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GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate

Is this raffle in extremely bad taste?


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Bottom line is that if we wish to live in a free society, well crap like this will happen. If we don't wish to live in a free society, well crap like this will still happen. We don't live in a perfect world with perfect people, so we can't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I don't think anyone is saying that it shouldn't happen (I'm certainly not), but rather pointing out the somewhat barbaric and in-your-face confrontational aspects of it. Raising awareness, if you will. Debating the issue will not deter the supporters of stunts like this, nor will it sooth the detractors; the goal is to reach, illuminate, and perhaps convince the so-called silent majority (independents and moderates).

Considering the plethora of in-your-face GOP/Tea Party tactics of late, we'll see how that has worked out for them come November of 2012 (unless they suddenly reverse course or moderate their antics).
 
I'm not even sure who you are... I just happened to catch your little note to me at the bottom of your post. So, as you wish. :: shrug ::

See sig (title, username, avatar, lean and location). Brief CV/resume available at my profile/visitors' messeges.

It's raining. Nothing in the ground but weeds, but it'll keep the dust down.
 
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If so, it's fair to assume your a pedophile and rapist. It has about as much to do with nothing as you flame bait comment. :shrug:

What's not fair about it? Democrats and liberal support groups continue to push programs such as Food Stamps, Welfare, TANF, SNAP, Head Start, SSI, Public Housing Assistance, extended unemployment insurance, WIC, Social Housing Services... and that's just at the federal level. The best welfare program? A JOB. Yet, it's my opinion that overwhelmingly the Democratic and Liberal perspective is to aid those less fortunate which could be seen as a very noble social gesture - in fact it's creating a dependency. I realize that Republicans and Conservatives also support social programs and I myself see benefits to some of these for those who are in temporary need. The key "temporary". Expansion and extension of such benefits are a band aid - what's needed are job training programs and placement programs, not way to live off the system.

What should they do indeed. As I've stated, a certain amount of help should be available - but ultimately people have to plan for disaster themselves instead of relying on social programs. Medicaid is a good thing for a short while. Food stamps can get people over a rough patch, temporarily. Perhaps instead of raising taxes on the rich, liberals may consider an optional "philanthropy" where trusts can be opened where money is distributed to those in who really need it. We need better programs, more targeted at getting people up and working again, retrained and able to benefit society - not more dependent people looking for an extended handout.

What it needs is moderation and common sense.

And what cause is that?

Family. The church. Philanthropy, or better yet, programs will not simply hand out government cheese but retrain and re-equip the poor to be reintroduced to working society. In my opinion there are too many handouts with cries of "oh but the poor children!" It's better to get them fed, get mom or dad or whomever working again to support themselves and their children. Federal Government help and State/ Local help is extensive - even dare I say "vast". Creating new generations of dependent people who will vote for whomever extends their handouts is not a good societal benefit, but it surely is a good political benefit for the political party that increases the government cheese.




I don't really mind, Jerry has his view and I have mine. Overall I'd rather see less poor, less dependency and more people contributing to society, paying taxes and providing for their children than getting bigger and more vast quantities of handouts by any government agency. We address the handout's in spades, we don't address getting these people back onto their feet to provide for themselves.

First of all it wasn't a baiting comment. It was a fairness question. You should spend less time here perhaps.. you're rather quick to jump, eh?
Second, I see NOTHING solid in your post on how we plan on helping people or cleaning up the fallout nor do I see anything that shows HOW we will promote self reliance. You've said all the same things I've heard before. "Church" is nice, but Churches can help NOW. NOTHING says they cant help...clearly "Churches" aren't enough. How many Churches are TX? They dont pay taxes, why are there SO MANY kids without health insurance in TX? Shouldn't their families and "church" help?! How about Mississippi? Of 3 million people over 600 thousand are BELOW poverty level. Hello? "Church"?

You have "ideas" but no SOLID plan. So, good luck with that.
 
Oh yeah, and my pics (tavern members pics II). I'm superhot and my chick is mad gorgeous.
 
I cant see your pics. I'll take your word for it though... I'm sure you're both smokin' hot and make a lovely couple. :eek:)

I'll repost them.


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Crass insensitivity is no stranger to the GOP, or here, it seems.

Faking to care about this to push forward the anti-gun agenda is no stranger to the Democrats, or here, it seems.
 
I'll repost them.

She is lovely! Kenya, eh? Thats pretty cool. I've lived in Hawaii & Germany(child) and ... If I weren't afraid of flying I'd consider relocating... beyond Canada, of course.
I imagine sunset in Kenya is breathtaking.

Anyway, thanks for posting your pictures
 
Moderator's Warning:
Folks, many of you have wandered far astray of the actual topic, and many are bordering on personal attacks. Let's keep it at least somewhat topical, and please refrain from ad-homs and excessive personal snarkiness.
 
I submit a honest answer to your question:

1. Cars are designed, manufactured, and sold with the intent of transporting people. Alternatively, they can occasionally be used in other applications (racing, or as a weapon).

2. Guns are designed, manufactured, and sold with the intent of killing living things. That a particular gun may never be used for that purpose has no bearing on the original intent of the device. Alternatively, they can occasionally be used in other applications (target shooting, or, I presume, to brandish at burglars or muggers {not a recommended activity, I've heard}).

Should we outlaw knives, too?
 
Should we outlaw knives, too?
If you can quote me saying that we should outlaw anything, then we can have a conversation.

In the meantime, enjoy your discussion with your strawman. . . .
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It just happens that they are raffling the same "TYPE" gun that was used in the Gifford's shooting. We must remember that the gun they are raffling is not the SAME gun used in the shooting, let's remember that the individual did it and not the gun, guns don't fire by themselves. It just happens that this particular gun is very popular.

They would make a helluva lot more money, if they raffled the actual pistol that shot Giffords. The rifle that killed Kennedy brought $45,000.
 
If you can quote me saying that we should outlaw anything, then we can have a conversation.

In the meantime, enjoy your discussion with your strawman. . . .
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What's your argument, then?
 
What's your argument, then?
The search function is a wonderful thing....

Bingo, you hit it there. The GOP/Tea Party has been very 'in-your-face' as of late, and this certainly seems to be a premeditated example of it.

[...] The point of the OP, if I may be so bold and if I may return to the original premise of the thread, is that a hi-capacity pistol is a rather odd thing for a political party to be raffling off in order to raise funds, especially in the district where a Congresswoman was recently shot with the same brand and style of firearm. The OP has a valid point. [...]

As was noted earlier, this is likely an intentional provocation by the local GOP. Otherwise they are rather dense (and I doubt that is the case).

I don't think anyone is saying that it shouldn't happen (I'm certainly not), but rather pointing out the somewhat barbaric and in-your-face confrontational aspects of it. Raising awareness, if you will. Debating the issue will not deter the supporters of stunts like this, nor will it sooth the detractors; the goal is to reach, illuminate, and perhaps convince the so-called silent majority (independents and moderates).

Considering the plethora of in-your-face GOP/Tea Party tactics of late, we'll see how that has worked out for them come November of 2012 (unless they suddenly reverse course or moderate their antics).

....if it's still unclear, I'm agreeing with the OP.

GOP's Gun Raffle In Giffords' District Sparks Hot Debate : The Two-Way : NPR
The Pima County (Arizona) Republican Party's decision to raffle off a Glock 23 .40-caliber handgun has generated some sharp criticism because not only is Pima County part of Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' district, but also because the gun used in January to kill six people and wound 13 others, including Giffords, was a Glock.

So a Glock is the only thing they could think of to raffle?!? Really!?! Wouldn't a better choice be something that everyone would want? Oh, and it is insanely insensitive.
 
What's your argument, then?

anything that makes the individual less dependent on the government is anathema to communists?
 
The search function is a wonderful thing....







....if it's still unclear, I'm agreeing with the OP.

So, does that mean you're pro-gun rights, anti-gun rights, or just here to muck up the thread with Left wing crap?
 
There are so many closed minded anti-gun people out there.

Something for those folk to consider, that hate guns and call it the number one weapon for killing another living thing.

The very first killing weapon created by humans was a bladed object. And till today it is the number one choice of a killing weapon.

It's inexpensive, easy to hide/conceal, anyone can get one, and makes no loud noise.

And this question may seem morbid.
But if you were to be confronted by a bad guy, would you prefer to be shot, or have your throat sliced, and stabed in the gut?.
 
So, does that mean you're pro-gun rights, anti-gun rights, or just here to muck up the thread with Left wing crap?
I find it odd that anyone could come to the conclusion that the OP is about gun rights.

Now that a smokescreen of gun rights would be floated as a red herring in order to cover up GOP 'bad behavior', well, I wouldn't find that odd at all :mrgreen:
 
I find it odd that anyone could come to the conclusion that the OP is about gun rights.

Now that a smokescreen of gun rights would be floated as a red herring in order to cover up GOP 'bad behavior', well, I wouldn't find that odd at all :mrgreen:

there is no bad behavior. Just pavlovian reactions from the loony left
 
Where? In this thread? If so, whom?

Otherwise, what is your relevant point?

since you haven't been around much why don't you tell us regulars what exactly your views are on gun issues in the US of A
 
I find it odd that anyone could come to the conclusion that the OP is about gun rights.

Now that a smokescreen of gun rights would be floated as a red herring in order to cover up GOP 'bad behavior', well, I wouldn't find that odd at all :mrgreen:

The OP is all about anti-gun rights. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any concern over the issue.
 
The OP is all about anti-gun rights. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any concern over the issue.
gun ownership causes fear and trembling in some. Usually those who are cowards and project their b incompetence in using weapons onto others. Many cowards hate being reminded of their own failings and seeing other men armed, ready willing and able to make personal security an INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY (rather than something they-like a liberal-outsources to the government) really accentuates the cowards feelings of failure. So they try to ban guns so they won't be reminded of their own deficiencies as men
 
there is no bad behavior. Just pavlovian reactions from the loony left
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but given that it is clearly of the fringe variety (given that "loony left" is a fringe term) I don't think it represents the mainstream. A political party raffling off a cheap handgun in a district where a U.S. Congresswoman (of the opposing party) was recently shot in the head by a cheap handgun is simply crass behavior. Indisputable. That such crass behavior is constitutionally protected makes it no less crass.

The Pavlovian reaction is that of those who react without independent analysis of a specific situation.... for example, a gun club/shooting range raffle of a Glock 23 in such a locale would not be an extraordinary event. Since the usual suspects can be relied upon to defend any type of arms transaction, even including the personal ownership of nuclear weapons (as we are nearly seeing in another thread), the true origin of the Pavlovian reactions are rather clear.
 
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