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How long will you "blame Bush"?

How long will you blame Bush

  • Less than one more year

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Until this term is over

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Forever.

    Votes: 23 71.9%

  • I'm done blaming Bush.

    Votes: 9 28.1%
  • Total voters
    32
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Bob Blaylock said:
Or negligence, which seems more appropriate in this case.

The 1993 attack on the World Trade Center is particularly damning—not that the Clinton administration was negligent in “allowing it to happen”, but that the Clinton administration was grotesquely negligent in ignoring the warning that it represented and in failing to act on that warning in such a manner as to prepare us for further attacks of that sort.

If not for Clinton's negligence and misfeasance, the 9/11 attacks would probably have been prevented.
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Really? Then how do you explain there wasn't another attack by al-qaeda inside our borders the rest of his terms?It's not like al-qaeda didn't try ... in 1998 Clinton received a PDB similar to the one Bush received, warning about potential hijackings. Unlike Bush, who did absolutely nothing to prevent a hijacking, Clinton had airport security raised as selected airports in the northeast and there was no attack.

Just imagine if Bush had taken the same preventative measure Clinton took, perhaps September 11th, 2001, would have just been another ordinary Tuesday.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Nope, that wasn't Clinton. Clinton was the one who tripled the FBI's budget for counter-terrorism. Bush was the one who came into office and denied the FBI a budget increase for counter-terrorism...
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not only that, but Clinton:

Foreign policy of the Bill Clinton administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-sent legislation to Congress to extend federal criminal jurisdiction making it easier to deport terrorists and act against terrorist fund-raising.

-amended that legislation to increase wiretap and electronic surveillance authority for the FBI, require explosives to be equipped with traceable taggants, and appropriate more funds to the FBI, CIA, and local police...after the OKC bombing.

-he issued Presidential Decision Directive 39 which stated that the United States "should deter, defeat and respond vigorously to all terrorist attacks on our territory and against our citizens." Furthermore, it called terrorism both a "matter of national security" and a crime.

-he significantly increased anti-terror funds to the CIA & FBI.

-he created the CIA's "Bin Laden unit", who's mission was to analyse intelligence about and plan missions against OBL.

-he created and appointed Richard Clark to head a new Counter-terrorism Security Group, who's mission was to prevent and defend against terrorist attacks.

-he tried to kill OBL in Afghanistan, but OBL was not there during the attacks.

-he declared the Taliban to be a state sponsor of terrorism.

-in 1999 he gave the CIA the authority to order the killing of OBL.

-he helped prevent the Millenium terror attacks.

-he drafted a plan at the end of his admistration, to defeat and destroy Al Qaeda.



....so much for this dishonest rumor of President Clinton not taking on terrorism.
 
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OscarB63 said:
talk about dishonest.

how many attacks were there during the Bush years? now compare to the number during Clinton.
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You talking about just inside the U.S. or globally?
 
OscarB63 said:
talk about dishonest.

how many attacks were there during the Bush years?...
Click to expand...

there was only one international terrorist attack against the US homeland, during Clinton's administration.

you can think his hard work to fight terror, for this success.
 
Thunder said:
not only that, but Clinton:

Foreign policy of the Bill Clinton administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-sent legislation to Congress to extend federal criminal jurisdiction making it easier to deport terrorists and act against terrorist fund-raising.

-amended that legislation to increase wiretap and electronic surveillance authority for the FBI, require explosives to be equipped with traceable taggants, and appropriate more funds to the FBI, CIA, and local police...after the OKC bombing.

-he issued Presidential Decision Directive 39 which stated that the United States "should deter, defeat and respond vigorously to all terrorist attacks on our territory and against our citizens." Furthermore, it called terrorism both a "matter of national security" and a crime.

-he significantly increased anti-terror funds to the CIA & FBI.

-he created the CIA's "Bin Laden unit", who's mission was to analyse intelligence about and plan missions against OBL.

-he created and appointed Richard Clark to head a new Counter-terrorism Security Group, who's mission was to prevent and defend against terrorist attacks.

-he tried to kill OBL in Afghanistan, but OBL was not there during the attacks.

-he declared the Taliban to be a state sponsor of terrorism.

-in 1999 he gave the CIA the authority to order the killing of OBL.

-he helped prevent the Millenium terror attacks.

-he drafted a plan at the end of his admistration, to defeat and destroy Al Qaeda.



....so much for this dishonest rumor of President Clinton not taking on terrorism.
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It's astounding that anyone even tries to defend Bush's record against terrorism prior to 9.11...


What the September 11 commission hearings revealed

Part two: Ignoring the warnings—the FBI and Justice Department

The recent public hearings of the 9/11 commission provided numerous examples of the inexplicable indifference, inaction or outright negligence of the Bush administration in response to warnings that a catastrophic terrorist attack was about to take place in the United States.

As the New York Times noted in its summary of the evidence: “The warnings during the summer were more dire and more specific than generally recognized. Descriptions of the threat were communicated repeatedly to the highest levels within the White House. In more than 40 briefings, Mr. Bush was told by George J. Tenet, the director of central intelligence, of threats involving Al Qaeda.”

These warnings were issued throughout the spring and summer of 2001, but even as late as September 6, 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld would send a letter to Senator Carl Levin telling him that he would urge Bush to veto an effort to transfer money in the Pentagon’s budget from missile defense to counterterrorism.

Four days later, on September 10, 2001, Attorney General John Ashcroft rejected a similar appeal from the FBI. Acting FBI Director Thomas Pickard had objected that the Justice Department’s proposed fiscal 2003 budget proposed no additional spending for counterterrorism over fiscal 2002, and asked Ashcroft to authorize an increase of $58 million. Pickard received the attorney general’s response on September 12, the day after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

This was part of a pattern of indifference to the threat of terrorism from the time Ashcroft took office. According to the draft report of the 9/11 commission staff, FBI counterterrorism chief Dale Watson testified that he “fell off my chair” when he learned in May 2001 that Ashcroft had not listed terrorism as one of his priorities in a memo to the department staff.​
 
This was part of a pattern of indifference to the threat of terrorism from the time Ashcroft took office. According to the draft report of the 9/11 commission staff, FBI counterterrorism chief Dale Watson testified that he “fell off my chair” when he learned in May 2001 that Ashcroft had not listed terrorism as one of his priorities in a memo to the department staff.


yep....The Chimp-in-Chief (President Shrub) truly dropped the ball, and 3,000 innocent people died because of it.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Nope, that wasn't Clinton. Clinton was the one who tripled the FBI's budget for counter-terrorism. Bush was the one who came into office and denied the FBI a budget increase for counter-terrorism.
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um, if Clinton's budget was satisfactory, how did not increasing it further cause 9-11? seems it keeps coming back to that, none of you can point to any specific negative changes that Bush made that caused 9-11. at worst, bush is guilty of not fixing the problems clinton left behind




Nope, that wasn't Clinton. The 9.11 Commission determined there was no evidence of that rumor being true and indeed, OBL had not committed any crimes against the U.S. by 1995 to even warrant extradition. Bush was the one who rejected a deal which would have led to OBL's arrest and extradition to a third-party country -- and that was after he was tied to the 9.11 attacks.

Smooth move again, huh?
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which is totally irrelevant to the cause of 9-11.

neither of which
 
Thunder said:
there was only one international terrorist attack against the US homeland, during Clinton's administration.

you can think his hard work to fight terror, for this success.
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why do you insist on so dishonestly limiting it to international attacks inside the US? could it be because of all the international attacks that occurred against US interests overseas and the multiple domestic terror attacks inside the US? :ssst: oopsie, failed again
 
Gipper said:
Pretty simple - for people who just like to say "I blame Bush" over and over, how much longer do we have to hear it?
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If he can be considered a key reason why Obama got elected, then I will blame him forever!
 
OscarB63 said:
um, if Clinton's budget was satisfactory, how did not increasing it further cause 9-11? seems it keeps coming back to that, none of you can point to any specific negative changes that Bush made that caused 9-11. at worst, bush is guilty of not fixing the problems clinton left behind
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Because it takes being vigilant beyond just the safety measures put in place. Why would a president not do everything in their power to protect the nation they lead? In 1998 when Clinton received a PDB warning him that Al-qaeda was planning an attack inside our borders, Clinton didn't just sit back and hope the precautions he put in place were enough -- he did everything he could to prevent an attack and on top of all the other measures taken to date, still had airport security raised to prevent a potential hijacking -- and unlike the results we witnessed in horror of Bush doing nothing to prevent an attack, there was no attack in 1998 after Clinton took action in response to a possible attack by Al-Qaeda.

Just think how 9.11 might have been different had Bush done that. We certainly know how doing absolutely nothing turned out.
 
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OscarB63 said:
why do you insist on so dishonestly limiting it to international attacks inside the US? could it be because of all the international attacks that occurred against US interests overseas and the multiple domestic terror attacks inside the US? :ssst: oopsie, failed again
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Ahh, so you are talking about attacks globally. Seems Bush failed there too.


Terrorist Attacks in the U.S. or Against Americans

2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)

2002
June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb explodes outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.

2003
1 May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.

2004
May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.

June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks. Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate, killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.

2005
Nov. 9, Amman, Jordan: suicide bombers hit 3 American hotels, Radisson, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn, in Amman, Jordan, killing 57. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility.

2006
Sept. 13, Damascus, Syria: an attack by four gunman on the American embassy is foiled.

2007
Jan. 12, Athens, Greece: the U.S. embassy is fired on by an anti-tank missile causing damage but no injuries.

Dec. 11, Algeria: more than 60 people are killed, including 11 United Nations staff members, when Al Qaeda terrorists detonate two car bombs near Algeria's Constitutional Council and the United Nations offices.

2008
May 26, Iraq: a suicide bomber on a motorcycle kills six U.S. soldiers and wounds 18 others in Tarmiya.

June 24, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills at least 20 people, including three U.S. Marines, at a meeting between sheiks and Americans in Karmah, a town west of Baghdad.

June 12, Afghanistan: four American servicemen are killed when a roadside bomb explodes near a U.S. military vehicle in Farah Province.

July 13, Afghanistan: nine U.S.soldiers and at least 15 NATO troops die when Taliban militants boldly attack an American base in Kunar Province, which borders Pakistan. It's the most deadly against U.S. troops in three years.

Aug. 18 and 19, Afghanistan: as many as 15 suicide bombers backed by about 30 militants attack a U.S. military base, Camp Salerno, in Bamiyan. Fighting between U.S. troops and members of the Taliban rages overnight. No U.S. troops are killed.

Sept. 16, Yemen: a car bomb and a rocket strike the U.S. embassy in Yemen as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack.

Nov. 26, India: in a series of attacks on several of Mumbai's landmarks and commercial hubs that are popular with Americans and other foreign tourists, including at least two five-star hotels, a hospital, a train station, and a cinema. About 300 people are wounded and nearly 190 people die, including at least 5 Americans.​
 
The fact of the matter is that the system was screwed up before Bush and Obama. However, Bush, Cheney and the gang was so horrible, that even my dad couldn't stand them. Eventually, we will have to take things back...
 
Thunder said:
9-11 changed everything, especially our security apparatus. Bush's failure led to seriously needed changes.
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It was Bush's leadership that led to the changes in question. Leadership that Clinton completely and utterly failed to exercise twelve years before, in the wake of the 1993 terrorist attack against the World Trade Center.

As I said, if not for Clinton's grotesque negligence and misfeasance, the 9/11 attacks would probably have been prevented.
 
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Thunder said:
why is that "dishonest"?
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because it ignores all the other terror attacks that happened under clinton. It's like praising the defense of a team that got beat 52 - 0 because they only allowed 1 field goal.
 
OscarB63 said:
because it ignores all the other terror attacks that happened under clinton. It's like praising the defense of a team that got beat 52 - 0 because they only allowed 1 field goal.
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forgive me for saying so, but I am more concerned with terrorist attacks upon the civilian population of the United States, than other places.

our foremost responsibility is to protect the homeland, which Clinton did a good job of doing.
 
Thunder said:
I have listed many of Clinton's ineffective efforts to fight terrorism, thereby making your comment honest & accurate.
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edited for accuracy
 
Thunder said:
forgive me for saying so, but I am more concerned with terrorist attacks upon the civilian population of the United States, than other places.

our foremost responsibility is to protect the homeland, which Clinton did a good job of doing.
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then why do you keep ignoring the attacks on the civilian pop in oklahoma city and atlanta? :ssst: oopsie
 
OscarB63 said:
then why do you keep ignoring the attacks on the civilian pop in oklahoma city and atlanta? :ssst: oopsie
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you are correct. I should said "our foremost responsibility is to protect the homeland from international & domestic terrorist groups, which Clinton did a good job of doing.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
As I said, if not for Clinton's grotesque negligence and misfeasance, the 9/11 attacks would probably have been prevented.
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Riiiight ... just like had Clinton increased GDP 20 trillion instead of "just" 3 trillion, and had Clinton reduced unemployment to 0% instead of "just" 4%, maybe then the economy wouldn't have melted down under Bush. And maybe if Clinton had nuked Iraq while he was president, maybe Bush wouldn't have taken America to war there over WMD that weren't actually there. :roll:
 
OscarB63 said:
because it ignores all the other terror attacks that happened under clinton. It's like praising the defense of a team that got beat 52 - 0 because they only allowed 1 field goal.
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And you're ignoring all of these terrorist attacks under Bush ... because ... ???


Terrorist Attacks in the U.S. or Against Americans

2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)

2002
June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb explodes outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.

2003
1 May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers kill 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.

2004
May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.

June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks. Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate, killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.

2005
Nov. 9, Amman, Jordan: suicide bombers hit 3 American hotels, Radisson, Grand Hyatt, and Days Inn, in Amman, Jordan, killing 57. Al-Qaeda claimed responsibility.

2006
Sept. 13, Damascus, Syria: an attack by four gunman on the American embassy is foiled.

2007
Jan. 12, Athens, Greece: the U.S. embassy is fired on by an anti-tank missile causing damage but no injuries.

Dec. 11, Algeria: more than 60 people are killed, including 11 United Nations staff members, when Al Qaeda terrorists detonate two car bombs near Algeria's Constitutional Council and the United Nations offices.

2008
May 26, Iraq: a suicide bomber on a motorcycle kills six U.S. soldiers and wounds 18 others in Tarmiya.

June 24, Iraq: a suicide bomber kills at least 20 people, including three U.S. Marines, at a meeting between sheiks and Americans in Karmah, a town west of Baghdad.

June 12, Afghanistan: four American servicemen are killed when a roadside bomb explodes near a U.S. military vehicle in Farah Province.

July 13, Afghanistan: nine U.S.soldiers and at least 15 NATO troops die when Taliban militants boldly attack an American base in Kunar Province, which borders Pakistan. It's the most deadly against U.S. troops in three years.

Aug. 18 and 19, Afghanistan: as many as 15 suicide bombers backed by about 30 militants attack a U.S. military base, Camp Salerno, in Bamiyan. Fighting between U.S. troops and members of the Taliban rages overnight. No U.S. troops are killed.

Sept. 16, Yemen: a car bomb and a rocket strike the U.S. embassy in Yemen as staff arrived to work, killing 16 people, including 4 civilians. At least 25 suspected al-Qaeda militants are arrested for the attack.

Nov. 26, India: in a series of attacks on several of Mumbai's landmarks and commercial hubs that are popular with Americans and other foreign tourists, including at least two five-star hotels, a hospital, a train station, and a cinema. About 300 people are wounded and nearly 190 people die, including at least 5 Americans.​
 
Forever, which is the same length of time that people will blame Hoover for the Great Depression.
 
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