" I dont like the TSA, the need for them and their policies
I think its sad we need the TSA
If a person wants debate their policies vs effectiveness have at it.
I dont like the poorly trained personnel

Facts:
no laws are broken by TSA Policies, they do NOT violate the constitution.


Conclusion:
While Im not a fan, I fly frequently and am not phased by the TSA, they dont bother me and Id rather have them than not. Before, during and after my searches I think about them very little beyond conversations that I come across.
 
jamesrage said:
Invasive pat downs and virtual strip searches should be illegal without a warrant. Last I checked "only applies only on the inside of your home" was not in the fourth amendment.If people wish for the government to strip search your and invasive pat downs without a warrant then there is an amendment process for changing the the constitution.
Click to expand...

So by your analysis of the constitution, the TSA should need a warrant to search or scan your carry-on as well? Or am I reading your comment wrong?

A police office shouldn't need a warrant to check you for weapons or contraband. Nor should a TSA officer who is ensuring safety on flights. If you don't like the pat downs, don't travel. Or drive to your destination. Or just quit looking so suspicious when you fly :roll:
 
jamesrage said:
Invasive pat downs and virtual strip searches should be illegal without a warrant. Last I checked "only applies only on the inside of your home" was not in the fourth amendment.If people wish for the government to strip search your and invasive pat downs without a warrant then there is an amendment process for changing the the constitution.
Click to expand...

I completely agree.

I'll go a bit further. These enhanced pat-downs and virtual strip searches ARE illegal.

The Fourth Amendment is clear enough on setting limits on the authority of government to conduct any invasive searches of any kind. The searches being conducted by the TSA do not come anywhere even close to satisfying the Fourth Amendment, therefore, there is no authority to conduct these searches.

Lacking such authority, various laws concerning assault apply. Touching someone without his consent is assault. Touching someone's intimate areas without consent is sexual assault. This conduct is illegal.

I believe that the Fourth Nuremberg Principle should certainly apply here. “I was just following orders” should not be accepted as an excuse.

TSA agents who conduct invasive strip searches and pat-downs, without proper probable cause, ought to be arrested and tried on appropriate charges of assault, sexual molestation, and violation of the victims' civil rights.

As an American, I find it deeply shameful that my countrymen have become so complacent and cowardly that such outrageous conduct by agents of our government toward our people is tolerated. If the same spirit that prevailed at the time this nation was founded still prevailed today, this would not have gone nearly so far before it would have become routine for TSA perverts to be tarred and feathered, or even beaten to death by angry mobs.

The great men who founded this country would not have even thought of tolerating this kind of crap from their government. Shame on us for tolerating it.
 
Jucon said:
So by your analysis of the constitution, the TSA should need a warrant to search or scan your carry-on as well? Or am I reading your comment wrong?
Click to expand...

Carry-ons are personal effects and therefore one of those things the forth amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizure without a warrant.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

A police office shouldn't need a warrant to check you for weapons or contraband.
Click to expand...

So a police office should be able to walk up to you on the street and give you an invasive patdown and strip search of you and your property?

If you want police to be able to do that then you need to petition the government to go through the amendment process to flush the 4th amendment down the drain.

Nor should a TSA officer who is ensuring safety on flights. If you don't like the pat downs, don't travel. Or drive to your destination. Or just quit looking so suspicious when you fly :roll:
Click to expand...

You realize that more terrorist attacks have happened on trains,cars and buses than on airplanes.So buy your logic if you do not like to be virtually stripped searched then you should not step foot outside your home.
 
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SE102 said:
How do we deter underwear bombers?
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ANd if terrorists started sticking explosives up their ass then we should all cavity searches without warrants at airports?
 
Bob Blaylock said:
I completely agree.

I'll go a bit further. These enhanced pat-downs and virtual strip searches ARE illegal.

The Fourth Amendment is clear enough on setting limits on the authority of government to conduct any invasive searches of any kind. The searches being conducted by the TSA do not come anywhere even close to satisfying the Fourth Amendment, therefore, there is no authority to conduct these searches.
Click to expand...

You are correct. Laws that violate the constitution are illegal period.

I believe that the Fourth Nuremberg Principle should certainly apply here. “I was just following orders” should not be accepted as an excuse.

TSA agents who conduct invasive strip searches and pat-downs, without proper probable cause, ought to be arrested and tried on appropriate charges of assault, sexual molestation, and violation of the victims' civil rights.
Click to expand...

I agree with that. No one forced them to do those things. thats why I find the line "but they are just doing their job" to be a load of crap. They were not conscripted, they are not slaves. they are not some guy in their 50s or 60s who was doing the same job for 40 years about ready to retire and collect a pension.

As an American, I find it deeply shameful that my countrymen have become so complacent and cowardly that such outrageous conduct by agents of our government toward our people is tolerated. If the same spirit that prevailed at the time this nation was founded still prevailed today, this would not have gone nearly so far before it would have become routine for TSA perverts to be tarred and feathered, or even beaten to death by angry mobs.
Click to expand...

Baby steps are how people become complacent.

The great men who founded this country would not have even thought of tolerating this kind of crap from their government. Shame on us for tolerating it.
Click to expand...
The great men who founded our country knew that hte government shouldn't be trusted.
 
I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on this. Flying is a PRIVILEGE, not a Right. If you want to fly, you get to play by the FAA and TSA's rules. If you don't want to play by those rules, don't fly. You are electing to engage in a privileged act (flying); not walking around in public; so I would suggest that the 4th Amendement really doesn't apply here. Just as I can REQUIRE you to be searched to enter my place of residence or other private property, the TSA should be able to search you (by whatever means are necessary) before allowing you onto their property (the airlines); so long as they tell you what you will be subjected to before you make the decision to fly.

Honestly, I don't think the TSA does anywhere near enough to secure the airways. I've laid out my plan of strip searches, straitjackets, hoods, and 5-point restraints in other threads before. Either that or start letting me carry my own personal protection devices onto planes again.
 
no one subjects you to those searches
you subject yourself
you have chosen to fly thru a public airport and understand that to do so requires such scrutiny
want to avoid the search, don't use the public airport

that said, the OP's point is taken; no doubt there are those TSA pervs who abuse their authority for personal satisfaction. there should be a system established such that objections to the manner of the pat down could be posted immediately after the search where the TSA official could be photographically recognized. in short order, the dept of homeland security would be able to ferret out those who abuse their TSA authority
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
I get patted down every single time I board a plane or ship thanks to metal in my hip and leg. I've had respectful pat downs and several that had me wanting to file sexual assault charges.
Click to expand...

Bob Blaylock said:
I'll go a bit further. These enhanced pat-downs and virtual strip searches ARE illegal.

The Fourth Amendment is clear enough on setting limits on the authority of government to conduct any invasive searches of any kind. The searches being conducted by the TSA do not come anywhere even close to satisfying the Fourth Amendment, therefore, there is no authority to conduct these searches.

Lacking such authority, various laws concerning assault apply. Touching someone without his consent is assault. Touching someone's intimate areas without consent is sexual assault. This conduct is illegal.
Click to expand...

Res ipsa loquitur. The simple fact that you bought a plane ticket and are willing to travel on a public plane disavows any violation. The Fourth Amendment prevents cops and what-not from breaking into your house and looking for/taking anything you do not want them to look for or take. Now if a cop asks to come inside your home and you say yes, at which point he finds an unregistered handgun or a pound of weed, you can take it to court, but it will be thrown out immediately. You can refuse the patdown and not be "sexually violated" or "assaulted" if you so choose. The result is you probably being barred from the plane. The choice still exists, and if you want to get on the plane, you give assumed, if not expressed, consent to reasonable measures. Also, the word "reasonable" fluctuates.

My biggest complaint is the time. If the TSA dude (hopefully chick) wants to pat me, look, grab my junk - I couldn't give a damn. Hurry up and get your jolly on, then let me get on my plane.
 
jamesrage said:
Carry-ons are personal effects and therefore one of those things the forth amendment protects against unreasonable searches and seizure without a warrant.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.



So a police office should be able to walk up to you on the street and give you an invasive patdown and strip search of you and your property?

If you want police to be able to do that then you need to petition the government to go through the amendment process to flush the 4th amendment down the drain.



You realize that more terrorist attacks have happened on trains,cars and buses than on airplanes.So buy your logic if you do not like to be virtually stripped searched then you should not step foot outside your home.
Click to expand...

You can claim you have the 4th amendment on your side but I will always object to banning the TSA from searching carry ons or any other form of luggage.

I'm curious what you feel would be an otherwise effective way of detecting a bomb or guns in someone's bag.



And a police officer walking up to you on the street to give you a pat down without cause would be inappropriate. However a Police officer checking everyone at the front door to a 9/11 memorial service is not inappropriate.

No one is forcing you to fly. If you don't like the pat downs, don't fly. I on the other hand will go on living my life
 
Tigger said:
I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on this. Flying is a PRIVILEGE, not a Right.
Click to expand...


So is driving a car,riding a bus,train or cab and even walking.


If you want to fly, you get to play by the FAA and TSA's rules.
If you don't want to play by those rules, don't fly. You are electing to engage in a privileged act (flying); not walking around in public;
Click to expand...

The same thing can apply to driving, walking and riding, If you want to drive,ride or walk then you must abide by the government's rules.
so I would suggest that the 4th Amendement really doesn't apply here.
Click to expand...

The 4th amendment does apply.There are no "Only applies inside your home and property" anywhere on the 4th amendment.


Just as I can REQUIRE you to be searched to enter my place of residence or other private property, the TSA should be able to search you (by whatever means are necessary) before allowing you onto their property (the airlines); so long as they tell you what you will be subjected to before you make the decision to fly.
Click to expand...

TSA is not a private entity it is government entity. The constitution exist to protect against the government not private property owners.
Honestly, I don't think the TSA does anywhere near enough to secure the airways. I've laid out my plan of strip searches, straitjackets, hoods, and 5-point restraints in other threads before. Either that or start letting me carry my own personal protection devices onto planes again.
Click to expand...

Would you tolerate the police doing this to people driving cars, riding cabs,trains and buses and people walking down the street?
 
Airlines are privately-owned businesses. If they wish to implement pat-downs as part of their security screening, its their right.

Don't like it? Find an airline that doesn't do it.

People talk like they have a Constitutional right to fly a plane. Well, ya don't.

Ride a train if pat-downs and body scans bother you.
 
jamesrage said:
So is driving a car,riding a bus,train or cab and even walking.




The same thing can apply to driving, walking and riding, If you want to drive,ride or walk then you must abide by the government's rules.


The 4th amendment does apply.There are no "Only applies inside your home and property" anywhere on the 4th amendment.




TSA is not a private entity it is government entity. The constitution exist to protect against the government not private property owners.


Would you tolerate the police doing this to people driving cars, riding cabs,trains and buses and people walking down the street?
Click to expand...

If you really think that we're on a slippery slope to where we have to be patted down in order to drive our cars, I have to question your sanity.
 
Jucon said:
You can claim you have the 4th amendment on your side but I will always object to banning the TSA from searching carry ons or any other form of luggage.

I'm curious what you feel would be an otherwise effective way of detecting a bomb or guns in someone's bag.
Click to expand...

Carry-ons are personal property IE effects. Therefore the 4th amendment applies to those.

And a police officer walking up to you on the street to give you a pat down without cause would be inappropriate. However a Police officer checking everyone at the front door to a 9/11 memorial service is not inappropriate.
Click to expand...

Is there an exemption in the 4th amendment that allows this? No there is not.

No one is forcing you to fly.
Click to expand...
No one is forcing you to drive your own vehicle, no one is forcing you to ride a bus, cab or train and no one is forcing you to walk.


If you don't like the pat downs, don't fly.
Click to expand...

And the same thing could be said about walking,driving or riding, If you do not like invasive pat downs and virtual strip searches then don't drive,don't walk and don't ride a cab,bus or train.
 
Thunder said:
Airlines are privately-owned businesses. If they wish to implement pat-downs as part of their security screening, its their right.

Don't like it? Find an airline that doesn't do it.

People talk like they have a Constitutional right to fly a plane. Well, ya don't.

Ride a train if pat-downs and body scans bother you.
Click to expand...

The TSA is a government agency, not a private one. The airlines can't say screw you TSA we will have our own security and they won't virtually strip search passengers and have invasive pat downs.
 
Last edited:
Jucon said:
If you really think that we're on a slippery slope to where we have to be patted down in order to drive our cars, I have to question your sanity.
Click to expand...

Driving just like riding or flying in a plane is a PRIVILEGE, not a Right. So how can you call it s slippery slope.

Terrorist attacks all over the world happen more with cars,buses and trains than they do airplanes. So if you support 4th amendment violations just because you fly on a plane then you open the for these things as well.
 
Frolicking Dinosaurs said:
I get patted down every single time I board a plane or ship thanks to metal in my hip and leg. I've had respectful pat downs and several that had me wanting to file sexual assault charges.
Click to expand...

TSA should be abolished. It doesn't really do anything useful anymore other than get in our way and make us show up 3 hours before our departure time.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
I completely agree.

I'll go a bit further. These enhanced pat-downs and virtual strip searches ARE illegal.

The Fourth Amendment is clear enough on setting limits on the authority of government to conduct any invasive searches of any kind. The searches being conducted by the TSA do not come anywhere even close to satisfying the Fourth Amendment, therefore, there is no authority to conduct these searches.

Lacking such authority, various laws concerning assault apply. Touching someone without his consent is assault. Touching someone's intimate areas without consent is sexual assault. This conduct is illegal.

I believe that the Fourth Nuremberg Principle should certainly apply here. “I was just following orders” should not be accepted as an excuse.

TSA agents who conduct invasive strip searches and pat-downs, without proper probable cause, ought to be arrested and tried on appropriate charges of assault, sexual molestation, and violation of the victims' civil rights.

As an American, I find it deeply shameful that my countrymen have become so complacent and cowardly that such outrageous conduct by agents of our government toward our people is tolerated. If the same spirit that prevailed at the time this nation was founded still prevailed today, this would not have gone nearly so far before it would have become routine for TSA perverts to be tarred and feathered, or even beaten to death by angry mobs.

The great men who founded this country would not have even thought of tolerating this kind of crap from their government. Shame on us for tolerating it.
Click to expand...

I bet you would be mad if you missed your airplane cause they had to get a warrant from the local judge.
 
Ikari said:
TSA should be abolished. It doesn't really do anything useful anymore other than get in our way and make us show up 3 hours before our departure time.
Click to expand...

That's my major complaint. I'd be fine if I could show up 15 minutes before, take off my shoes, open my bags, let them grab my junk, and board.

Might even get a few phone numbers out of the deal.
 
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