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GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

Is this raffle in extremely bad taste?

  • Yes, the republicans should be ashamed

    Votes: 14 35.0%

  • No, everyone should really just relax

    Votes: 21 52.5%

  • Other, I can't commit to yes or no

    Votes: 5 12.5%
  • Total voters
    40
pbrauer said:
Extremely bad taste, a hunting rifle or a shotgun is one thing, but this murder machine come with 3 magazines.
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Murder machine?
:lol:
Thank you for clearly illustrating your (usual) inability to engage in a reasoned debate.
 
Hatuey said:
The weakness in this argument is that cars weren't invented to run over people. Apples and oranges.
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Just as fire arms weren't invented to murder people.
 
TurtleDude said:
I own dozes, many of which I have won in Glock Leagues. I bought my first one right after scumbag Howard Metzenscum of Ohio started whining about them and lying that they could easily evade a metal detector. They aren't my favorite-of the plastic guns the HK P30 is the best made and the Smith and Wesson MP provides the fastest hit potential of any pistol save a tuned 1911. But they are used by the US Marshalls, the FBI and about half the police in the USA

why-because they work and they are very very easy to learn how to shoot well
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Very good - You win a cookie.
 
mike2810 said:
Neither were hammers, knives, crowbars, baseball bats, rope. The weakness in your rebuttle is you fail to realize humans find a way to use things to kill. But in the context of the debate, I suggested if a raffle was for a car and a large group had been killed by a car, would their be the objection? It is not apple/orange.
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Well said - You forgot one major human killing technique. Marcial Arts.
All the ways and artforms of killing by hand.
One of my favorite is the 'Pulling an eyeball out of it's socket, and tearing it from it's nerves'. All done in the matter of seconds.
Awesome.
 
Karl said:
In that they are rather foolproof and fire in a straight line, they are suitable for the task at hand. Point, squeeze (a long time), bang.


That Glock sponsors a competitive shooting team means absolutely nothing about the quality or desirability of their pistols.
That Glock's 'hired gun' is a better shooter than someone using a competing brand means absolutely nothing.
That the FBI and whomever prefers a foolproof pistol means little other than the Glock's foolproof characteristics (a rubber hammer is rather foolproof as well, but you won't be pounding any nails with it).

When I shot Open Division in USPSA, I didn't see too may Glocks in that division. In fact, I can't recall seeing any, even at the Nationals in Barry IL.
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probably didn't see any SIG 226 or Colt 1911 45's or other superior guns either. when I shot in Open division I was shooting for EAA with a "gold team" 9X21 and later in Limited with a Fred Craig built Para 40. But Glocks do real well in production division. Mounting a C-MOre on a glock isn't the easiest thing due to the nature of the frame. Interesting seeing a "communist" in USPSA. probably as rare as vegetarian anti-hunters shooting in the IBO
 
Karl said:
True, which is why it is pointless to invoke personal claims to fame or experience in lieu of a rational argument. Thus, the anonymous nature of the internet debate precludes any personal posturing, except for that embarked upon for comedic value (or shock value, if you will).
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that isn't always true. sometimes personal claims have obvious relevance

Karl said:
When I shot Open Division in USPSA, I didn't see too may Glocks in that division. In fact, I can't recall seeing any, even at the Nationals in Barry IL.
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dixiesolutions said:
Well said - You forgot one major human killing technique. Marcial Arts.
All the ways and artforms of killing by hand.
One of my favorite is the 'Pulling an eyeball out of it's socket, and tearing it from it's nerves'. All done in the matter of seconds.
Awesome.
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Never did much marcial arts but my family does martial arts-jr has a black belt in TKD, my wife is about to test for red belt and we all compete in another sport that is called a martial art by the US olympic team coach. But the "Kill Bill" bit where the "bride" wastes Darryl Hannah is pretty much worthless from a practical standpoint though gorily entertaining.

My favorite martial arts technique comes from noted street martial artist, Marc "animal" MacYoung and it involves survival in bars. Its called PIB-or Pitcher of Bud. If things are starting to get nasty, you buy a PIB and try to calm down belligerents with a round of beer. if that doesn't work you brain the SOB with the pitcher.
 
TurtleDude said:
probably didn't see any SIG 226 or Colt 1911 45's or other superior guns either. [...]
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All you saw in Open Division were 1911's, but now your argument is reduced to splitting hairs regarding caliber.

TurtleDude said:
[...] when I shot in Open division I was shooting for EAA [...]
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I'm sorry...

TurtleDude said:
[...] and later in Limited with a Fred Craig built Para 40.
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I'm sorry again (I owned a P12-45 Limited once, stock. It was an excellent paperweight. Pretty, even, in stainless).

TurtleDude said:
But Glocks do real well in production division. [...]
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So do Dodge Neons
icon_biggrin_notooth.gif


DodgeNeonSS.jpg

​
 
TurtleDude said:
that isn't always true. sometimes personal claims have obvious relevance
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Only in providing examples of faulty logic, and the occasional chuckle.
 
Karl said:
All you saw in Open Division were 1911's, but now your argument is reduced to splitting hairs regarding caliber.


I'm sorry...


I'm sorry again (I owned a P12-45 Limited once, stock. It was an excellent paperweight. Pretty, even, in stainless).

So do Dodge Neons
icon_biggrin_notooth.gif


DodgeNeonSS.jpg

​
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mostly modified 1911 platforms such as the Dawson built stuff

I was more into open back before the red dot stuff-back in the days where my Wilsom L-E accucomp was competitive in Class A (there was no Master or GM)

I shot next to Todd Jarrett at one of the big invitationals. His Para was doing ok that day

EAA had pretty decent bonuses. the barrels needed replacing every 6000 rounds (ie every month)
 
dixiesolutions said:
Well said - You forgot one major human killing technique. Marcial Arts.
All the ways and artforms of killing by hand.
One of my favorite is the 'Pulling an eyeball out of it's socket, and tearing it from it's nerves'. All done in the matter of seconds.
Awesome.
Click to expand...

I used to know an Angel whose noted fame was for jamming his thumb into an enemy's eye socket. But even he didn't pull it out.

I practice martial arts too but am not into killing. The attorney fees can wipe your family out.
 
American said:
Just as fire arms weren't invented to murder people.
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Lawl? Is this some sort of joke?

Timeline - The History of Guns Rifles and Machine Guns


1232: The Chinese who invented gunpowder (black powder) first used it in a weapon - gunpowder filled tubes aka rockets.
1364: First recorded use of a firearm - shooter lit wicks by hand that ingnited gunpowder that was loaded into the gun barrel.
1400s: Matchlock guns - first mechanically firing of guns. Wicks were now attached to a clamp that sprang into gunpowder that was placed in a "flash pan".
1509: Wheel lock guns - wicks were replaced the wheel lock that generated a spark for igniting the gunpowder.
1630: Flintlock guns - the flintlock did two things mechanically, it opened the lid of the flash pan and provided an igniting spark.
1825: Percussion-cap guns invented by Reverend John Forsyth - firing mechanism no longer uses flash pan, a tube lead straight into the gun barrel, the tupe had an exposive cap on it that exploded when struck
1830: Back action lock
1835: Colt revolver - first mass-produced, multi-shot, revolving firearms
1840: Pin-fire cartridges
1850: Shotguns
1859: Full rim-fire cartridge
1860: Spencer repeating carbine patented
1861: Breech loaded guns
1862: Gatling Gun
1869: Center-fire cartridge
1871: Cartridge revolver
1873: Winchester rifle
1877: Double-action revolver
1879: Lee box magazine patented
1892: Automatic handguns invented by Joseph Laumann
1893: Borchardt pistol - automatic handgun with a separate magazine in the grip
1903: First automatic rifle a Winchester.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matchlock#History

The matchlock appeared in Europe in the mid-15th century, although the idea of the serpentine appears some 40 years previously in an Austrian manuscript. The first dated illustration of a matchlock mechanism dates to 1475, and by the 16th century they were universally used.
The Janissary corps of the Ottoman army adopted matchlock arms from Hungary gradually from the 1440s onwards.[4] Improved versions of the musket were transported to India by Babur in 1526.
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Guns? Invented for the military. What does the military do? Let's just say its primary is not to go looking for turkeys. Try picking up a history book sometime my son, before zee Germans get here.
 
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Hatuey said:
Lawl? Is this some sort of joke?

Timeline - The History of Guns Rifles and Machine Guns


1232: The Chinese who invented gunpowder (black powder) first used it in a weapon - gunpowder filled tubes aka rockets.
1364: First recorded use of a firearm - shooter lit wicks by hand that ingnited gunpowder that was loaded into the gun barrel.
1400s: Matchlock guns - first mechanically firing of guns. Wicks were now attached to a clamp that sprang into gunpowder that was placed in a "flash pan".
1509: Wheel lock guns - wicks were replaced the wheel lock that generated a spark for igniting the gunpowder.
1630: Flintlock guns - the flintlock did two things mechanically, it opened the lid of the flash pan and provided an igniting spark.
1825: Percussion-cap guns invented by Reverend John Forsyth - firing mechanism no longer uses flash pan, a tube lead straight into the gun barrel, the tupe had an exposive cap on it that exploded when struck
1830: Back action lock
1835: Colt revolver - first mass-produced, multi-shot, revolving firearms
1840: Pin-fire cartridges
1850: Shotguns
1859: Full rim-fire cartridge
1860: Spencer repeating carbine patented
1861: Breech loaded guns
1862: Gatling Gun
1869: Center-fire cartridge
1871: Cartridge revolver
1873: Winchester rifle
1877: Double-action revolver
1879: Lee box magazine patented
1892: Automatic handguns invented by Joseph Laumann
1893: Borchardt pistol - automatic handgun with a separate magazine in the grip
1903: First automatic rifle a Winchester.

Matchlock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Guns? Invented for the military. What does the military do? Let's just say its primary is not to go looking for turkeys. Try picking up a history book sometime my son, before zee Germans get here.
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Military actions are not "murder" generally.
 
I had to vote no. Yes, the people holding the gun auction are douchebags, but in America the First Amendment protects douchebags too.
 
danarhea said:
I had to vote no. Yes, the people holding the gun auction are douchebags, but in America the First Amendment protects douchebags too.
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How does one holding a gun raffle a douchebag?



Was it advertised as own the gun that Shot Gifford raffle?
Was it advertised as the Gifford gun raffle?
Was Gifford or Loughner's names used in any shape or form to promote this gun raffle?
Were the raffling the actual gun that Loughner used?

If you can't answer yes to any of these questions then how can you draw the conclusion that the people having a gun raffle are douchebags?

There was nothing in the article to indicate that they were trying to use the victims or murders names to promote the gun raffle and as far as I know the murder weapon is still in the possession of law enforcement. Merely holding a rafle that coicidently happens to be auctioning the same type of firearm that was used in a mass murder does not make any one a douch bag or in poor taste especially when that raffle happens nearly 8 months after the killing spree.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
You don't get it, a Glock is about quality, it's a beautiful gun, a precision insrument. A cheap ass Kalicnikov or however you spell it can kill people too but who wants that piece of crap. By the way a shotgun is arguably the most dealy anti personel gun there is. Seven rounds of 00 Buck, nine 30 cal slugs a piece, do the math.
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Me. Thats why I own an AK.
 
Omgitsme said:
Me. Thats why I own an AK.
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I have several AKs

1) 2 redjacket AK 103 762X39-the best available

2) 2 Redjacket AK 74 545X39-again the best available

3) several ARSENAL (Bulgarian) in 556 NATO-extremely reliable

4) ARSENAL Milled receiver 762X39-traditional AK 47

5) a few Polish Tantals-reliable beaters in 545-Good for the corrosive military stuff

6) Hungarian AKM tanker-very compact-effective muzzle brake

7) Arsenal KRINKOV carbine-compact uber reliable

My redjackets all shoot under 1.2" at 100 yards. Not quite as good as my RRA National Match AR-15 but then again, they are more reliable
 
TurtleDude said:
I have several AKs

1) 2 redjacket AK 103 762X39-the best available

2) 2 Redjacket AK 74 545X39-again the best available

3) several ARSENAL (Bulgarian) in 556 NATO-extremely reliable

4) ARSENAL Milled receiver 762X39-traditional AK 47

5) a few Polish Tantals-reliable beaters in 545-Good for the corrosive military stuff

6) Hungarian AKM tanker-very compact-effective muzzle brake

7) Arsenal KRINKOV carbine-compact uber reliable

My redjackets all shoot under 1.2" at 100 yards. Not quite as good as my RRA National Match AR-15 but then again, they are more reliable
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I really want an AK74 but cannot afford another gun at the moment.

I figure my AK is accurate enough for me especially knowing I only paid 425 for it compared to the 700 or more for an AR15. Although I have never sighted it in so
I have to aim down and to the right a bit to be on target.
 
Omgitsme said:
I really want an AK74 but cannot afford another gun at the moment.

I figure my AK is accurate enough for me especially knowing I only paid 425 for it compared to the 700 or more for an AR15. Although I have never sighted it in so
I have to aim down and to the right a bit to be on target.
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The red jackets are over 1000

about the same as a ROck River AR 15

the ARsenals are in the 800 range

the tantals can be bought now for under 400

The WASR AKs are under 400-cheap but reliable
 
TurtleDude said:
The red jackets are over 1000

about the same as a ROck River AR 15

the ARsenals are in the 800 range

the tantals can be bought now for under 400

The WASR AKs are under 400-cheap but reliable
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Jesus 1000 for an AK? What is different about it compared to the WASR?
 
Omgitsme said:
Jesus 1000 for an AK? What is different about it compared to the WASR?
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far better fit and machining-usually new barrels and internals rather than military surplus-often used. thicker receivers
better triggers with anti backlash provisions.

accuracy is slightly better
 
TurtleDude said:
far better fit and machining-usually new barrels and internals rather than military surplus-often used. thicker receivers
better triggers with anti backlash provisions.

accuracy is slightly better
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Ahhh I see.
 
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